BA and Project Columbus II

[Carnage Matey!]

PC767 - I'm pleasantly surprised that you were one of the No voters, but how do you acknowledge what those voters stood for when we both know that even they didn't know what they stood for? We all know the way it went was that BASSA said "Lets have a strike" and everyone else said "Great! Now what are we striking for?". Thats when BASSA created a great hotch potch of every imaginable grievance, from Pursers off the jumbo to CSDs off the Airbus to LGW breakfast allowances to re-opening of the MAN base via CSDs room upgrades and some part time stuff plus much much more. It was such a catch-all that everyone had something to gripe about and vote Yes for, but few had enough to actually go on strike for. That's why they printed the infantile "Diary of a crewmember" propaganda piece and thats why the support crumbled when people realised they might actually have to withdraw their labour. The whole thing was a hugely expensive piece of grandstanding, hobbled from the start by the fact that they'd put so many issues on the ballot paper when BA needed only to agree to one to invalidate the strike ballot and force BASSA to re-ballot. That, unfortunately, is the legacy of Maggies union reforms. It's small wonder that at the last minute the TGWU had to step in to arrange a face-saving solution. I hope your reps are prepared to take a more mature approach this time or it'll be the same old story again.

[overstress]

Many a time have I been told "we need to chock after xxxxZ" - the implication being that this will trigger some outdated and expensive payment.

I also used to (in the days of sharing a bus back to the carpark) get tired of hearing "well done everyone, xx amount of overtime". Overtime! On a slightly late, rostered flight! Run that one past me again?

[newbagr]

Roger Cobbid, I hope your time for change is coming soon. I think you all forget how you were moaning about openskies, and now you are the first ones to have an opinion about cabin crew's salaries and old agreements.

[Re-Heat]

Many a time have I been told "we need to chock after xxxxZ" - the implication being that this will trigger some outdated and expensive payment.

Just to add - you do realise that this is technically fraud?

Along with nicking the "open" champagne, chocolates etc.

Bunch of teenagers.

[newbagr]

who are u refering to as bunch of teenagers re-heat?have u seen many nicking chocolates and champagne?

[Re-Heat]

Answers:

a) a minority who drags down the good name of the rest; and
b) a minority who drags down the good name of the rest. Yes, I have witnessed.

[newbagr]

so you are referring to cabin crew then. Thank you. We get the picture.

[Shaka Zulu]

Who is we?
You seem to be the only one militant. At least PC767 thinks about the current situation.
You'll just throw your toys out of the pram and wish everybody else the same fate.
You already are talking about balloting, are you insane?
Have you seen the world around you?
Intereact with your union, your pay is not yet at stake even. Constructive dialogue is what grown ups do. But I guess that is just not your way is it?

[lovethesky]

i hear pilot rest seats, where they have bunks, are going. and all crew inc pilots to get same standard hotel rooms. all flying crew inc pilots on standard hourly rate, no sector pay.

[Hotel Mode]

i hear pilot rest seats, where they have bunks, are going. and all crew inc pilots to get same standard hotel rooms. all flying crew inc pilots on standard hourly rate, no sector pay.

Well we dont get sector pay and we dont get different rooms, and we've been on a standard hourly rate for 7 years. So great rumour.

As for rest seats, BA dont think it costs them anything significant, so its probably not worth us giving up as part of our savings.

[VS-LHRCSA]

I was of the understanding that room upgrades for flight crew were at the discretion of the hotel and of no charge to BA but I could be wrong. I used to work at a crew hotel before I joined and we only got the same wholesale rate for each room, regardless of room type.

As for rest seats for flight crew, I can understand why they are needed but I often wondered about the loss of two revenue club world seats on the likes of SIN.

In customer relations, it wasn't unheard of to deal with a down graded passenger because of flight crew rest. I remember dealing with a pax (High Value Gold Card) downgraded from FIRST to Club World because one FIRST seat was needed for flight crew rest. Very difficult to explain to the pax, especially when CW had about 30 spare seats on this flight but I guess it's in the agreement.

