British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Originally Posted by kirkukk
If you faced evacuation on a flight, who would you entrust to get you out safely. BA CC or Low Cost Airline.
Also I'm sure the Loco crew/FD reading this won't appreciate you calling them monkeys.
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ottergirl
If you can't even answer that basic question, you really are up s61t creek!
We're all going to hell in a handcart!
I'm not sure UNITE even know what winning will look like
We're all going to hell in a handcart!
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"At this stressful time, it’s worth repeating an old clich� - “it is better to die on your feet than live on your knees”."
At last, something from a Union that holds a grain of truth and a warning - well, the first part of the quote anyway .........................................
At last, something from a Union that holds a grain of truth and a warning - well, the first part of the quote anyway .........................................
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If you faced evacuation on a flight, who would you entrust to get you out safely. BA CC or Low Cost Airline.
At BA there can be an attitude of we are the best, or BA does it best with no comparison or evidence.
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"If you faced evacuation on a flight, who would you entrust to get you out safely. BA CC or Low Cost Airlin"
I think it is rather insulting to suggest the low cost carriers and other airlines could not manage an emergency evacuation as well as BA cabin crew can.
There is no evidence that is true so please do not spout out such rubbish-it's offensive to fellow colleagues who do the same job but in other airlines for less pay.
The LCC's have very high standards towards safety. The above statement says a lot.
A
I think it is rather insulting to suggest the low cost carriers and other airlines could not manage an emergency evacuation as well as BA cabin crew can.
There is no evidence that is true so please do not spout out such rubbish-it's offensive to fellow colleagues who do the same job but in other airlines for less pay.
The LCC's have very high standards towards safety. The above statement says a lot.
A
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If my experience of crew reaction is representative, then there will be a very poor turn out for this strike. The disbelief that their bluff is finally being called is palpable, and their fear of the consequences of their actions is profound.
In a way I feel sorry for them - they were sold this ballot on the promise that it would bring WW to the table or to his knees. The worst that most cc are guilty of is that they believed their union. They are the cannon fodder who are going to pay the price for their leader's vainglorious attempt to resurrect the "glory days" of union dominance. That is the fate of cannon fodder in all confrontations.
Because the real villain of the piece is BASSA. They have wrapped themselves in the Stars and Stripes, the Union Jack and even the Star of David, any flag of convenience, to try and dress up this grubby power struggle as some sort of moral crusade. No level of sophistry was beneath them as they misrepresented the true nature of this confrontation to their union members. When those members have paid the price, they will be Stalin-esque in their indifference. I can see the communique now - "it was a fight worth fighting, and we grieve for our fallen comrades" etc.
Sickening. The only remaining question is how may cc will be sacrificed in this futile struggle? This airline will look VERY different by the end of January, and in a years time cc will fondly remember the generous rostering (and pay) they used to enjoy.
It didn't have to be this way, and I am genuinely sorry that those who (sensibly) come to work as normal, whilst they will probably keep their jobs, will inevitably suffer the consequences of BASSA's folly.
Like I said - cannon fodder.
In a way I feel sorry for them - they were sold this ballot on the promise that it would bring WW to the table or to his knees. The worst that most cc are guilty of is that they believed their union. They are the cannon fodder who are going to pay the price for their leader's vainglorious attempt to resurrect the "glory days" of union dominance. That is the fate of cannon fodder in all confrontations.
Because the real villain of the piece is BASSA. They have wrapped themselves in the Stars and Stripes, the Union Jack and even the Star of David, any flag of convenience, to try and dress up this grubby power struggle as some sort of moral crusade. No level of sophistry was beneath them as they misrepresented the true nature of this confrontation to their union members. When those members have paid the price, they will be Stalin-esque in their indifference. I can see the communique now - "it was a fight worth fighting, and we grieve for our fallen comrades" etc.
Sickening. The only remaining question is how may cc will be sacrificed in this futile struggle? This airline will look VERY different by the end of January, and in a years time cc will fondly remember the generous rostering (and pay) they used to enjoy.
It didn't have to be this way, and I am genuinely sorry that those who (sensibly) come to work as normal, whilst they will probably keep their jobs, will inevitably suffer the consequences of BASSA's folly.
Like I said - cannon fodder.
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At BA there can be an attitude of we are the best, or BA does it best with no comparison or evidence.
I am furious with my colleagues Union who will financially impact the rest of us. I think BASSA leadership hoodwinked their membership into voting for a preposterously unproportional strike. Many crew are now quite worried about the position you have placed them in and I doubt your strike pay will appease them.
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I assume there is a legal minimum number of CC per number of passengers, or cabin size. In times of recession anything above that minimum number must be seen as a luxury (or would be in any other industry). Where do the current and future proposed BA staffing levels sit in that equation?
