BA and Project Columbus III
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As a former BA employee on the "11 month temp" contract, I have been following this thread/debate with interest. I finished my contract almost 2 months ago and since then have had a few interviews for other (lowcost) airlines, but i'm still unemployed. As much as I want to get back into full time employment, preferably with another full service, long haul, airline, as quickly as possible. I am tempted to sit back and wait and see what happens with BA (god knows how long i'll be waiting tho.....!)
I'm intrigued to see what this 'new fleet' will be. I'm fed up of all the rumours and hatred flying around over it, particularly over at the BASSA forum (scab fleet etc....) when nobody actually knows what it will ultimately entail. Yes, i know people keep saying it will run to scheme, minimum rest etc, but lets wait and see something in writing ok.
Yes, I did join BASSA during my time, however, if I went back to BA I think I could probably put my £15 a month to better use. They certainly don't wish to look after the majority of the crew (I also find it laughable that the head of the union commutes from LA, if that's not a sign that certain crew are over paid I don't know what is....). Having worked for BA, i find that BASSA just like to send out random flyers every now and then that don't really tell you anything and are just designed to hype people up into a frenzy! They are just as bad, if not worse than, the BA management! I'm all for protecting the current T&C's but the way that BASSA go about things, acting as if they run the airline and failing to negotiate anything, I will not be surprised at all if Willie and Bill get there way.
Whatever the future holds for those of us back in the 'hold pool'/ex temps etc, I for one will be jumping at the chance to get back in with BA if offered a contract in the near (?) future because I want to work for BA, if I don't like it, i'll leave. In my opinion, the problem lies within the crew who have worked for BA for years and years, have no idea what life is like outside their little bubble and don't seem to understand what wages the rest of the working world earns. I can see exactly why the management want changes to be made and I do agree with a lot of them (not all...), I'm not sure that most BA Crew realise just how good they have it. Before I joined BA, I was earning half the money and doing twice the hours and had a lot more responsibility and work commitments. Joining BA was like going on one long holiday!
I'm intrigued to see what this 'new fleet' will be. I'm fed up of all the rumours and hatred flying around over it, particularly over at the BASSA forum (scab fleet etc....) when nobody actually knows what it will ultimately entail. Yes, i know people keep saying it will run to scheme, minimum rest etc, but lets wait and see something in writing ok.
Yes, I did join BASSA during my time, however, if I went back to BA I think I could probably put my £15 a month to better use. They certainly don't wish to look after the majority of the crew (I also find it laughable that the head of the union commutes from LA, if that's not a sign that certain crew are over paid I don't know what is....). Having worked for BA, i find that BASSA just like to send out random flyers every now and then that don't really tell you anything and are just designed to hype people up into a frenzy! They are just as bad, if not worse than, the BA management! I'm all for protecting the current T&C's but the way that BASSA go about things, acting as if they run the airline and failing to negotiate anything, I will not be surprised at all if Willie and Bill get there way.
Whatever the future holds for those of us back in the 'hold pool'/ex temps etc, I for one will be jumping at the chance to get back in with BA if offered a contract in the near (?) future because I want to work for BA, if I don't like it, i'll leave. In my opinion, the problem lies within the crew who have worked for BA for years and years, have no idea what life is like outside their little bubble and don't seem to understand what wages the rest of the working world earns. I can see exactly why the management want changes to be made and I do agree with a lot of them (not all...), I'm not sure that most BA Crew realise just how good they have it. Before I joined BA, I was earning half the money and doing twice the hours and had a lot more responsibility and work commitments. Joining BA was like going on one long holiday!
Thread Starter
JayPee
Interesting when you say that:
"Airlines like Virgin, AF/KLM etc are not your major long-term threat. Ryanair is the model you need to look at, "
Absolutely - as we all know ( or obviously not) most passengers have now become incredibly price sensitive....couple that with the fact BA's shorthaul economy product (on board) is to be polite, pretty average compared with the likes of Ryanair, Easyjet and others, that costs of operating out of LHR are inevitably higher that operating out of the likes Lutonsted or Brimoge
and IMHO BA shorthaul in it's present form us running out of time.
