British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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WE NEED YOU! Jan 17th, 2010 by admin
We need your help to get our message out to the public!
Twenty reasons to still vote YES.
At tomorrow’s Unite meeting, their PR department is compiling a promotional video to distribute to the media, and they would like some input from crew.
This video will go to all union members, to all opinion formers (MPs, analysts etc) and of course, to the media. Of course, we will also distribute it on You Tube and use other viral media outlets to promote it (*******, Facebook etc).
Unite aim to have this produced and out ASAP, but we need crew participation to give it power and authority.
The PR department would like to interview willing crew at tomorrow’s meeting.This is a genuine opportunity for crew to say what the real issues are in this dispute. We need you to tell the world the real truth behind British Airways deliberate misrepresentation of our cabin crew to the general public:
They would like to hear facts around how long you’ve worked for BA - the reality of your job, how much you earn, how long you’re away from home; the birthdays you miss and so forth. What do the changes mean for you and our passengers - and for BA itself, and about how imposition is not the way forward.It would also be really great if we could have crew participate from all fleets at both LHR and Gatwick.
It was clear the last time, that your concerns for the future and our passengers were not being heard...Let’s tell a powerful story.
Secondly, it is very difficult to keep people focused and aware of the dangers we all still face; just because a month has gone by, those dangers are no less real. Naturally people get weary and just want to forget about things and wish it would all just go away; we know how hard it is to keep people focused.Yet we do not have that luxury.
Can you help us?
If you enjoy posting on forums or talking with other crew on union matters, do you think that you could sum up in three short sentences why, more than ever, we still need to vote YES to protect our futures. If you could, then we need you to do just that.
If you want to send a short message that sums up your feelings, please email to:
[email protected]
The twenty best will be printed - anonymously of course - in the leaflet that accompanies our 2010 ballot (Unfortunately, no Blue Peter badges will be available!)
Want to get your voice heard? Now is your chance! But please be quick, we only have a few days to do this.Your help with this will be greatly appreciated by your union and your colleagues.
We need your help to get our message out to the public!
Twenty reasons to still vote YES.
At tomorrow’s Unite meeting, their PR department is compiling a promotional video to distribute to the media, and they would like some input from crew.
This video will go to all union members, to all opinion formers (MPs, analysts etc) and of course, to the media. Of course, we will also distribute it on You Tube and use other viral media outlets to promote it (*******, Facebook etc).
Unite aim to have this produced and out ASAP, but we need crew participation to give it power and authority.
The PR department would like to interview willing crew at tomorrow’s meeting.This is a genuine opportunity for crew to say what the real issues are in this dispute. We need you to tell the world the real truth behind British Airways deliberate misrepresentation of our cabin crew to the general public:
They would like to hear facts around how long you’ve worked for BA - the reality of your job, how much you earn, how long you’re away from home; the birthdays you miss and so forth. What do the changes mean for you and our passengers - and for BA itself, and about how imposition is not the way forward.It would also be really great if we could have crew participate from all fleets at both LHR and Gatwick.
It was clear the last time, that your concerns for the future and our passengers were not being heard...Let’s tell a powerful story.
Secondly, it is very difficult to keep people focused and aware of the dangers we all still face; just because a month has gone by, those dangers are no less real. Naturally people get weary and just want to forget about things and wish it would all just go away; we know how hard it is to keep people focused.Yet we do not have that luxury.
Can you help us?
If you enjoy posting on forums or talking with other crew on union matters, do you think that you could sum up in three short sentences why, more than ever, we still need to vote YES to protect our futures. If you could, then we need you to do just that.
If you want to send a short message that sums up your feelings, please email to:
[email protected]
The twenty best will be printed - anonymously of course - in the leaflet that accompanies our 2010 ballot (Unfortunately, no Blue Peter badges will be available!)
Want to get your voice heard? Now is your chance! But please be quick, we only have a few days to do this.Your help with this will be greatly appreciated by your union and your colleagues.