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kirkukk
If you faced evacuation on a flight, who would you entrust to get you out safely. BA CC or Low Cost Airline.
If you faced evacuation on a flight, who would you entrust to get you out safely. BA CC or Low Cost Airline.
I am just trying to make my own opinion, and saw WW statement:
"Average earnings for cabin services directors are £56,000 on long-haul and £52,000 on short-haul. For junior crew, they are £35,000 and £26,000 respectively."
Is that true???? I can't believe it. 35k for junior LH cc? I am not kidding, i can't believe it AT ALL. And these people are not happy???
I hope this is not true, or these people are living in another galaxy
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Ottergirl is the only one who seems to be able to post anything sensible on here!
There is absolutely no mileage or point-scoring to be gained by dissing BA Crew or Lo-Cost Carriers' crew. Basically, if the CAA (or the country of registration's aviation authority) didn't think crew were up to the job, they wouldn't let 'em fly - end of argument!
Similarly, there's absolutely nothing to be gained by dissing the unions or the management - it takes two to tango and both sides need to be encouraged to get back to dialogue before we take the Road to Hell!
So please keep the conversation civil - everyone is entitled to an opinion, and to have that opinion respected! Unfair name-calling has no usefulness whatsoever!
There is absolutely no mileage or point-scoring to be gained by dissing BA Crew or Lo-Cost Carriers' crew. Basically, if the CAA (or the country of registration's aviation authority) didn't think crew were up to the job, they wouldn't let 'em fly - end of argument!
Similarly, there's absolutely nothing to be gained by dissing the unions or the management - it takes two to tango and both sides need to be encouraged to get back to dialogue before we take the Road to Hell!
So please keep the conversation civil - everyone is entitled to an opinion, and to have that opinion respected! Unfair name-calling has no usefulness whatsoever!
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Please bear in mind these are averages!
Is that true???? I can't believe it. 35k for junior LH cc? I am not kidding, i can't believe it AT ALL. And these people are not happy???
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If you have voted yes, and are now beginning to realise what this Union is about, then feel free to cut and paste the following resignation letter that I have sent. Can't find an email address for Mr McCluskey - any help??
Quote:
Mr Len McCluskey
Unite
35 King Street
Covent Garden
London
WC2E 8JG
Dear Mr McCluskey,
Please accept my resignation from the union Unite. I am resigning due to the deplorable actions and stance that this Union has taken over the past 9 months.
Despite there being the biggest world recession on since World War II, the union have dismissed the need to make savings for BA. BA have been reasonable in every manner. They have not made compulsory redundancies, they have not imposed pay cuts, and they have not forcibly reduced our working hours. But still Unite refuses to co-operate and meet them in the middle.
The ballot paper was completely unnecessary. You had the opportunity to negotiate a decent monthly payment which would have secured our position against New Fleet. You didn’t do that. You had the opportunity to ask all the members what they wanted, but you didn’t do that either. You have, in 9 months, achieved absolutely nothing for us but instead you have now enormous worry and anxiety to the lives of millions of customers and thousands of employees.
Now, on top of the anxiety, you are putting us to immense public shame. You claim that we are the best cabin crew in the world. We are not. Try Singapore, Cathay, Emirates to name but a few. You claim that you are concerned about the passenger service. Well, they’re not passengers, they’re customers. And where is your fickle concern when families will be apart this Christmas due to your selfish actions?
I love my job, I love working for BA but I abhor the Union and the negative, militant, selfish attitude that it inflicts on our community.
I hope that you feel proud of the shame that you have brought on our once great community, along with the financial damage that you are now causing to our once great airline.
Unions are supposed to save jobs; what will you say to the 50,000 BA employees worldwide when you and your despicable actions are the cause of this company going bankrupt?
Yours sincerely,
Quote:
Mr Len McCluskey
Unite
35 King Street
Covent Garden
London
WC2E 8JG
Dear Mr McCluskey,
Please accept my resignation from the union Unite. I am resigning due to the deplorable actions and stance that this Union has taken over the past 9 months.
Despite there being the biggest world recession on since World War II, the union have dismissed the need to make savings for BA. BA have been reasonable in every manner. They have not made compulsory redundancies, they have not imposed pay cuts, and they have not forcibly reduced our working hours. But still Unite refuses to co-operate and meet them in the middle.
The ballot paper was completely unnecessary. You had the opportunity to negotiate a decent monthly payment which would have secured our position against New Fleet. You didn’t do that. You had the opportunity to ask all the members what they wanted, but you didn’t do that either. You have, in 9 months, achieved absolutely nothing for us but instead you have now enormous worry and anxiety to the lives of millions of customers and thousands of employees.