As for "Stall Pushers" comments about BALPA, the reps, and pilots rolling over I wonder which Union he/she is in?
"Airlines like Virgin, AF/KLM etc are not your major long-term threat. Ryanair is the model you need to look at, "
Absolutely - as we all know ( or obviously not) most passengers have now become incredibly price sensitive....couple that with the fact BA's shorthaul economy product (on board) is to be polite, pretty average compared with the likes of Ryanair, Easyjet and others, that costs of operating out of LHR are inevitably higher that operating out of the likes Lutonsted or Brimoge
and IMHO BA shorthaul in it's present form us running out of time.As for "Stall Pushers" comments about BALPA, the reps, and pilots rolling over I wonder which Union he/she is in?
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Haha, thanks, i was expecting to get shot down in flames (altho there is time for that yet...).
I just want things to get sorted quickly for everybody, there are a lot of people both within BA and outside BA waiting on the outcome of these talks before deciding what to do next (ie, severance, part time etc.). Frustrating as it is, I for one can't rationally make my next job/career move until I now what BA's plans are.
I just want things to get sorted quickly for everybody, there are a lot of people both within BA and outside BA waiting on the outcome of these talks before deciding what to do next (ie, severance, part time etc.). Frustrating as it is, I for one can't rationally make my next job/career move until I now what BA's plans are.
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Is that right Overstress? You have friends leaving BASSA for what? To throw themselves at the mercy of Walsh?
What a load of rubbish.
It is ony a few short months ago that Willie Walsh was on Question Time campaigning for a third runway at LHR. Why would he be doing that if he knew there was going to be a crisis, with the airline under imminent threat of going bust? Why did he not take action before? How could he get it so wrong? Why was capacity not cut BEFORE the summer schedule if things looked so dire? What has he been doing.....gone to sleep on the job?
So the UK is going to host the 2012 Olympics, but will have no national carrier? Why is money still being pumped into OpenSkies flying thirsty 757's with no passengers and no hope in sight of ever being proiftable. Only Willie Walsh could predict that 30 airlines are going to go bust in the recession, and then starts one himself! A business carrier like OS starts flying, when BA cannot fill the Club cabins on its mainline operation. Can anyone here make sense of that?
Somehow I don't believe that BA is going bust? Airlines like ALITALIA and OLYMPIC are still there, even SAS, yet Walsh predicts that BA will go bust before them? Doesn't say much about the quality of the Leadership Team at BA. Have they really painted the airline into this corner, that only screwing the T&C's of its employees will save the carrier from disaster? Such a reversal of fortune will eclipse even the mismanagement of ENRON.
It is not going to look good on Walsh's CV that he was the Captain at the helm when it hit the reef. If BA goes bust, he is finished too. I think he has more ambition than that.
However it may just be that the CEO of BA is just a cost cutter with no finesse to close the deal with IBERIA, or to steer the carrier through choppy waters without alienating most of his staff. Walsh got lucky at Aer Lingus and left just in time. Now there is nowhere to go.
It will be a interesting few weeks.
What a load of rubbish.
It is ony a few short months ago that Willie Walsh was on Question Time campaigning for a third runway at LHR. Why would he be doing that if he knew there was going to be a crisis, with the airline under imminent threat of going bust? Why did he not take action before? How could he get it so wrong? Why was capacity not cut BEFORE the summer schedule if things looked so dire? What has he been doing.....gone to sleep on the job?
So the UK is going to host the 2012 Olympics, but will have no national carrier? Why is money still being pumped into OpenSkies flying thirsty 757's with no passengers and no hope in sight of ever being proiftable. Only Willie Walsh could predict that 30 airlines are going to go bust in the recession, and then starts one himself! A business carrier like OS starts flying, when BA cannot fill the Club cabins on its mainline operation. Can anyone here make sense of that?
