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Not a pleasant flight

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Not a pleasant flight

Old 18th May 2009, 18:13
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
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I don't know about flybe but many airlines permit mobile phones to be switched on during the flight as long as they have been switched to flight mode (they still need to be switched off for take-off and landing).

Unfortunately, there is no way for cabin crew to tell easily if the phone is on flight mode or not and if there is no specific reason there is no way how crew could check every phone.

I personally disagree with the policy and think they should be all switched off. Makes it easier and safer for everyone. But I'm not making these decisions so the only thing left to do is to only check if I spot or hear something that gives me an idea that the phone might be not in flight mode.
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Old 19th May 2009, 12:54
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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A few years ago I was part of a group on a 'guided tour' of BA at Heathrow. Of the various briefings that stick in my mind one appropriate to this topic must be 'Cabins are maintained to a standard such that a passenger entering an aircraft should not know whether they are in the oldest or newest aircraft in the fleet'.
I know you can take that two ways, (one of us did and had to buy the drinks at lunch ) but I think generally they maintain the expected high standard, even on the 'old' 737s which are now my chariot of choice. And thanks to the crews too, not only for the champagne.

(Now can I have my upgrade .... please?)
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Old 19th May 2009, 19:01
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
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On one flight I was on I asked to see the CSD and told him one of his colleagues needed a break. Didn't say anything else, just left it there. Didn't see her again for the rest of the flight. As I disembarked she stopped me, grinned, and said 'thank you'. Anyone can have a bad day.
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Old 19th May 2009, 22:55
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I've had a couple (not many) of flights where maybe one of the CC was really unpleasant but I guess, as already said, anyone can have a bad day. I have never reported it and never would unless things got really out of hand. Now, if it was an issue concerning safety.......
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Old 20th May 2009, 19:46
  #25 (permalink)  
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'I am still amazed that when you pay less to fly than just about any other mode of transport that people still expect 1950's BOAC service from Cabin Crew. I regularly fly Spain to UK on Ryan, EasyJet, Monarch, Air Berlin, BA etc. I expect no more service than I would get on a bus or long distance coach.
I recently flew Spain to UK to San Francisco to Auckland to Christchurch to Auckland to Brisbane to Perth to Singapore to UK to Spain stopping over at all destinations cost 1300 or 130 a leg to go around the world. No doubt if I had tried and used different destinations I could have done it cheaper.
"Simples" you get what you pay for. Cheap and often not so cheerful or spend out and go First or Business.'

Sorry. I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
I don't expect BOAC 1950's service on a 25 minute flight from GLA to BHD.
A paid for snack and bar service is normally provided on this route.
Even on 'a bus or long distance coach' I think you would be a little peeved if someone hurled a seat belt buckle with force on to the seat beside you and banged things around deliberately loudly above your head.
The flights were booked just under two weeks before travel and the return fare per person was 119. Not that cheap really.
Even if I was so inclined there aren't any business or first class seats available between GLA and BHD.
On Monday Mrs FF and I flew to Stansted from BHD with Ryanair, returning yesterday (Tuesday evening).
Once again a paid for snack and bar service but on both occasions delivered by friendly smiling cabin crew. That's all I ask.
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Old 20th May 2009, 23:33
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Thumbs up

FrequentFlyer2

Have you tried closing the lockers on the Dash? They're awful, and more often than not, you have to bang them shut so that they stay shut - as you saw one came open - common occurrence on the dash.
Having catering removed from the aircraft is a pain in the ass, especially when it is last minute. There is a lot of paperwork that needs to be done to accompany the bars when they are removed from the aircraft, and at short notice it is extra stress - especially when it is a manual bar and there are no computers on board.
I doubt that the crew member would have been purposely stomping up and down the cabin - the floors are pretty hollow underneath and so that can make a difference to the sound of someone walking up and down the cabin in heels as opposed to flat shoes.
I also very much doubt that the crew would have had fish and chips. Maybe it was a fellow passenger who had some kind of hot food that they had purchased in the terminal? It is a rareity to have the chance to get off the aircraft on turnaround to get food, and more often than not it would be a sandwich as opposed to hot food, as not everywhere in airport terminals do take away hot food.
As for the mobile phone - it should be switched off. Why he wasn't told - I don't know. Maybe he was told, but was so drunk he didn't understand? It may have been that he seemed fine upon boarding - once you are airborne, the altitude can enhance the effects of alcohol very quickly, thus making him seem more drunk.
If the boarding music is too loud, then please don't hesitate to ask for it to be turned down. Most of us dislike it, but have no choice about playing it. And also it's difficult to gauge how loud it is in the cabin when you're stood next to an open door with lots of aircraft noise blocking it out.
As you also mentioned, your flight was two hours late. It's a possibility that the crew had had their duty extended. There has been disruption recently, and they have been doing this to people, and when you're tired and have been working hard, haven't seen your family/friends, have had to cancel plans, it does annoy you. Especially when you don't get any thanks for working over. We have to suffer the delays and sit in the airport too. A lot of the time, when there are delays, passengers are rude towards cabin crew, even though the delay is not personally our fault, passengers treat it as if it is. It could be weather or technical problems, something that is out of our hands. When you're trying to be nice to people, and all you get back is rudeness, it's very demoralising and makes you wonder why you bother in the first place.
I hope this answers some of your questions and makes you see things from a different perspective. And I hope that next time, you have a much better flight
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Old 21st May 2009, 06:12
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
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'I am still amazed that when you pay less to fly than just about any other mode of transport that people still expect 1950's BOAC service from Cabin Crew
It depends on what you mean by service. If you mean manners and being approachable and friendly then yes, what's wrong with that? If you mean product that is offered, then times have certainly changed.