By the way, MissM, your erudition fails to mask the numerous contradictions in your approach to this debate as has been ably pointed out by HF14 et al. You're fine with no money, you're fine with a tax hike but the imposition of a crew member down is anathema to you to such a great extent that you'll take down the very organisation that pays you the money you don't care about. I confess I'd felt you might be one who could come on here and genuinely, passionately explain the BASSA standpoint but my disappointment was real when I note that your fallback defensive line on this thread is to claim it's anti-CC (and, one presumes, therefore, all views not coincident with yours, and by extrapolation BASSA's, are null and void).
Bar one or two ill-thought out comments on this and the preceding threads (which you'll note are moderated away by the likes of F40 and their colleagues) this is not an anti-CC arena. If you wish to see true vitriol displayed in all it's bile-strewn colours might I suggest you direct your browser to CrewForum and some of the inchoate rantings about flight crew (generic of course, as all us flight crew are identical human beings aren't we?) and ask yourself how that helps the mindset of your community with such things being posted? Not, I suppose that you will and I accept that comment only serves to provide me with catharsis.
MrB
P.S. I've also just noticed that the header image on the BASSA website (public domain) partly consists of a group of (presumably) crew, one wearing a vote yes T-shirt (as provided by a certain CrewForum member), cheering, clapping, whistling and arms raised. I presume this, therefore, is the image BASSA wish to present on the publicly accessible homepage of their website.
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Hi all,
Just wanted to inform you all that the thread (s) relating to "Professional Cabin Crew Panel" have been deleted from the BASSA Forum.
In light of what we as a Union are facing, these thread (s) CANNOT under any circumstances be allowed to continue on your Unions website.
It is considered a joke, is libellous, defamatory, and if not equally more importantly, is blatantly being encouraged by the company, hence the reason for us not allowing it to continue on the forum.
We would like to thank those that defended BASSA in these threads that have started about this subject and as always, WE THANK-YOU, our members, for your continued support of the Union.
As always, and in particular now, IT IS SO APPRECIATED FROM EVERY SINGLE REP THAT IS PROUD TO REPRESENT YOU, OUR LOYAL MEMBERS.
We thank-you for your understading in this matter.
THE MODERATOR
Just wanted to inform you all that the thread (s) relating to "Professional Cabin Crew Panel" have been deleted from the BASSA Forum.
In light of what we as a Union are facing, these thread (s) CANNOT under any circumstances be allowed to continue on your Unions website.
It is considered a joke, is libellous, defamatory, and if not equally more importantly, is blatantly being encouraged by the company, hence the reason for us not allowing it to continue on the forum.
We would like to thank those that defended BASSA in these threads that have started about this subject and as always, WE THANK-YOU, our members, for your continued support of the Union.
As always, and in particular now, IT IS SO APPRECIATED FROM EVERY SINGLE REP THAT IS PROUD TO REPRESENT YOU, OUR LOYAL MEMBERS.
We thank-you for your understading in this matter.
THE MODERATOR
However, I post it not for those reasons but to highlight the "libellous and defamatory" element. Really? Bless. Perhaps the reps might wish to review the content and tone of their newsletters recently and discuss the concept of defamatory amongst themselves before lashing out in such a way.
MrB
Wishing all power and success to the PCCC. A brave and, initially, difficult initiative that deserves to represent the thoughtful, caring and professional crew amongst our ranks.
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The House magazine
Has anyone yet seen the advert that Bassa have put in The House magazine? Its a magazine for MPs and freely available on the internet. This advert is going into the magazine that is due for publication tommorrow (18th January).
I am looking at it , but do not know how to copy it (anyone any ideas?). all I can say is that I am speechless and am very glad I have cancelled my subscription with them.
There is no 'message' in it and I think it's waste of money. Just to give you the 'gist' , it is a plain red background with ' BOMB THREAT HEART ATTACK etc' and just two pictures at the bottom, one of which is the 'Iwo Jima' copy.
Lost for words, do they honestly think this advert can work?
I am looking at it , but do not know how to copy it (anyone any ideas?). all I can say is that I am speechless and am very glad I have cancelled my subscription with them.