Somehow I don't believe that BA is going bust? Airlines like ALITALIA and OLYMPIC are still there, even SAS, yet Walsh predicts that BA will go bust before them? Doesn't say much about the quality of the Leadership Team at BA. Have they really painted the airline into this corner, that only screwing the T&C's of its employees will save the carrier from disaster? Such a reversal of fortune will eclipse even the mismanagement of ENRON.
It is not going to look good on Walsh's CV that he was the Captain at the helm when it hit the reef. If BA goes bust, he is finished too. I think he has more ambition than that.
However it may just be that the CEO of BA is just a cost cutter with no finesse to close the deal with IBERIA, or to steer the carrier through choppy waters without alienating most of his staff. Walsh got lucky at Aer Lingus and left just in time. Now there is nowhere to go.
It will be a interesting few weeks.
Thread Starter
Stall Pusher
Flag Carrier for 2012? Virgin?
Yep, Olympic and Alitalia are still in existence- Ever heard of thinly disguised state aid?.....Do you honestly think the UK Government will bail out BA if it goes broke? Please tell me you are not betting the farm, your future and your T&Cs on state aid...
Yep, Olympic and Alitalia are still in existence- Ever heard of thinly disguised state aid?.....Do you honestly think the UK Government will bail out BA if it goes broke? Please tell me you are not betting the farm, your future and your T&Cs on state aid...
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Get a grip of reality: the company is bleeding.
Companies all over the world are going bust and crew at BA are refusing to give away a couple of pounds because they believe the management is lying and using the recession as an excuse to change them.
As much as I would love to keep our terms and conditions, I can't see how it could be done under these circumstances. I would rather accept a change than be queuing at the Jobcentre.
Companies all over the world are going bust and crew at BA are refusing to give away a couple of pounds because they believe the management is lying and using the recession as an excuse to change them.
As much as I would love to keep our terms and conditions, I can't see how it could be done under these circumstances. I would rather accept a change than be queuing at the Jobcentre.
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I am sure Wiggy that if ALITALIA or OLYMPIC were receiving illegal state aid, the EU transport commissioner would have acted.
However the bald facts are they are still there, just like Air France would also never go bust.
What a national embarrassment after the shameful opening of T5, if BA ceased operations? Could Walsh really achieve the double?
However the bald facts are they are still there, just like Air France would also never go bust.
What a national embarrassment after the shameful opening of T5, if BA ceased operations? Could Walsh really achieve the double?
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Stall Pusher,
SAS is actually owned by the governments of Denmark, Norway and Sweden which makes a significant difference. All of these countries have been "forced" to pay huge amounts of money this year because of their lousy figures.
SAS is actually owned by the governments of Denmark, Norway and Sweden which makes a significant difference. All of these countries have been "forced" to pay huge amounts of money this year because of their lousy figures.
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Stall Pusher,
Amazing, you have better oversight on the nefarious plans of the evil doer Willie Walsh than even the investors in the city have.
Cash is king, even if we add the 'nk' after the 'ba' the Government would not bail BA out. They can't even afford it. The German government worked tirelessly to ensure that Opel was covered before the transfer of ownership, what did our government do? Nothing. Now Mandy is trying to pick up the pieces! and LDV are going bust.
So, where will he steer the helm of BA according to BASSA? Have BASSA taken the time and effort to actually get into the books and determine, positively and thoroughly that WW is telling a pack of lies?
I think BASSA have a fairly large, overinflated opinion of themselves if they feel that all of the financial pain, the stock market hassle and the loss of pre-bookings is all in the name of spinning a yarn to get rid of the CC box payments and really we have a golden goose just waiting to lay in Waterworld.
Archetypal BASSA spin and nonsense. Will they still be telling their members that as the P45's hit the floor? 'Don't believe it, it's all smoke and mirrors, throw it in the bin, they didn't mean it!'?
Amazing, you have better oversight on the nefarious plans of the evil doer Willie Walsh than even the investors in the city have.