I was on a BMI flight to the Middle East recently when this family of 3 were abused by a French Stewardess because the child was sitting in a seat and not on the mother's lap. She tore into this poor woman and threatened to have her 'offloaded' if she didn't put the child on her lap. Now I know many people from the Middle East don't speak much English and probably wouldn't understand the verb offload, but her body language and gestures were insulting to say the least. If I'd spoken to someone like that when I was flying I'd have been out the door.
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Old 21st May 2009, 06:30
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Is it possible she knew the overheads pop open unless slammed shut?
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Old 21st May 2009, 08:17
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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I love some of the rubbish on this thread!

737's parked in front of hangars must make them 'broken' and 'falling to bits'.

Lockers open unless 'slammed' annoyingly above passengers heads.

Cabin crew have a harder time with an aircraft change than flight crew.

Where does all this come from?

The 737's are parked at LGW for ROUTINE maintenance. As BA has a maintenance turnround facility at LGW south of the main they, oddly enough, do the work there. Any major defect rectification involving the flight worthiness of the airframe is normally conducted at GLA. You don't see many other carriers doing maintenance at LGW as they farm it out to outside contractors abroad mostly. E.g. Jet 2 has most of it's main maintenance sub contracted in Bucharest (main hangar to the east of the apron between 08L and 08R).

Lockers can be closed and then 'firmly but gently' pushed until they 'click' secure. Oddly enough, as most pax are asked to close them when full and don't, the 'slam' method comes to the fore as a 'why don't you do as your told' reminder.

Best of all the CC have it harder than the FC on an aircraft change! Love this. Close, inventory and lock the bars. Shame. Change aircraft type? Possible 737-300/400/500/800? Could be. A319/320/321 Also a possibility. Different aircraft weights, loads, cargo. Require new manifests, flight plans, load sheets. Differing weights could require different fuel loads, diversions. Opdefs need careful consideration as to the route, cruise alt and available diversions. Etc. Etc. Etc. So where does the 'harder' come in? Possibly better to say it is a pain for both the flight crew and the cabin crew but for differing reasons.

Careful what you post.
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Old 21st May 2009, 08:59
  #30 (permalink)  
Michael Birbeck
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Professionalism?

I have never wandered onto this forum before and am not a cabin crew member but was taken aback by some of the posts here. IMHO there is no justification for anyone to slam anything or stamp up and down an aircraft like some prima donna. I appreciate that the pressures and irritations may be great but surely professionalism, no matter what the underlying issues are, should be the watchword. If someone can't show a calm demeanour at the outset how likely are they to maintain a calm organised approach when the chips are really down, like in an aircraft evacuation in the face of an aircraft fire for example.

As for the comment

Lockers can be closed and then 'firmly but gently' pushed until they 'click' secure. Oddly enough, as most pax are asked to close them when full and don't, the 'slam' method comes to the fore as a 'why don't you do as your told' reminder.
I partly agree. Truth is most people would close them but don't appreciate that they are full or expect one or more people after them to use the locker. Slamming the locker as 'why don't you do as your told' reminder is surely just puerile and sets the tone for an antagonistic approach from all who witnessed the "example".
 
Old 21st May 2009, 09:53
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the clouds
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That is assuming of course that the original post was a completely objective, emotionally detached and factual account of events. It is human nature to recall events coloured by our own reactions and perceptions at the time.

Everyone has a different idea on what it slamming, what is throwing etc... My neighbours have relatives that sound like an invading army everytime they visit. I am extremely annoyed by the loud banging and yelling in the apartment block. Yet my neighbours think this is perfectly normal behaviour.They even encourage the grandchild yell at the top of his lungs because they are delighted by it and think it's entertaining. I often wonder what planet they are from.

