BA and Project Columbus III
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Despair!
As BA CC myself (Eurofleet) I have to say that I am starting to despair of this whole situation, and am doubting that many of my colleagues have any ability whatsoever to trully see what's happening to BA and the industry in general. How that will translate if it comes to any kind of vote absolutely terrifies me.
Over the last few days, so many that I have worked with are simply spouting along the lines of "BA is not in financial trouble, it's all lies", "Willy just wants to destroy BASSA", "It's illegal to make anyone redundant", and the latest now is from those crew who, having read the subject title of the VUW offer, think that they are being asked to give up ALL payments (including allowances) for 1-4weeks, think it only applies to crew (so is therefore unfair), or think they are being asked to work their days-off.
That's scary, but what's worse is that despite many postings on the BASSA and other CC forum sites, it seems that BASSA itself is quite content to let this confusion run riot amongst it's members.
That said, I have to also say that I'm finding the (mostly) level-headed debate on here to be quite uplifting, despite the seriousness of the subject matter. There may be hope!
Over the last few days, so many that I have worked with are simply spouting along the lines of "BA is not in financial trouble, it's all lies", "Willy just wants to destroy BASSA", "It's illegal to make anyone redundant", and the latest now is from those crew who, having read the subject title of the VUW offer, think that they are being asked to give up ALL payments (including allowances) for 1-4weeks, think it only applies to crew (so is therefore unfair), or think they are being asked to work their days-off.
That's scary, but what's worse is that despite many postings on the BASSA and other CC forum sites, it seems that BASSA itself is quite content to let this confusion run riot amongst it's members.
That said, I have to also say that I'm finding the (mostly) level-headed debate on here to be quite uplifting, despite the seriousness of the subject matter. There may be hope!
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That's scary, but what's worse is that despite many postings on the BASSA and other CC forum sites, it seems that BASSA itself is quite content to let this confusion run riot amongst it's members.
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TorC Part of the problem is as I see it is the bitterness and anger between BA management and BA cabin crew. I have worked for the airline just over 20 years and the tensions between the two sides seems to be increasing on a weekly basis.
I have a lot to be thankful for BA has been good to me. But I can see why this anger and resentment has happened over the years.
Hence why we are now at a point where there is no trust or mutual respect. BA may be telling the truth and we are as a company in dire trouble. But the very people it needs on side are working against the company and dare I say there is even an element that don't give a dam if the company goes under.
I think its very sad that we are where we are now, but I fear that there is going to be major trouble ahead for Mr Walsh as they seem intent on screwing the cabin crew community out of their terms and conditions, while other departments (non customer service departments) seem to be getting let off somewhat lightly.
I have a lot to be thankful for BA has been good to me. But I can see why this anger and resentment has happened over the years.
Hence why we are now at a point where there is no trust or mutual respect. BA may be telling the truth and we are as a company in dire trouble. But the very people it needs on side are working against the company and dare I say there is even an element that don't give a dam if the company goes under.
I think its very sad that we are where we are now, but I fear that there is going to be major trouble ahead for Mr Walsh as they seem intent on screwing the cabin crew community out of their terms and conditions, while other departments (non customer service departments) seem to be getting let off somewhat lightly.
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Deltaguy:
The only reason that other departments 'seem' to be getting away lightly is because they have already rationalised! This fact has been conveniently hidden from the majority of BASSA members as the hierarchy in BASSA realise that they have a long way to fall if they were to catch up with the rest of the company. Ask the engineers how their conditions have changed, the ramp rats, loaders, Ground handling staff, pilots etc. All of the T's & C's are remarkably different to 10 years ago.
The CC however, are not. This may be seen as a triumph of BASSA negotiating, no is an easy word, but what it ultimately has been is that the company couldn't, at the time, be bothered with the petty, militant approach. Now, however, they need to take the bull by the horns and take BASSA/UNITE head on.
Now 10/20 years of painful adjustment comes at once and people wonder why the CC are complaining? Sorry but it has been coming for a long time.