Cash is king, even if we add the 'nk' after the 'ba' the Government would not bail BA out. They can't even afford it. The German government worked tirelessly to ensure that Opel was covered before the transfer of ownership, what did our government do? Nothing. Now Mandy is trying to pick up the pieces! and LDV are going bust.
So, where will he steer the helm of BA according to BASSA? Have BASSA taken the time and effort to actually get into the books and determine, positively and thoroughly that WW is telling a pack of lies?
I think BASSA have a fairly large, overinflated opinion of themselves if they feel that all of the financial pain, the stock market hassle and the loss of pre-bookings is all in the name of spinning a yarn to get rid of the CC box payments and really we have a golden goose just waiting to lay in Waterworld.
Archetypal BASSA spin and nonsense. Will they still be telling their members that as the P45's hit the floor? 'Don't believe it, it's all smoke and mirrors, throw it in the bin, they didn't mean it!'?
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Yes that is true about SAS being state funded. Only 7.4% is privately owned.
British Airways has to compete with a number of airlines in the EU, which would never be allowed to go bust by their governments....Italy, France, Greece, Spain.
Why should their employees enjoy secure employment and better T&C's than those offered by British carriers? This Labour government is happy to help out the banks (£bns in bail outs), car manufacturers (scrappage scheme) and the property market (no stamp duty for properties under £175,000), yet loads up the airlines with APD?
If BA is so rotten with old fashioned working practices and over paid management and employees, perhaps it should be allowed to go bust. How can the airline compete with other EU carriers that will always survive no matter what?
BALPA blinked too soon. How foolish their members will feel in two years time when BA is making record profits again, as it has time after time.
British Airways has to compete with a number of airlines in the EU, which would never be allowed to go bust by their governments....Italy, France, Greece, Spain.
Why should their employees enjoy secure employment and better T&C's than those offered by British carriers? This Labour government is happy to help out the banks (£bns in bail outs), car manufacturers (scrappage scheme) and the property market (no stamp duty for properties under £175,000), yet loads up the airlines with APD?
If BA is so rotten with old fashioned working practices and over paid management and employees, perhaps it should be allowed to go bust. How can the airline compete with other EU carriers that will always survive no matter what?
BALPA blinked too soon. How foolish their members will feel in two years time when BA is making record profits again, as it has time after time.
Thread Starter
"British Airways has to compete with a number of airlines in the EU, which would never be allowed to go bust by their governments....Italy, France, Greece, Spain.
Why should their employees enjoy secure employment and better T&C's than those offered by British carriers"
Because, perhaps sadly, perhaps otherwise, UK plc has adopted the American way of doing business rather than the European Socialist way. I'm not saying that's right, but that's the way we do it.
As for BALPA blinking..the reps saw the Company figures. Look on the bright side - if BA is still around in two years in it's current form with your T&Cs untouched then you'll be able to afford to buy me a beer if we meet downroute.........
Why should their employees enjoy secure employment and better T&C's than those offered by British carriers"
Because, perhaps sadly, perhaps otherwise, UK plc has adopted the American way of doing business rather than the European Socialist way. I'm not saying that's right, but that's the way we do it.
As for BALPA blinking..the reps saw the Company figures. Look on the bright side - if BA is still around in two years in it's current form with your T&Cs untouched then you'll be able to afford to buy me a beer if we meet downroute.........
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There is more to running a business than profit, profit and profit. Other EU governments recognise this whether it is cars, house building or running an airline. The middle classes are the engine of the economy. If there is a race to the bottom on T&C's just to maximise profitability, who will be able to afford to buy a new car, update the washing machine or buy your own place.
I do not believe that BA cabin crew in the future will only be able to afford public transport, using a laundromat, or living in a rented room whilst the company makes huge profits.
What sort of people will be attracted to a job like that?
I do not believe that BA cabin crew in the future will only be able to afford public transport, using a laundromat, or living in a rented room whilst the company makes huge profits.
What sort of people will be attracted to a job like that?
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Interesting that you state that BALPA blinked too soon and will feel foolish in the future when none of the details of the package have been released.
