BA and Project Columbus
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Olympus,
The question was posed to newbagr, as you quite rightly point out, but despite this, you then went on to suggest more or less exactly the same thing as newbagr....
so it now applies to you also.
Jsl
The question was posed to newbagr, as you quite rightly point out, but despite this, you then went on to suggest more or less exactly the same thing as newbagr....
Originally Posted by Olympus593
FWIW, if you think LGW are above further cuts then think again.
Jsl
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Olympus,
Get a grip and come off your high horse. If anything, I'm typing and rubbing my eyes with tiredness, having been up for over 24 hrs!
You started off with some good, reasoned points, even if we didn't neccessarily agree on everything. However, you now seem to have drifted off into the typical paranoia, assuming that everyone that doesn't agree with you must be full of glee about the possible downfall of LHR. For the last time, I have never said that I agree with the idea of the Columbus draft, and note that word, draft! I have merely stated that I will wait to see the final proposal before I make any decisions on what I think!
Just out of interest, I noticed you never answered my earlier question.
Jsl
Get a grip and come off your high horse. If anything, I'm typing and rubbing my eyes with tiredness, having been up for over 24 hrs!
You started off with some good, reasoned points, even if we didn't neccessarily agree on everything. However, you now seem to have drifted off into the typical paranoia, assuming that everyone that doesn't agree with you must be full of glee about the possible downfall of LHR. For the last time, I have never said that I agree with the idea of the Columbus draft, and note that word, draft! I have merely stated that I will wait to see the final proposal before I make any decisions on what I think!
Just out of interest, I noticed you never answered my earlier question.
I'm also not particularly interested in a tit for tat argument either, but I have to ask, if LHR say this coming, why didn't they attempt to stop it before BA could get the chance to discover whether it would work or not?
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us crew will get no support from flight crew on here, most pilots cant wait for us to be on the hourly rate. they cant wait for us to be screwed over.
well they are stupid if they think it will end with the crew, im sure they will be back to look at the pilots soon.
there is nothing to stop ba doing this to them, as there are now plenty of pilots out there looking for jobs.
well they are stupid if they think it will end with the crew, im sure they will be back to look at the pilots soon.
there is nothing to stop ba doing this to them, as there are now plenty of pilots out there looking for jobs.
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Interesting theory, but pilots are already on an hourly rate, already work close to 900 hours on short and long haul and are already benchmarked against all major Euro competitors. BA can't produce any of the Columbus justifications against us. There may be plenty of pilots looking for jobs, but BA don't need any more pilots.
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The hourly rate is not necessarily a bad thing. If BASSA can get the amount spent on allowances by BA secured and redistributed as an hourly rate then the only people who will lose out will be the senior CSDs and others who have a friend in scheduling.
Go to any premium destination and the station staff will tell you that the same faces keep cropping up. The rest do the destination payment places.
The hourly rate does not need to be £2.80 it could be much higher, it all depends on how smart the people negotiating with BA are. Oops! I forgot the same senior CSDs who are screwing the system for their own benefit are doing the negotiating. So it will be a strike and much vitriolic comms: and at the end BA will still get what they want with BASSA failing once again to use change as a positive thing.
Go to any premium destination and the station staff will tell you that the same faces keep cropping up. The rest do the destination payment places.
The hourly rate does not need to be £2.80 it could be much higher, it all depends on how smart the people negotiating with BA are. Oops! I forgot the same senior CSDs who are screwing the system for their own benefit are doing the negotiating. So it will be a strike and much vitriolic comms: and at the end BA will still get what they want with BASSA failing once again to use change as a positive thing.
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Juan,
Good post you are absolutely correct. Most crew don't understand how the hourly rate works and BASSA are happy to leave them in the dark.
If you can capture the same amount of money and distribute it differently then it is more equitable than the current system (work more earn more).
The other side of the equation is efficiency, simply put BA have to squeeze more work from there crew, the agreements are from another age and very hard to defend.
Good post you are absolutely correct. Most crew don't understand how the hourly rate works and BASSA are happy to leave them in the dark.
If you can capture the same amount of money and distribute it differently then it is more equitable than the current system (work more earn more).
The other side of the equation is efficiency, simply put BA have to squeeze more work from there crew, the agreements are from another age and very hard to defend.
