British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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HiFlyer
do you have a website. or email address?
do you have a website. or email address?
Yes!
The Professional Cabin Crew Council now have a website:
www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
and our email address is [email protected]
Please spread the word to vote no, save our company, save our jobs and restore the badly damaged reputation of our cabin crew community.
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own view and not that of BA.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Hmmm,
I haven't read every post but what I have read encourages me. Most of you seem to have a good grasp of the situation (and I don't mean that patronizingly) In fact most of us have faith that this is so but it's nice to see evidence of it.
I wanted to say that I hoped that you didn't think our volunteering to work as CC is in any way personal, and that in the main we do have a great deal of respect for you all....but I'm not sure that's really necessary.
regards
I haven't read every post but what I have read encourages me. Most of you seem to have a good grasp of the situation (and I don't mean that patronizingly) In fact most of us have faith that this is so but it's nice to see evidence of it.
I wanted to say that I hoped that you didn't think our volunteering to work as CC is in any way personal, and that in the main we do have a great deal of respect for you all....but I'm not sure that's really necessary.
regards
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HiFlyer14,
Congratulations on the website. It doesn't look like it was put together in a mad rush at all. I might have given the idea of the PCCC some credibility but the website? No. The fact that the Myths About Voting Yes 'news' item reads like a Bill Francis ESS message does not engage me at all I'm afraid and nor does the 'Flyer 2' news item that 'imagines' that accepting a monthly travel payment in exchange for accepting the new crewing levels is sufficient to be secure in the knowledge that New Fleet would not affect our future pay.
Perhaps you could extend your 'imaginings' to consider what the next few years would look like as New Fleet develops? How would you negotiate the wind down of the current fleets. What would PCCC be seeking from BA regarding route transfer etc. Or does your position stop, coincidentally, at the same point as BA's?
Congratulations on the website. It doesn't look like it was put together in a mad rush at all. I might have given the idea of the PCCC some credibility but the website? No. The fact that the Myths About Voting Yes 'news' item reads like a Bill Francis ESS message does not engage me at all I'm afraid and nor does the 'Flyer 2' news item that 'imagines' that accepting a monthly travel payment in exchange for accepting the new crewing levels is sufficient to be secure in the knowledge that New Fleet would not affect our future pay.
Perhaps you could extend your 'imaginings' to consider what the next few years would look like as New Fleet develops? How would you negotiate the wind down of the current fleets. What would PCCC be seeking from BA regarding route transfer etc. Or does your position stop, coincidentally, at the same point as BA's?
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Finnster.
To be fair to cabin crew most are afraid to speak out against BASSA.So they stick with the strength for the sake of it .When you ask crew why the union are taking IA they realy can't tell you what it's all about.
To be fair to cabin crew most are afraid to speak out against BASSA.So they stick with the strength for the sake of it .When you ask crew why the union are taking IA they realy can't tell you what it's all about.
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Classic from "Doglover" over on BF
Bassa are saying we should not tar all the flightcrew with the same brush. Why Not?? I dont mean be nasty its not in our nature. Just take away the niceties they have come to expect.
No first/club food
No First mugs (where the @?$% has that come from anyway?) etc etc
When they ask why tell them beacuse they arent putting enough pressure on their SCAB colleagues.
No first/club food
No First mugs (where the @?$% has that come from anyway?) etc etc
When they ask why tell them beacuse they arent putting enough pressure on their SCAB colleagues.
Great, and when WE ask if our other half can use their rest-seats or get on the crew bus to the hotel, what do you think THEY will say? What will you do with your nearest and dearest? Sneaky clingon upgrades when the Flight Deck door is closed? Ah, but we've hacked off the pilots so much they come out to "check" the numbers in each cabin.
This benefits no-one. Very short-sighted.
P.S With managers, pilots, TRM's, engineers (all being confirmed on BF) as having courses to work as crew, aren't you militants getting the message as to what other groups think of THIS strike over THESE issues in the current financial climate? Add to that that return of the temps and the fact that you need to multiply BASSA's estimate of 216 volunteers being trained by at least 10 (trust me
) and you must surely see that BASSA's loss is inevitable and that if you strike you have already been replaced. Once again, don't say you weren't warned. 