Suffice to say that a major pillar of the negotiations was the building in of a long term incentive package and also the fact that there will be no implementation until ALL other department cost savings have been achieved.
Still a short sighted blink? Perhaps not.
All that given I still agree that we seem to be in an employment life raft with a big hole in the side put there by our glorious New Labour Government. Whilst we in the UK industry labour (no pun intended) under the weight of public 'green' enmity and adverse Governmental tax pressure the rest of Europe scrap taxes and bail out airlines. Add to that the 'level playing field' of the American bankruptcy protection along with the conveniently forgotten 'Open Skies' part II, the opening of the Americas for 'free trade' and we seem to have gotten ourselves up a creek with no paddles.
The futures bright, the futures Orange!
Suffice to say that a major pillar of the negotiations was the building in of a long term incentive package and also the fact that there will be no implementation until ALL other department cost savings have been achieved.
Still a short sighted blink? Perhaps not.
All that given I still agree that we seem to be in an employment life raft with a big hole in the side put there by our glorious New Labour Government. Whilst we in the UK industry labour (no pun intended) under the weight of public 'green' enmity and adverse Governmental tax pressure the rest of Europe scrap taxes and bail out airlines. Add to that the 'level playing field' of the American bankruptcy protection along with the conveniently forgotten 'Open Skies' part II, the opening of the Americas for 'free trade' and we seem to have gotten ourselves up a creek with no paddles.
The futures bright, the futures Orange!
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Stall Pusher:
I appreciate that you are a wind-up merchant but you pitch up on this forum and start calling me a liar?
I don't care for that much.
You carry on living in your bubble, you haven't got long until it bursts.
Why do I say you're in a bubble? maybe
Well you tell me what you think BA is for? 
Is that right Overstress? You have friends leaving BASSA for what? To throw themselves at the mercy of Walsh?
What a load of rubbish.
What a load of rubbish.
I don't care for that much.
You carry on living in your bubble, you haven't got long until it bursts.
Why do I say you're in a bubble? maybe
There is more to running a business than profit, profit and profit.
Thread Starter
I'm going to chuck this link in before I retire for the night....
I-resign.com - Community - Dismissal for SOSR - Some Other Substatial Reason
Relevant to the current situation or not?
I-resign.com - Community - Dismissal for SOSR - Some Other Substatial Reason
Relevant to the current situation or not?
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Wiggy
Actually, I thought "Stall Pushers" comments on Aer Lingus were the most illuminating in terms of failing to understand airline economics. EI remains a high cost airline even after several rounds of cutting and reorganisation. It remains highly unionised and relatively rigid in terms of work practices. It will run out of cash very soon unless air travel picks up again. They've just suspended a good proportion of their long haul flights for the duration of their summer timetable. What happens to staff not required as a result? I suspect they get paid a lot less, or nothing. Ryanair has few of these problems, certainly no shortage of cash yet, even though they are now having to pay more to attract staff. That's just because they are getting bigger.
Walsh may have his faults, and the T5 fiasco did reflect badly on him. However, he previously did a pretty good job in repositioning EI to compete with FR. He left because he was frustrated by a shareholder (the Irish government) that could not finance EI's clear need for investment in a new fleet, but would not divest the airline into private ownership where the necessary funds could be raised. The main point, though, is he knows the threat FR pose, and what has to be done to counter it. From what I can see, he's not exactly pushing to match FR, with things like 20 minute turnrounds on short haul for instance.
How about this as the ultimate nightmare for ALL BA staff, I'd suggest: FR bid for BA? Far-fetched? Well with €2 billion in the bank, FR could offer cash for BA and have change left over, though any bid would be stock or stock/some cash. Aer Lingus gave them some "practice" in corporate activity, something they'd not done before. Also, FR now know EXACTLY the parameters the EU will use to judge if a takeover is anti-competitive. The only problem the EU had with the FR/EI deal was the dominance of slots at DUB. Any FR/BA link would free up slots at LHR, so good for competition. Would FR do it? I doubt it. They're more likely to build long haul capability at Stansted, and use/grow their short haul network flying there to fill the planes. Then maybe roll out to their continental bases and do the same? Who knows? The EI thing was apparently a very opportunistic move, not something they'd planned for ages during the EI privatisation.