Mr Walsh as they seem intent on screwing the cabin crew community out of their terms and conditions, while other departments (non customer service departments) seem to be getting let of relatively lightly.
The CC however, are not. This may be seen as a triumph of BASSA negotiating, no is an easy word, but what it ultimately has been is that the company couldn't, at the time, be bothered with the petty, militant approach. Now, however, they need to take the bull by the horns and take BASSA/UNITE head on.
Now 10/20 years of painful adjustment comes at once and people wonder why the CC are complaining? Sorry but it has been coming for a long time.
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Who's going to keep the cat?
TorC Part of the problem is as I see it is the bitterness and anger between BA management and BA cabin crew. I have worked for the airline just over 20 years and the tensions between the two sides seems to be increasing on a weekly basis.
What is also natural in most relationships, if they are honest and true relationships in which both parties want the best for each other, is a willingness by both parties to talk/listen/question/understand/give/take etc and to try to move towards a common point of resolution, at a cost acceptable to both parties. This is what seems to be sadly lacking in the BA/BASSA relationship. I accept that blame lies on both sides. I do not accept though that it lies in equal proportions.
As an employee, I relate myself directly to BA, not via BASSA. I have a seperate relationship with BASSA. Most of the time, I'm fairly content with my relationship to BA. It feels to me to be quite a healthy and open relationship. BASSA and me though, we are on shaky ground, and maybe about to argue over who gets to keep the cat.
Thread Starter
Stall Pusher
"Only two 744's have been grounded this year, yet we are taking delivery of 4 new 777-2200ER's"
But what about the additional 744's and the 757's that will be grounded this Winter (someone will remind me of the numbers involved in a minute)?
But what about the additional 744's and the 757's that will be grounded this Winter (someone will remind me of the numbers involved in a minute)?
Last edited by wiggy; 15th Jun 2009 at 19:04.
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Contrary to the MOS
reports, he BALPA deal that meets the company demands and wil be balloted on includes:
Basic pay reduction by just below 3%
Flying rate reduced by about 20%
Increased annual work LH and SH
Fewer augmented crew on LH
Reduced report times for SH (due T5 improvements)
This is the result of an intelligent negotiation between an Association and a Company. It still has to be voted in, but I'm sure it will be; and BALPA retains the right to null and void it if any other area doesn't fulfill their part of their commitment in its entirity.
Meanwhile BASSA are apparently denying that there is a problem at all. Well, folks, stand by for a few hard proposals and realities in the next fortnight if your reps don't wisen up.
I wish you well as individuals, but look forward to the obliteration of BASSA and their total ignorance of reality. Bring it on Willie - well overdue and something that the rest of the company are relishing - just ask any engineer, for example.
reports, he BALPA deal that meets the company demands and wil be balloted on includes:Basic pay reduction by just below 3%
Flying rate reduced by about 20%
Increased annual work LH and SH
Fewer augmented crew on LH
Reduced report times for SH (due T5 improvements)
This is the result of an intelligent negotiation between an Association and a Company. It still has to be voted in, but I'm sure it will be; and BALPA retains the right to null and void it if any other area doesn't fulfill their part of their commitment in its entirity.
Meanwhile BASSA are apparently denying that there is a problem at all. Well, folks, stand by for a few hard proposals and realities in the next fortnight if your reps don't wisen up.
I wish you well as individuals, but look forward to the obliteration of BASSA and their total ignorance of reality. Bring it on Willie - well overdue and something that the rest of the company are relishing - just ask any engineer, for example.
Thread Starter
Topbunk
Just for clarity, to avoid any possible misunderstanding and you being misquoted ...
Do you mean the Flying Hour Rate is down 20%? (i.e. the payment for each hour flown is reduced by 20%)
Just for clarity, to avoid any possible misunderstanding and you being misquoted ...