P.P.S Caught some of our less intelligent number booing and hissing "Scab" at pilots doing their door drills in SEP last week. They were doing they mandatory SEP renewal, NOT Cabin Crew courses. Nothing like intimidating, bullying and harassing......the wrong people. I despair!
You will damage our reputation for years.
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Hi Boondocker,
Thanks. We have been inundated with support for our website in the short time since it has gone live. We also listen to feedback, and have now added a links page, so that even more factual information can be read. www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
Our website is based on facts and our passionate belief that business can be conducted more effectively with a better outcome for all. If you have any facts to refute this, by all means we will happily debate the subject.
[email protected]
Thanks. We have been inundated with support for our website in the short time since it has gone live. We also listen to feedback, and have now added a links page, so that even more factual information can be read. www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
Our website is based on facts and our passionate belief that business can be conducted more effectively with a better outcome for all. If you have any facts to refute this, by all means we will happily debate the subject.
[email protected]
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Boondocker
The PCC have barely begun. However, they have already identified that by working WITH BA, rather than against them, they should be able to secure some of the protections (variable allowances etc) you allude to.
"We accept the need for some change but we have concerns that we'd like to address. How can we help you with your savings, whilst we protect the livelihoods of current and future crew?"
Seems a far better start than....
"No we won't look at the books (they're all doctored anyway), we want the same as the Flight Deck we detest, no is the answer what is the question?"
And the proof is in the pudding. Look at the "cushy" deals the pilots and engineers "got away with" by working WITH BA. The benefit of hindsight eh?
BASSA has long outlived it's usefulness to our community.
The PCC have barely begun. However, they have already identified that by working WITH BA, rather than against them, they should be able to secure some of the protections (variable allowances etc) you allude to.
"We accept the need for some change but we have concerns that we'd like to address. How can we help you with your savings, whilst we protect the livelihoods of current and future crew?"
Seems a far better start than....
"No we won't look at the books (they're all doctored anyway), we want the same as the Flight Deck we detest, no is the answer what is the question?"
And the proof is in the pudding. Look at the "cushy" deals the pilots and engineers "got away with" by working WITH BA. The benefit of hindsight eh?
BASSA has long outlived it's usefulness to our community.
Boondocker,
If you just read the PCCC website you would see:
If you just read the PCCC website you would see:
We are cabin crew who see the need to collaborate with BA, negotiate and work in partnership with them towards a better future for all of us.
When we have established enough support for PCCC, we will ask BA for voluntary recognition of the PCCC. We are sure that by demonstrating a new, positive approach and by showing that we have a large number of interested crew members, BA will be happy to work together with us.
No first/club food
No First mugs (where the @?$% has that come from anyway?) etc etc
When they ask why tell them beacuse they arent putting enough pressure on their SCAB colleagues.
Great, and when WE ask if our other half can use their rest-seats or get on the crew bus to the hotel, what do you think THEY will say? What will you do with your nearest and dearest? Sneaky clingon upgrades when the Flight Deck door is closed? Ah, but we've hacked off the pilots so much they come out to "check" the numbers in each cabin.
This benefits no-one. Very short-sighted.
No First mugs (where the @?$% has that come from anyway?) etc etc
When they ask why tell them beacuse they arent putting enough pressure on their SCAB colleagues.
Great, and when WE ask if our other half can use their rest-seats or get on the crew bus to the hotel, what do you think THEY will say? What will you do with your nearest and dearest? Sneaky clingon upgrades when the Flight Deck door is closed? Ah, but we've hacked off the pilots so much they come out to "check" the numbers in each cabin.
This benefits no-one. Very short-sighted.
Re FD/CC, think Mama's song in Chicago
YouTube - Chicago - When You're Good To Mama
p.s. please don't wreck BA.
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PCC website
Hiflyer et al,
Good job on the website, it free for all to see and read unlike the "truth" allegedly posted on the BASSA and CF sites.
If you are not planning on your own discussion board how about a link to PPRUNE so those CC who want to can see that there is a free and open discussion site where all sides of the argument are heard?
All the best
Good job on the website, it free for all to see and read unlike the "truth" allegedly posted on the BASSA and CF sites.
If you are not planning on your own discussion board how about a link to PPRUNE so those CC who want to can see that there is a free and open discussion site where all sides of the argument are heard?