There is no 'message' in it and I think it's waste of money. Just to give you the 'gist' , it is a plain red background with ' BOMB THREAT HEART ATTACK etc' and just two pictures at the bottom, one of which is the 'Iwo Jima' copy.
Lost for words, do they honestly think this advert can work?
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Bassa PR video
Bassa has a PR department?!! Now why do I fully expect this proposed video to be a complete own goal? They expect to turn public opinion around 180 degrees with cabin crew saying how hard it is going to work for BA. Can't wait to see it.
Would be hilarious, if it weren't being produced to try to bring down this company.
The only good thing about the strike is that there isn't an intention to strike, merely to send a message to WW. Will they put that in the video?
Would be hilarious, if it weren't being produced to try to bring down this company.
The only good thing about the strike is that there isn't an intention to strike, merely to send a message to WW. Will they put that in the video?
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Minor point,
For those minded to put their two-pennorth worth into the BASSA PR, make sure above all that you are assured 100% of your anonymity as there are some clear and unambiguous rules about speaking about your duties or in a BA capacity in the JPM.
MrB
For those minded to put their two-pennorth worth into the BASSA PR, make sure above all that you are assured 100% of your anonymity as there are some clear and unambiguous rules about speaking about your duties or in a BA capacity in the JPM.
MrB
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The PR department would like to interview willing crew at tomorrow’s meeting.This is a genuine opportunity for crew to say what the real issues are in this dispute. We need you to tell the world the real truth behind British Airways deliberate misrepresentation of our cabin crew to the general public
I'm not sure if I have the words for this. Amazed, flabbergasted (sp?)horrified, appalled, slightly amused. Those are the words that immediately spring to mind. Considering the outcry that approx. 20 CSDs (and an unknown amount of Pursers and Main crew) are suspended at the moment - for issues around inappropriate announcements/comments to customers, I am truly lost for words as to how a union can encourage their members to put their jobs on the line. These crew members who are willing to do the "interview" on tape (going on the Utube) are (possibly) unknowingly putting their jobs at high risk.
For those who have considered commenting on the current issues via the Utube (and who read this forum), I would advice you to stay well clear unless you'd like to be subject for disciplinary action.
In regards to the PCCC. There are no unsolicited emails. Every email address has come from people interested or via friends who think others might be interested. To put it bluntly, how else would we know what your email address is? Most email hosts have a "junk" or "spam" filter on them.
Gg
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Is pprune anti BA crew?
Ok here goes.I have my combat gear on.
I have found myself agreeing with a post by Miss M
The stance here has sometimes been anti crew.
Posters on here have called Ba crew trolley dolly.As I am old and senior I suppose I could take that as a compliment but I choose not to
The same poster has said that ALL Ba crew are off their Christmas card list.No prejudice there then .We are all the same aren't we.Must be, wear the same uniform so no room for difference of opinion.
Then we had the nasty comment"I wouldn't nod to BA crew on the aircraft" Tiramisu gave a dignified reply that never the less She/he would still welcome them on board.
There have been nasty comments which have not helped an intelligent debate.
Miss M has a point.
I have found myself agreeing with a post by Miss M
The stance here has sometimes been anti crew.
Posters on here have called Ba crew trolley dolly.As I am old and senior I suppose I could take that as a compliment but I choose not to
The same poster has said that ALL Ba crew are off their Christmas card list.No prejudice there then .We are all the same aren't we.Must be, wear the same uniform so no room for difference of opinion.
Then we had the nasty comment"I wouldn't nod to BA crew on the aircraft" Tiramisu gave a dignified reply that never the less She/he would still welcome them on board.
There have been nasty comments which have not helped an intelligent debate.
Miss M has a point.
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A Lurker
If friends have forwarded those emails to others whom they know and who might be interested, then that's up to them.
I can understand your concern, though, Lurker. Bassa are looking isolated from not only the rest of the country, Unite, and other BA departments, but also from many of their IFCE colleagues who sense the embarassing calamity that is about to befall their union.
The tax debacle has served to provide them a dress rehearsal of the forthcoming pension negotiations and to demonstrate the ignorance of the reps when it comes to working with other groups. Is there anyone they haven't fallen out with?