The point, though, is that there are worse things than BA's revised CC T&Cs I suspect, and FR is definitely in that category. Incidentally, I avoid FR if I can, even if I pay a bit more. I also avoid BA since I moved to Ireland. That's more to do with the dump of an airport you use as a base. LHR is a disgrace. I'm sure T5 is great if you fly in/transit/fly out from there, but having to transfer from Domestic T1 is a nightmare. And I've always had fantastic in-flight service from BA without any exception (and I was a Gold Card holder so no shortage of flights!). So CC may be hacked off with BA, but I have to say none ever took it out on the passengers, though some (pax) definitely deserved it!
Walsh may have his faults, and the T5 fiasco did reflect badly on him. However, he previously did a pretty good job in repositioning EI to compete with FR. He left because he was frustrated by a shareholder (the Irish government) that could not finance EI's clear need for investment in a new fleet, but would not divest the airline into private ownership where the necessary funds could be raised. The main point, though, is he knows the threat FR pose, and what has to be done to counter it. From what I can see, he's not exactly pushing to match FR, with things like 20 minute turnrounds on short haul for instance.
How about this as the ultimate nightmare for ALL BA staff, I'd suggest: FR bid for BA? Far-fetched? Well with €2 billion in the bank, FR could offer cash for BA and have change left over, though any bid would be stock or stock/some cash. Aer Lingus gave them some "practice" in corporate activity, something they'd not done before. Also, FR now know EXACTLY the parameters the EU will use to judge if a takeover is anti-competitive. The only problem the EU had with the FR/EI deal was the dominance of slots at DUB. Any FR/BA link would free up slots at LHR, so good for competition. Would FR do it? I doubt it. They're more likely to build long haul capability at Stansted, and use/grow their short haul network flying there to fill the planes. Then maybe roll out to their continental bases and do the same? Who knows? The EI thing was apparently a very opportunistic move, not something they'd planned for ages during the EI privatisation.
The point, though, is that there are worse things than BA's revised CC T&Cs I suspect, and FR is definitely in that category. Incidentally, I avoid FR if I can, even if I pay a bit more. I also avoid BA since I moved to Ireland. That's more to do with the dump of an airport you use as a base. LHR is a disgrace. I'm sure T5 is great if you fly in/transit/fly out from there, but having to transfer from Domestic T1 is a nightmare. And I've always had fantastic in-flight service from BA without any exception (and I was a Gold Card holder so no shortage of flights!). So CC may be hacked off with BA, but I have to say none ever took it out on the passengers, though some (pax) definitely deserved it!
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I do not believe that BA cabin crew in the future will only be able to afford public transport, using a laundromat, or living in a rented room whilst the company makes huge profits.
What sort of people will be attracted to a job like that?
What sort of people will be attracted to a job like that?
Why are many thousands of hopefuls for a BA CC job apply?
At what point will this diminish to none or even reverse to people leaving in droves as the wages/allowances/perks are cut?
The right rate for the job is when an employer can fill the vacant positions with ease and at minimal cost.
If the wages/allowances/perks are too low to attract, then they have to improve. Quite simple really.
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Yes Keel Beam, the same theory applies to Flight Crew. No doubt the market rate for a Captain will soon be £50,000 on an OpenSkies contract. I am sure there will be no shortage of takers.
You mention a good point Wobble regarding US carriers filing for Chapter 11, some of which have been in more than once and used the opportunity to uncompetitively reduce fares on international routes. Chapter 11 is a subsidy by proxy.
Even the Channel Tunnel's CEO Jacques Gounon sought a French style Chapter 11 under the auspices of the Paris Commercial Court and £4bn magically disappeared. EuroTunnel even had the nerve to say they made a profit in 2008-09!!!!! How they can do it when they cut frequency, fail to reduce fares and run empty trains is hard to fathom out.