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Of course they know how the hourly rate works. They'll all be paid £1 per hour, be too poor to go sick and have to sit round a candle in the winter to keep warm. BASSA told them in their "Diary of a crewmember 2012" publication at the last dispute! 
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I can see the overall pay package being slightly better than the current new entrants' package. It will likely involve a fairly significant hourly rate (incentive pay), and will also include incentive pay during holiday periods too. BA will save significant money by getting cabin crew holiday pay sorted out before the pilots win the last holiday pay entitlement tribunal appeal. A bidding system will also lessen sickness, whilst increasing efficiency with the mixed fleet. Overall, it is going to be good for the majority of cabin crew, whilst at the same time saving BA quite a considerable sum.
Note that none of this is based on known fact. It is all just my best guess.
Note that none of this is based on known fact. It is all just my best guess.
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Originally Posted by Carnage Matey!
course they know how the hourly rate works. They'll all be paid £1 per hour, be too poor to go sick and have to sit round a candle in the winter to keep warm. BASSA told them in their "Diary of a crewmember 2012" publication at the last dispute
Nah! You must have been reading the Amicus "Diary of a crewmember 2012". I don't remember the BASSA one saying that we would be able to afford a candle to sit round!
Jsl
P.S. And before I'm jumped on and accused of being overly gleeful again, I...AM....JOKING! Or is that not allowed now?
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Couldn't agree more. The vast majority of the crew at LHR couldn't care less about what was happening down at LGW.
As for mixed flying, most airlines are ACTUALLY doing it successfully! EK, EY, KL, LH, QR, SK, SQ to mention a few of them. One of the reasons why Mid-fleet wasn't much of a success was probably for having far too many fleets at one time; LGW EF, LGW WW, LHR EF, LHR WW and LHR MF!
They see it's working at LGW and they probably feel it can be done at LHR. After all, they are not running a charity.
I'm at WW and have decided not to say yes or no to Project Columbus until it has been presented. Most of the crew are extremely negative towards this but bare in mind NOTHING has been announced and therefore nobody can actually say what the "package" will be like. Perhaps it would be beneficial money-wise, especially for the ones on the new contract since 1997, which also of the majority at LHR are on.
As for mixed flying, most airlines are ACTUALLY doing it successfully! EK, EY, KL, LH, QR, SK, SQ to mention a few of them. One of the reasons why Mid-fleet wasn't much of a success was probably for having far too many fleets at one time; LGW EF, LGW WW, LHR EF, LHR WW and LHR MF!
They see it's working at LGW and they probably feel it can be done at LHR. After all, they are not running a charity.
I'm at WW and have decided not to say yes or no to Project Columbus until it has been presented. Most of the crew are extremely negative towards this but bare in mind NOTHING has been announced and therefore nobody can actually say what the "package" will be like. Perhaps it would be beneficial money-wise, especially for the ones on the new contract since 1997, which also of the majority at LHR are on.
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mixed flying
With regards to mixed flying, how would BA propose crew to type rated on A319/20/21 (one type), 757, 767, 777, 747 and soon dreamliner and A380? I'm sure there is a way, just wondering how? Surely they will have to wait until they get rid of the 76 and 400 which isn't in the immediate furture? These changes could take years? 
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I suspect the plan is Columbus crew on A319/320/321, A380 and B777 a.s.a.p., hence only 3 types. The 380 will be getting all the big box payment routes (HKG/SIN/BKK), the B777 can also cover some of the additional lucrative routes (eg NRT) if it makes a difference to the bottom line over operating a 747. The 787 (if it ever arrives!) is largely a 767/777 replacement so could be crewed by existing crew. The 787 could eventually be recrewed as numbers build. Eurofleet would probably see a more rapid change as I suspect there'd be quite a few volunteers amongst existing crew and all new entrant positions would be backfilled either by LGW crew or new entrants on the Columbus contract.
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Crew don't necessary need to be licensed on all aircraft types! A girl whom I used to work with at QR works at LH these days and flies A340, 737 and 777. Look at the numerous of aircraft types LH flies...
I also think 777 and 787 would be on the same license as the doors are exactly the same.
These are only simple formalities!
I also think 777 and 787 would be on the same license as the doors are exactly the same.
These are only simple formalities!
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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The hourly rate does not need to be £2.80 it could be much higher.