Hence the growing success of the PCCC.
I can understand your concern, though, Lurker. Bassa are looking isolated from not only the rest of the country, Unite, and other BA departments, but also from many of their IFCE colleagues who sense the embarassing calamity that is about to befall their union.
The tax debacle has served to provide them a dress rehearsal of the forthcoming pension negotiations and to demonstrate the ignorance of the reps when it comes to working with other groups. Is there anyone they haven't fallen out with?
Hence the growing success of the PCCC.
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The problem seems to be that Bassa and BA have developed an increasingly dysfunctional relationship where Bassa have gained an effective veto over any management input within the department. This happens nowhere else in the industry and I doubt in any other industry.
BA cannot work with a union that officially states it will not negotiate. (And it has).
The PCCC is a clean slate, and with enough support from cabin crew can play a part in representing cabin crew's views, which can only be a good thing for both sides. BA want to have effective staff representation - it makes their job easier. So I'm sure they would work well with the PCCC.
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HiFlyer14
Here we go again! Whenever you don't like something and complain people start asking why you are still doing the job and why not leave because there will be thousands of other people willing to do your job. There are aspects of the job which I do like!
This new tax rate won't have too much impact on us. Our salaries are very different and is so on a monthly basis depending on what destinations you get. I can even remember having almost a £1000 difference from one month to another. Do you honestly think £30 will make a difference?
I disagree with the imposition! Are you not allowed to disagree?
Here we go again! Whenever you don't like something and complain people start asking why you are still doing the job and why not leave because there will be thousands of other people willing to do your job. There are aspects of the job which I do like!
This new tax rate won't have too much impact on us. Our salaries are very different and is so on a monthly basis depending on what destinations you get. I can even remember having almost a £1000 difference from one month to another. Do you honestly think £30 will make a difference?
I disagree with the imposition! Are you not allowed to disagree?
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MissM,
By the looks of things my tax will go up more than £30 a month. Can I afford it? Not really, to be honest. I'm actually fighting really hard to keep my head above water at the moment, and us LGW crew have been hit the hardest with this new tax rate. I will find a way to make it work, but I'm certainly not happy about it.
Gg
By the looks of things my tax will go up more than £30 a month. Can I afford it? Not really, to be honest. I'm actually fighting really hard to keep my head above water at the moment, and us LGW crew have been hit the hardest with this new tax rate. I will find a way to make it work, but I'm certainly not happy about it.
Gg
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£1000 difference?
MissM..
How is it possible that your pay differed from one month to another by £1000?
Is the pay really that unstable on WW? (I assume you are on WW).
That is a lot of money to lose, I would be really upset about it!
How is it possible that your pay differed from one month to another by £1000?
Is the pay really that unstable on WW? (I assume you are on WW).
That is a lot of money to lose, I would be really upset about it!
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MissM, you come across as rather selfish by stating that £30+/month won't be noticed by you when it's quite clear it will impact on many.
Even if it doesn't affect how many t-shirts you can buy, the important principle is that your union didn't do its job.
To me that would be extremely important, given present circumstances.
Even if it doesn't affect how many t-shirts you can buy, the important principle is that your union didn't do its job.
To me that would be extremely important, given present circumstances.
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Two-Tone-Blue
LGW agreed to it in 2005 and in my opinion completely sold themselves down the road. I wouldn't want this to happen at LHR.
Go to LHR and you will see that many flights are leaving with 2 crew less and not only on my previous flights. Not only to those destinations which I mentioned!
Thanks for your diagnosis. I can't remember if this is my 2nd or 3rd diagnosis given to me by another forum member!
I'm sure it will be a good day for those attending. I won't be able to go because I'm taking my mother to the hospital but I'm sure there will be many people present.
Dear MissM, please don't try to confuse different realities. The argument is about whether LHR CC will do what LGW have been doing for 5 years ... one fewer CC, and the CSD does some work. Or have you missed that part of the debate completely?
The "fact" that you had to do 2 trips with 2 CC down over a 2 month timespan is one of those problems that most people on this Planet have to live with. You should perhaps be grateful it only happened twice in 2 months.