British Airways does not have the option of Chapter 11 or the assistance of the Italian, French, Greek or Scandinavian goverments. This Labour government allowed Rover and LDV to go to the wall, where in France the same would never happen to Renault (25% owned by the French government), Citroen or Peugout.
Yes you might well bang your head on a wall Overstress. The attack on the T&C's of BA's employees is nothing to do with the recession, it would have happened anyway. It is a convenient foil for the BA LT. The financial state BA is alleged to be in, is entirely the responsibility if a dysfunctional management, as best exemplified by the T5 shambles.
I suppose the employees of Aer Lingus had their pay cut so that the airline would 'survive' and be more profitable.....now there is nothing to cut away. Just a pernicious ever downward spiral of parking up aircraft and laying off staff, with MOL circling, waiting to pick over the remains.
Even the BA pension fund deficit has grown after it was promised measures taken two years ago would sort the problem out. Whose fault is that? The employees?
You mention a good point Wobble regarding US carriers filing for Chapter 11, some of which have been in more than once and used the opportunity to uncompetitively reduce fares on international routes. Chapter 11 is a subsidy by proxy.
Even the Channel Tunnel's CEO Jacques Gounon sought a French style Chapter 11 under the auspices of the Paris Commercial Court and £4bn magically disappeared. EuroTunnel even had the nerve to say they made a profit in 2008-09!!!!! How they can do it when they cut frequency, fail to reduce fares and run empty trains is hard to fathom out.
British Airways does not have the option of Chapter 11 or the assistance of the Italian, French, Greek or Scandinavian goverments. This Labour government allowed Rover and LDV to go to the wall, where in France the same would never happen to Renault (25% owned by the French government), Citroen or Peugout.
Yes you might well bang your head on a wall Overstress. The attack on the T&C's of BA's employees is nothing to do with the recession, it would have happened anyway. It is a convenient foil for the BA LT. The financial state BA is alleged to be in, is entirely the responsibility if a dysfunctional management, as best exemplified by the T5 shambles.
I suppose the employees of Aer Lingus had their pay cut so that the airline would 'survive' and be more profitable.....now there is nothing to cut away. Just a pernicious ever downward spiral of parking up aircraft and laying off staff, with MOL circling, waiting to pick over the remains.
Even the BA pension fund deficit has grown after it was promised measures taken two years ago would sort the problem out. Whose fault is that? The employees?
Last edited by Stall Pusher; 14th Jun 2009 at 18:52.
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Stall Pusher, you put forward some salient points. A few, however, are wide of the mark. There will always be disparity between flight crew rates of pay and operators. Differing airlines offer different rates of pay to attract the best pilots which results in cheaper training costs and a reduction in the insurance paid by the company. Add to that the inherent PR associated with a good safety record and you can see a collective benefit from attracting pilots to a company at 'the top of the tree'. As the training, experience and type qualification of pilots is a protracted, expensive and difficult route this is a well established migratory regime and one that is unlikely to change drastically.
Sadly Cabin Crew minimum training requirements and qualifications are somewhat easier to replicate in a short time scale.
As to the pension. Well, as the pension is based upon current stock market valuations and, as the world stock markets crashed out worse than Amy Winehouse at a crack party, I fail to see how the pension deficit could have done anything other than worsen. Couple that with the money grabbing antics of our lovely 'gone is boom and bust' Government and you can see that just about every other private final salary pension is in the same leaky boat. Sinking fast!
Sadly Cabin Crew minimum training requirements and qualifications are somewhat easier to replicate in a short time scale.
As to the pension. Well, as the pension is based upon current stock market valuations and, as the world stock markets crashed out worse than Amy Winehouse at a crack party, I fail to see how the pension deficit could have done anything other than worsen. Couple that with the money grabbing antics of our lovely 'gone is boom and bust' Government and you can see that just about every other private final salary pension is in the same leaky boat. Sinking fast!