As I said, personal perception is everything and it's possible that these events are larger in the poster's eyes then they were to others on the same flight. It's all a matter of what pushes your personal buttons.

As far crew eating when there is no service to passengers? Hardly wrong, crew don't get meal breaks and rarely have a chance to eat anything at all. If they have a few minutes in which to consume their only meal of the day then so be it. If there was an aircraft change and a delay it's highly likely that catering was not loaded (it's often cut to try and make up time and not cause further delays) and that is the real reason why a service was not provided.
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Old 21st May 2009, 10:04
  #32 (permalink)  
Michael Birbeck
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Customer service! Who cares?

As far crew eating when there is no service to passengers? Hardly wrong, crew don't get meal breaks and rarely have a chance to eat anything at all. If they have a few minutes in which to consume their only meal of the day then so be it. If there was an aircraft change and a delay it's highly likely that catering was not loaded (it's often cut to try and make up time and not cause further delays) and that is the real reason why a service was not provided.
True but stupid to actually be seen eating in front of the passengers when you have just told them that the cupboard is bare.

Think people, think .
 
Old 21st May 2009, 11:52
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
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How is it stupid for crew to eat their own food?
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Old 21st May 2009, 12:10
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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How is it stupid for crew to eat their own food?
I think it is referring to the perception given to the passengers that although they, as paying passengers, have no meal, the crew do.

I don't have a problem with this if the crew have either bought their own crew food or have had one trolley with the crew catering loaded. However, as has been intimated by the previous post, a little care and forethought should be applied by not eating your food during the flight in sight of the, potentially hungry, fare paying passengers. Perhaps slide the curtain across if fitted or wait until the turn round?

Where has common sense disappeared to in the last 10 years? Please come back!
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Old 21st May 2009, 13:02
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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I believe the kind of common sense you are talking about was removed by airline management around the same time they removed the cabin dressers and 45min turns.. Don't know about you but there is no time on my turnarounds to eat anything, too busy pulling snotty tissues out of seat pockets and cleaning up vomit before the next load of pax board.

Trust me, it's not my choice to consume a meal standing up in a galley where a sensitive passenger might be offended by my consumption of actual food. But policies like not being allowed to draw a galley curtain, having barely enough time to pull rubbish out of aisles before boarding the next flight and no controlled rest don't assist my ability to hide the shameful act of eating.

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Old 21st May 2009, 15:59
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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You are totally right, let's just replace the cabin crew with robots.

It also sounds like a very short flight-do people really need to eat? Unlike the crew who may have done a 12.5 hour working day. People moan when food is provided for being poor quality...then moan when they do get fed. Interesting.
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Old 21st May 2009, 17:02
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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I'm sorry guys but I really have to jump to the defence of our colleagues here.

a little care and forethought should be applied by not eating your food during the flight in sight of the, potentially hungry, fare paying passengers. Perhaps slide the curtain across if fitted or wait until the turn round?
Wobble, one can assume in this situation that as the crew are delayed, and as they also work for a loco, they could have been without the chance to eat for some time - pax will be on the aircraft on the sector in question for no time at all - if they are disappointed they couldn't eat the soggy 5 sandwich (no offence to Flybe I think it is a side effect of being wrapped and chilled - all airline food is pretty naff) may I suggest they could have purchased a cheaper nicer meal on the ground - the crew don't often have this luxury, nor, on the Dash 8 in this operation, are they likely to have had the luxury of eating on turn around.

Subtlety is a great idea but on such a small aircraft not exactly a possibility.

I appreciate that the pressures and irritations may be great but surely professionalism, no matter what the underlying issues are, should be the watchword.
And then there is the real world where people have problems in their lives, and decibels caused by closing an overhead locker, and the "distress" that causes to a passenger, really pale to insignificance if we thought about it. If people took a more sympathetic view in general in this world perhaps we would all get on a lot better.

I'm sorry MB but if you are able to wear a smile no matter what has happened then you are better man than me..... we all have limits, we should aim to be, as you say, as "professional" as possible, at all times, but equally as passengers we should appreciate cabin crew are people not machines.
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Old 21st May 2009, 21:15
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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flybe

Im sorry everyone but i have to jump into the defence here...the flybe crew would have more than likely worked a 6 sector day ..which could have taken their day up to nearly a 15hour duty if they were late by 2 hours.

Regarding crew eating ,they only get crew food if they work over a 6 hour duty so i think after going without food for 6 hours they are entitled to grab something to eat..they are only human

Boarding music,well its a pain but we are told to play it and yes i know its not to everyone taste but we cant please everyone.