Now, on top of the anxiety, you are putting us to immense public shame. You claim that we are the best cabin crew in the world. We are not. Try Singapore, Cathay, Emirates to name but a few. You claim that you are concerned about the passenger service. Well, they’re not passengers, they’re customers. And where is your fickle concern when families will be apart this Christmas due to your selfish actions?
I love my job, I love working for BA but I abhor the Union and the negative, militant, selfish attitude that it inflicts on our community.
I hope that you feel proud of the shame that you have brought on our once great community, along with the financial damage that you are now causing to our once great airline.
Unions are supposed to save jobs; what will you say to the 50,000 BA employees worldwide when you and your despicable actions are the cause of this company going bankrupt?
Yours sincerely,
Otherwise, I am sure easyJet or Ryanair are so grateful to M.McCluskey. His last statement is totally ridiculous and arguments very poor. If I compare it and WW statement, for sure I am giving a bigger credit to WW.
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Please bear in mind these are averages!
Quote:
Is that true???? I can't believe it. 35k for junior LH cc? I am not kidding, i can't believe it AT ALL. And these people are not happy???
Quote:
Is that true???? I can't believe it. 35k for junior LH cc? I am not kidding, i can't believe it AT ALL. And these people are not happy???
It also begs the question, if £35K is the average for junior LH crew, and the lowliest paid is on about £22K, what do those "juniors" on the highest tiers get?
Bearing in mind that our guyys in the Terminals earn £15K on starting and rising to the top level of about £22K after 7 years, this could cause a real division between the.departments!
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Vino Collapso
I can only answer for Eurofleet flights but the new crewing levels start at the legal minimum e.g. 3 on an A319 for 128 customers. 4 on an A320 for 152 customers.
These crew numbers increase proportionate to the amount of required work in an expected flight time. Club pax get more service so it needs more crew as the Club load goes up or the flight time goes down. So on a 45 minute flight to CDG there's about 25 minutes service time. Multiply that by the number of crew, say four, divide again by the number of pax and thats how much service each customer gets. So on a fictitious CDG (a full A320) an average pax get 4 x 25= 100 minutes divided by 152 - about 0.6 of a minute each. But Club pax really need at least double that each, so the amount of time left for Euro traveller has to be reduced proportionately or the amount of crew increased.
Is any of this making sense?
You can see why we are not amused if anyone has a heart attack on the CDG!! There just isnt time! Only joking but it does demonstrate how tight the margins are.
I assume there is a legal minimum number of CC per number of passengers, or cabin size. In times of recession anything above that minimum number must be seen as a luxury (or would be in any other industry). Where do the current and future proposed BA staffing levels sit in that equation?
These crew numbers increase proportionate to the amount of required work in an expected flight time. Club pax get more service so it needs more crew as the Club load goes up or the flight time goes down. So on a 45 minute flight to CDG there's about 25 minutes service time. Multiply that by the number of crew, say four, divide again by the number of pax and thats how much service each customer gets. So on a fictitious CDG (a full A320) an average pax get 4 x 25= 100 minutes divided by 152 - about 0.6 of a minute each. But Club pax really need at least double that each, so the amount of time left for Euro traveller has to be reduced proportionately or the amount of crew increased.
Is any of this making sense?
You can see why we are not amused if anyone has a heart attack on the CDG!! There just isnt time! Only joking but it does demonstrate how tight the margins are.
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Bearing in mind that our guyys in the Terminals earn £15K on starting and rising to the top level of about £22K after 7 years, this could cause a real division between the.departments!
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic
are these statements true ?
'When easyJet flies from Gatwick to Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt, its cabin crew stay for no more than an hour before coming back; when BA flies the same route, the crew get two or three nights, on full pay and while staying in a five-star hotel, to enjoy the Red Sea coast.
'When easyJet flies from Gatwick to Sharm el Sheikh in Egypt, its cabin crew stay for no more than an hour before coming back; when BA flies the same route, the crew get two or three nights, on full pay and while staying in a five-star hotel, to enjoy the Red Sea coast.
Oddly, none of our CC moan about it either. Hmm.
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kirkukk
'If you faced evacuation on a flight, who would you entrust to get you out safely. BA CC or Low Cost Airline.'
I can assure you kirkukk, having worked in the charter business for many years that BA was never considered a superior outfit. Indeed, in many respects it was seen as inferior especially in the cabin. This from cc who had worked with both.
'If you faced evacuation on a flight, who would you entrust to get you out safely. BA CC or Low Cost Airline.'
I can assure you kirkukk, having worked in the charter business for many years that BA was never considered a superior outfit. Indeed, in many respects it was seen as inferior especially in the cabin. This from cc who had worked with both.