You really do suffer from "Footinmouthitis", MissM, and you do your colleagues a great disservice by forever putting forward specious arguments about your "tragic working experiences".
Have a nice day at the racecourse tomorrow ... the forecast is dry but chilly, so wrap up warm and try not to blame BA if you catch a cold.
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MissM,
By the looks of things my tax will go up more than £30 a month. Can I afford it? Not really, to be honest. I'm actually fighting really hard to keep my head above water at the moment, and us LGW crew have been hit the hardest with this new tax rate. I will find a way to make it work, but I'm certainly not happy about it.
By the looks of things my tax will go up more than £30 a month. Can I afford it? Not really, to be honest. I'm actually fighting really hard to keep my head above water at the moment, and us LGW crew have been hit the hardest with this new tax rate. I will find a way to make it work, but I'm certainly not happy about it.
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MissM..
How is it possible that your pay differed from one month to another by £1000?
Is the pay really that unstable on WW? (I assume you are on WW).
That is a lot of money to lose, I would be really upset about it!
How is it possible that your pay differed from one month to another by £1000?
Is the pay really that unstable on WW? (I assume you are on WW).
That is a lot of money to lose, I would be really upset about it!
Obviously it also depends on how much you spend downroute!
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MissM, you come across as rather selfish by stating that £30+/month won't be noticed by you when it's quite clear it will impact on many.
Even if it doesn't affect how many t-shirts you can buy, the important principle is that your union didn't do its job.
To me that would be extremely important, given present circumstances.
Even if it doesn't affect how many t-shirts you can buy, the important principle is that your union didn't do its job.
To me that would be extremely important, given present circumstances.
This is where we are now. If crew have a problem with it they can always send their receipts and hope for a refund. Ask yourself this, how many do you think will do it? Not that many I'd say!
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MissM
This new tax rate won't have too much impact on us.
Your manifestly incompetent union have handed you (I might even say IMPOSED) a pay CUT on you for at least the next FIVE years, and yet it is nothing, nada, zip. Not even worth getting slightly irritated about?
I doubt you speak for the majority of cc on THIS issue, but then BASSA haven't had time to "spin" the inevitable myths around it yet. We are seeing the "there was nothing we could do about it" untruth beginning to gain traction, so this will probably become the party line.
SO - tax rise - no problem.
BUT - when your union fails to negotiate any meaningful changes to help save money, and thereby has new work practices IMPOSED, all hell breaks loose. Even though they will cost you NOTHING in your pay packet.
Even the most head-in-the-sand BASSA drone MUST begin to realise that a union that has just achieved a pay cut equivalent to many times their monthly subs might not have a clue how to conduct business in the real world.
Perhaps they will "wake up and smell the coffee"?
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MissM,
You do contradict yourself frequently. However, there is the option of submitting receipts as of Feb2010. How long do you think it would take for me to get the tax back? Instantly? I doubt it. Months? More likely. Do you think I can ask MrBankManager to wait a few months? No, didn't think so.
My main issue here is how the union failed to negotiate with HMRC. It's disgusting, to be perfectly honest. If you're not that bothered about losing a little bit of money (in your eyes), then I'm astounded.
By the way, the increment in our pay was supposed to deal with inflation, not the increase of tax levels.
Gg
You do contradict yourself frequently. However, there is the option of submitting receipts as of Feb2010. How long do you think it would take for me to get the tax back? Instantly? I doubt it. Months? More likely. Do you think I can ask MrBankManager to wait a few months? No, didn't think so.
My main issue here is how the union failed to negotiate with HMRC. It's disgusting, to be perfectly honest. If you're not that bothered about losing a little bit of money (in your eyes), then I'm astounded.
By the way, the increment in our pay was supposed to deal with inflation, not the increase of tax levels.
Gg
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Losing £30 a month is easy - for someone as MissM - an old contract 1995 stewardess - with a basic which today is around £28 000 - how much are you clearing every month - around £3000? Think about the new crew - which are starting at £11 000 a year - for them it's not easy to lose £30 a month!