No bar service for the passengers due to aircraft swop...this is a nightmare as 90% of the time the flights are manual bars and the paperwork is hell.you have to shut a bar down which is ALOT of work on short flights,then disembark passengers..check the cabin ,do seat pockets ,have a handover to another crew,jump onto another aircraft, do security check,seatpockets,check and organise catering prepare paperwork and board passengers all within 20mins of landing...

Overhead lockers well they are a pain but passengers are the worst offenders they stuff them full ,dont care how they put their items in and then leave us to try get them shut when they are crammed full.plus how many times have you seen a passenger reach into an overhead locker and leave it open midflight.

The Dash is a very noisy a/c and i leave it to the flight deck when it comes to pushback,speed and runways as they are the experts and will not do anything delibrately to endanger anyone

Also regarding the stroppiness of the crew well if that was true then they are out of order as it costs nothing to be polite but please dont be quick to judge as i can guarantee they have taken alot of abuse already for the flight being delayed ,and being spoken to like a piece of trash does get you down...iv even had passengers complaining that we are arriving early....sometimes we just cant win...but finally i do apologise that you had a bad experience but i promise that was a rare one as the vast majority of the crew and flight deck are lovely.
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Old 21st May 2009, 23:16
  #39 (permalink)  
Michael Birbeck
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My ex wife complains the same way.

With respect to the crew.

We all should have respect.

II am not perfect. Damn it we are human beings after all, but we can at least try :-).

With respect.
 
Old 22nd May 2009, 01:33
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: West Yorkshire Zone
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Think 'IT'S TIME' the CAA put their 'Foot Down' with the 'Loco's and how they are 'Racing' around like 'Mad People' to get their jobs done in an 'Unsafe' and 'Dangerous' manner.

Their is 'No possible way' an average human being can work upto 14 hours without getting tired, Moody, And maybe sometimes unsafe when operating a flight without 'Adequate food & rest'?

So really, I think the CAA should lay down the law to EZY, FR, LS etc and demand that they 'Allow' - a big word - at least 30 minutes for an aircraft to be 'Safely' turned around on a gate?

What is happening is EZY & FR especially are 'Operating Dangerously' and getting away with making their crews 'Race' around upto their threshold levels just to earn the 'Big bosses' more money etc.

There should be some kind of CAA law which dictates at least 30 minutes, Not 25, Not 20 or even 15 minutes a simple 30 minutes to 'Allow' for the operation to run safely.

If the CAA does not do anything about this ongoing problem, Then it is only time before a 'Major' accident/incident will happen, And then who will be injured and killed then = The pax and the hardworking crew & Airport staff - Not the MD & Board of dictators!!

FR are flouting the 20 or even 15 minute turnarounds and nobody ie the Airport or even the CAA are expressing concerns about safety?

The situation will never improve if there is no concerns expressed by the appropriate management at the CAA or the airports themselves.

There are only 24 hours in a day - Everybody needs to 'Slow down' and perform their jobs in a timescale that is smooth & safe for everyone on the flight.

Not many pilot's can 'THOROUGHLY' do the walkround check, Scan the cockpit instruments, Check the Nav & weather etc, And the constant paperwork to go with it in 20 minutes surely?

If they do, Then it 'Beggars belief' that there has been no 'Major' accidents upto press (Anyway)!!

The walkround is nearly 10 minutes on it's own if done 'Thoroughly'

I have heard of some flight crews 'Not bothering' to do a walkround on certain sectors in a busy day?

I'm not surprised at that, Given that they are on this 'Appauling' time limitation from their bosses who are sat in their 'Comfy' offices!!

So really, To 'Race' around doing your job is putting everyone including yourself at risk of an incident or even a 'Major' incident?

I agree CC should display a good character if not all of the time, But when they work for a 'Loco' then there patience is pressed even more than what it would be working as CC in general.

The other potential 'Knock-on' effect is when they eventually finish work and go and get in their car, They are tired, Pi**ed off, And maybe not concentrating 100% on their actual driving?

What happens then - BANG!! they are involved in an RTA on the way home, And this could involve other innocent people?

So my message is that I think it's time the CAA channeled their interests at EZY FR & the other loco's who are 'Slave' driving their crews upto 14 hours a day 'Roll on - Roll off'.

To those who are 'Happy' or disagree with what I am saying to race around operating a 'Public' service flight then I think it is only a matter of time before a disaster strikes?

That's most of the 'Non loco carriers' 'Allow' time to turnaround a 17 million pound 757 in 1 hour and 15 minutes - Not 20 minutes!!

(I would rather land 10 minutes late than land 10 minutes dead!!)

So the solution is what I have just said.

You have a 90% chance of making a mistake when you are in a rush??

CAA = PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN!!
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