[MrBunker]

Hi VS,

We don't get a first seat for crew rest. There is a facility to move our seat to First at close out to prevent involuntary upgrades but we'd never get a seat at the expense of a downgraded First pax. Also re the hotel rooms, you're right, the upgrade is entirely at the discretion and expense of the hotel involved. All that exists in that arena as a direction from BA as to the order any free upgrades will be handled in.

MrB

[Hotel Mode]

In customer relations, it wasn't unheard of to deal with a down graded passenger because of flight crew rest. I remember dealing with a pax (High Value Gold Card) downgraded from FIRST to Club World because one FIRST seat was needed for flight crew rest. Very difficult to explain to the pax, especially when CW had about 30 spare seats on this flight but I guess it's in the agreement.

Something not quite right there. Theres never been an entitlement to a First class rest seat.

[VS-LHRCSA]

Just going by what the pax was told and what was recorded at the outstation when I investigated the claim. I'll admit, it did seem strange to me but it definitely happened on this one particular flight. I ended up cutting him a £1000 cheque plus an upgrade on his next flight. When I discussed this with colleagues, it seems that it was not an isolated incident. A call to the CSD hotline could probably bring up some quick statistics, if anyone is particularly interested.

[Hotel Mode]

You believed an outstation! Almost certainly they put one of their favoured people in instead knowing noone would ever refer it to flight ops. You'd be amazed to know that many outstations never have flights delayed by anything other than "flight crew request"

[Carnage Matey!]

Sounds like the outstation pulling a fast one and trying to cover up their own mistakes.

[VS-LHRCSA]

Executive Assistants in customer relations is kind of a department within a department that represent the Leadership Team (ie WW and MB) and therefore have access to a number of systems that can verify a whole range situations (NOMAD, Onboard Tracker, Amadeus, World Tracer, etc).

It's not a case of taking someone's word for it, it's a case of making investigations prior to going to legal. It's taken quite seriously by outstations (in this case DFW) as they can be held accountable in a court law. Most communication with pax is on WW or MB letterhead, therefore the department has to be sure of the facts before approving settlements like the one I mentioned.

[Carnage Matey!]

Flight crew are not entitled to a first class rest seat (and definitely not out of Dallas). Furthermore the flight crew rest seats are blocked out in the booking engine by the commercial department. The J cabin overbooking profile also takes into account the blocked seat(s). Something smells extremely fishy about this incident.

I'm particularly interested in what stats you can bring up on the matter, by PM if necessary. In my years in BA I've never encountered a situation such as that, but I have encountered plenty of situations where outstations are carrying out unauthorised upgrades of friends, acquaintances or even complete strangers, occasionally with a suspicion of backhanders being involved.

[VS-LHRCSA]

I'm on unpaid leave right now, so don't have access to the Nirvana system right now but basically all complaints are tagged by keyword and cross referrenced so it is easy to search the database for a common 'problem'.

You could call the CSD hotline and see if they can do a quick search for you. You probably won't have clearance to have access to the case details but you should be able to at least get a feel for how often it happens.

Like I said, the pax's story lines up with what DFW records showed. Beyond that, I can't say but I did manage to get approval for my settlement without having to write to the Captain and CSD, so there must have been some truth in it.

As for crooked upgrades, yes I know exactly what you mean but in this instance, without going into too much detail, it just wasn't the case.

Also, having worked on the ground, I can say it is absolutely awful to have to downgrade someone. I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to do it and on this particular flight, with such a low club load, pax would actually be better off in the club cabin with a pair or double pair of CW seats to themselves than in a full FIRST cabin - why bribe someone to upgrade?

But anyway, the thread is drifting, my apologies everyone.

[Hotel Mode]

Like I said, the pax's story lines up with what DFW records showed. Beyond that, I can't say but I did manage to get approval for my settlement without having to write to the Captain and CSD,

I'm sure DFW made sure they put the same excuse in the system as they told the pax. The fact you didnt have to write to CSD/Capt just makes me more suspicious. One way or the other DFW were fibbing.