All the best
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Mr Bernoulli,
Yes, I know all of that. Would one of the PCCC supporters like to provide some thoughts on the future once the 'acceptable and decent' monthly travel payment is accepted albeit it an 'imagined' future?
Yes, I know all of that. Would one of the PCCC supporters like to provide some thoughts on the future once the 'acceptable and decent' monthly travel payment is accepted albeit it an 'imagined' future?
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Boondocker - and what imagined future do you perceive when your BASSA rep colleagues have bled a once great company dry?
Perhaps, horror of all horrors, the PCCC may have a dream of representing their members views with regards to future plans (and hence waiting for an increase in membership before formulating them). After all that is what Union's are supposed to do - but then as an ex member of BASSA I know how utterly impossible it is not to toe the Union line without being ripped apart by the reps and militant members - don't try and tell me it is any different, my memory isn't that bad yet.
Perhaps, horror of all horrors, the PCCC may have a dream of representing their members views with regards to future plans (and hence waiting for an increase in membership before formulating them). After all that is what Union's are supposed to do - but then as an ex member of BASSA I know how utterly impossible it is not to toe the Union line without being ripped apart by the reps and militant members - don't try and tell me it is any different, my memory isn't that bad yet.
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Boondocker, you miss the point. The idea of the PCC is to totally change the WAY in which CC are represented in BA. They are not asking to get "elected" on a particular mandate with a specific list of "goals".
That is precisely the mindset that has got BASSA into the cul-de-sac they find themselves in. By drawing specific "lines in the sand" and refusing to consider negotiation over said lines, they have made themselves an obstacle to be overcome.
The PCC approach, as I read it, is to take a collaborative approach. Nobody knows where the next "challenge" to aviation is going to come from, so it is pointless to make promises to the CC community about what will and won't be achieved in future negotiations. What CAN be promised is that the membership will be fully consulted and it's opinions solicited before a negotiating position is decided.
Do people want a pay cut or freeze? What are they prepared to sacrifice to achieve their objective? Do they want a more prominent onboard security role? For more money or to give up some other function? etc, etc. These are just a few of the issues that MAY crop up in the future.
It is true to say that, invalid on-line polls aside, BASSA is simply not interested in the opinions of it's members, and simply pushes it's own agenda. A more collaborative approach will be a breath of fresh air, but it is unreasonable to make the PCC hostages to fortune by asking them to make firm commitments in such a volatile industry.
That is precisely the mindset that has got BASSA into the cul-de-sac they find themselves in. By drawing specific "lines in the sand" and refusing to consider negotiation over said lines, they have made themselves an obstacle to be overcome.
The PCC approach, as I read it, is to take a collaborative approach. Nobody knows where the next "challenge" to aviation is going to come from, so it is pointless to make promises to the CC community about what will and won't be achieved in future negotiations. What CAN be promised is that the membership will be fully consulted and it's opinions solicited before a negotiating position is decided.
Do people want a pay cut or freeze? What are they prepared to sacrifice to achieve their objective? Do they want a more prominent onboard security role? For more money or to give up some other function? etc, etc. These are just a few of the issues that MAY crop up in the future.
It is true to say that, invalid on-line polls aside, BASSA is simply not interested in the opinions of it's members, and simply pushes it's own agenda. A more collaborative approach will be a breath of fresh air, but it is unreasonable to make the PCC hostages to fortune by asking them to make firm commitments in such a volatile industry.
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Hard Liners
When you read through the thread, it would seem the majority view is that the blame for this situation lays at the feet of the BASSA reps and a core of hard liners. Would anybody like to venture a guess on the size of this so called militant group?
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My rule of thumb goes: - 10 or 15% (motivated vocal) can influence the whole (apathetic, mostly silent) to their adjenda with relative ease and minimal initial resistance which decreases over time.
Just my observations over the years, I dont claim it as "Snas' Law"
Having said that though, I might...
Just my observations over the years, I dont claim it as "Snas' Law"
Having said that though, I might...
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HiFlyer:
A nice start with the website. I particularly liked having pertinent documents posted in their entirety.
I will continue to watch PCCC's progress with interest and wish you luck with your rather positive endeavor.
A nice start with the website. I particularly liked having pertinent documents posted in their entirety.
I will continue to watch PCCC's progress with interest and wish you luck with your rather positive endeavor.