Do you mean the Flying Hour Rate is down 20%? (i.e. the payment for each hour flown is reduced by 20%)
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I suppose our clear times will be discussed as they have been monitoring them closely since we began reporting at the CRC. In that case many crew do have themselves to run as many rush off the aircraft, even being told otherwise, as soon as the passengers have disembarked.
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nuigini
Yes, there has been an hours/annum increase for both LH and SH which brings us closer to the maximum annual flying rate. This is at no extra cost to the company hence the productivity gains.
Work more, paid less.
More to come for the CC.
Yes, there has been an hours/annum increase for both LH and SH which brings us closer to the maximum annual flying rate. This is at no extra cost to the company hence the productivity gains.
Work more, paid less.
More to come for the CC.
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BA is not going bust. It will not be bust at the end of the year. We may have a different CEO by the end of the year, but the airline will still be there.
Thankfully, unlike you stallpusher, many crew do are able to see the bigger picture and I just pray that others wake up before it's too late.
Remember BCAL - everyone said they wouldn't go broke and look what happened there.
It seems that BASSA are now really fearful about the loss of Ts & Cs for the senior/older end of the pay/perk scales. They don't seem to have done an awful lot for the younger, newer entrants or those at LGW. Essentially, BASSA appears to have been a club run by the seniors for the seniors, and everyone else has been bullied and lied to to keep them in line. These 'club-members' are beginning to sweat and panic as their cosy little lives are now seriously threatened! No more cosy trip selections or dictating behaviour during disruption.
Such a shame that so many of its members have allowed themselves to be led up this garden path.
The train smash is coming, and coming quickly. Casualties will abound. And Stall Pusher will probably only realise that as they zip up his/her body bag!
Such a shame that so many of its members have allowed themselves to be led up this garden path.
The train smash is coming, and coming quickly. Casualties will abound. And Stall Pusher will probably only realise that as they zip up his/her body bag!
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I also hope others will come to their senses and see what exactly is happening. I recently came home from a trip and some crew really scare me with their selfishness. One girl said she would rather see the airline go bust than having her terms and conditions changed because she can't afford to give up any money. How clever is that?
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It seems that BASSA are now really fearful about the loss of Ts & Cs for the senior/older end of the pay/perk scales. They don't seem to have done an awful lot for the younger, newer entrants or those at LGW.
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Well TopBunk. It is about time that BALPA entered into an intelligent debate with BA management, after the embarrassing situation your union got itself into over OpenSkies.Wasn't very intelligent was it?
Fancy you lot taking a pay cut whilst our dear CEO continues to pump money into your nemesis! Willie seems to get whatever he wants from the pilots.
I do not know why the pilots on this forum keep attacking BASSA. All I hear from them is how weak and expensive their union is, moaning about the reps etc.
BALPA ought to take a leaf out of BASSA's book and not get pushed around by Walsh. He has got those OpenSkies contracts all ready for you in the drawer. You will wish you were flying for JetStar.
Fancy you lot taking a pay cut whilst our dear CEO continues to pump money into your nemesis! Willie seems to get whatever he wants from the pilots.
I do not know why the pilots on this forum keep attacking BASSA. All I hear from them is how weak and expensive their union is, moaning about the reps etc.
BALPA ought to take a leaf out of BASSA's book and not get pushed around by Walsh. He has got those OpenSkies contracts all ready for you in the drawer. You will wish you were flying for JetStar.
Thread Starter
Welcome back Stall Pusher,
So I take it you still have no thoughts on the consequences of 16 aircraft being grounded this winter, not the 2 you claimed your post #760?....
So I take it you still have no thoughts on the consequences of 16 aircraft being grounded this winter, not the 2 you claimed your post #760?....
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It's beginning to get nasty in here - Could we put the handbags away please ladies and try to stay calm and sensible. Please remember that this is not a thread about BALPA - It is not a vehicle for flight crew to attack cabin crew, or vice versa. No further warnings - offending posts will be deleted from now on, without warning or explanation.