QCCA Pay and Conditions - A380
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Truth in the rumours...
Hey there, is there any truth in the rumours that a lot of QCCA crew who have come across from MAM have "left in droves" (as per rumours) as the conditions were so poor. Is this true or is it some myth that people have invented in order to make themselves feel better?
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Also.....Pegasus747....do you know what the company is gonna do about the lack of uptake onto the A380...given that only meager numbers of LH have chosen to work on it and there is a freeze on external recruitment? If the company don't want SH to apply for it, how are they gonna find numbers to crew the second A380 and indeed third and fourth? I understand the company can draft existing mainline QCCA onto the A380....but what sort of impact would that create on the number of crew on mainline fleet?
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Just heard on Crew Voice....Webster has announced emphatically three times that A380 secondments will not be offered to SH. It will be a purely LH crewed aircraft. SH will remain a pure 737 division with the odd A330 flying. The company are uncertain who will crew the 787 after they retire the aging 767, but I don't think it seems likely that it will be done by SH crew. The company are putting in orders for 100 more 737 (oh yippeee...NOT!). The Mothers Club will be rejoicing...they will be able to continue their "Cookies or Muffin?" service up to Ayers Rock, Karratha, Mt. Isa etc..... Oh pleeeeeease get me on the A380 before I neck myself.
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787/777 etc
In the LH EBA negotiations the FAAA INT division reached agreement with Qantas that any new aircraft that is in an "international configuration" ie to be flown internationally will be flown by part one crew of the LH Division.
If they purchase a 787 or any other aircraft in a domestic configuration it can be flown by any one but if it is flown Internationally in a Domestic Config it will be flown by the LH or INternational Division F/A under part 1 rules by crew employed under part 1 of the EBA.
INternational Flying by Qantas Mainline has been sewn up with quite watertight clauses. It's quite clear by renaming the divisions "international" and "Domestic" instead of LH and SH the Company has cleary redefined its intentions for the type of work they will be doing
If they purchase a 787 or any other aircraft in a domestic configuration it can be flown by any one but if it is flown Internationally in a Domestic Config it will be flown by the LH or INternational Division F/A under part 1 rules by crew employed under part 1 of the EBA.
INternational Flying by Qantas Mainline has been sewn up with quite watertight clauses. It's quite clear by renaming the divisions "international" and "Domestic" instead of LH and SH the Company has cleary redefined its intentions for the type of work they will be doing
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Transfer As CSM / CSS or get position while on A380
Just found out that if you get the position of CSM/CSS when you transfer to A380 from QAL, you retain the position when you return to main line flying.
If I am not correct QCCA & QCCUK are bot subsidiaries of the qantas group. I think the FAAA make up the rules as they go. When you transfered to QCCUK you had to return to the position you left (FA - FA) even though you may have been given the promotion before you left.
HOW IS THIS FAIR!!!
A group of us worked our ass's off in that base, and look how we are treated!
And before the comments fly in with " you knew that when you took the base" we did but also we did not know that FAAA/Company make up rules as they feel fit.... STUPID ME i guess!!
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A380 Promotions
A380 is covered by the LOng Haul EBA
The LOndon Bangkok and Auckland bases are covered by seperate agreements.
Promotions on A380 are available to crew employed in either part 1 or part 2 of the LOng Haul EBA
There is no rocket science in this
As far as London is concerned like BKK and AKL the sooner they close it down the better.
And as for those crew who became CSM and CSS in London you can apply for CSM and CSS as soon as you return to Long Haul. Many have missed out of course even though they have been CSM and CSS in LHR.
Its not for me to comment on why but perhaps the standard is lower in London???
Hmmmmmmm
The LOndon Bangkok and Auckland bases are covered by seperate agreements.
Promotions on A380 are available to crew employed in either part 1 or part 2 of the LOng Haul EBA
There is no rocket science in this
As far as London is concerned like BKK and AKL the sooner they close it down the better.
And as for those crew who became CSM and CSS in London you can apply for CSM and CSS as soon as you return to Long Haul. Many have missed out of course even though they have been CSM and CSS in LHR.
Its not for me to comment on why but perhaps the standard is lower in London???
Hmmmmmmm
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Qstar I don't know about LHR base but QCCA don't have the right to return to general pool. So really if they become CSS/CSM on A380 that's where they stay. It's only QAL crew who can return after 2 years and if they go back they should be allowed to return in category.
God help the QCCA crew that have to fly with some of the QF CSM's and CSS's going over to the 380. Office crawlers and QCC1 hangers on, alot of them. I know of a few of them and I would hate to be on the same aircraft as these ladder climbers. Keen to impress the managers! 
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QCCA
Hi all,
I have spent hours reading different information on this site and i have to say it is really interesting !!
I have applied for QCCA back in feb this year , and from what we were told on the day it all seems scarey . Threre seems to be so many different EBA and staff seem to have problems working with each other ??
I can understand of course the pay check these days is totaly important. The bank balance will be in for a shock thats for sure , but its what i have chosen to do .I so love the industry and generaly love helping people and i dont take on board (pardon the punn) attitude i just love meeting new people and being able to get a long with anyone. It does not bother me that the person next to me is on double the wage, so long as they are a nice person . So why oh why do so many people on here just totaly complain, complain, complain???? its called karma folks , get over it or get off it . Simple really and let others who really enjoy what they do JUST DO THERE JOB !!!!!!!!!
I have spent hours reading different information on this site and i have to say it is really interesting !!
I have applied for QCCA back in feb this year , and from what we were told on the day it all seems scarey . Threre seems to be so many different EBA and staff seem to have problems working with each other ??
I can understand of course the pay check these days is totaly important. The bank balance will be in for a shock thats for sure , but its what i have chosen to do .I so love the industry and generaly love helping people and i dont take on board (pardon the punn) attitude i just love meeting new people and being able to get a long with anyone. It does not bother me that the person next to me is on double the wage, so long as they are a nice person . So why oh why do so many people on here just totaly complain, complain, complain???? its called karma folks , get over it or get off it . Simple really and let others who really enjoy what they do JUST DO THERE JOB !!!!!!!!!
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beachbum66,
It's great you have that attitude and let me assure you that 99% of all crew felt exactly as you do now in the beginning. But once you've been online a little while and the processes of the job become second nature to you all the things you see discussed here will also become important to you too.
What you perceive as complaining on this board is a desire by all crew for equality and fairness in their workplace. Crewing isn't an easy life, it's quite often hard work with no breaks. Crew can work 9hrs straight without even a meal break for example. Unheard of in an office environment. Forget about coffee breaks...what are they?
It doesn't matter how much enthusiasm anyone brings to a job, eventually things like how you are valued by your employer, your coworkers and just your conditions of working become more important than anything else. You have to go there and face it day in and out. So please don't judge anyone harshly for expressing their concerns over what they feel is important to them.
It's great you have that attitude and let me assure you that 99% of all crew felt exactly as you do now in the beginning. But once you've been online a little while and the processes of the job become second nature to you all the things you see discussed here will also become important to you too.
What you perceive as complaining on this board is a desire by all crew for equality and fairness in their workplace. Crewing isn't an easy life, it's quite often hard work with no breaks. Crew can work 9hrs straight without even a meal break for example. Unheard of in an office environment. Forget about coffee breaks...what are they?
It doesn't matter how much enthusiasm anyone brings to a job, eventually things like how you are valued by your employer, your coworkers and just your conditions of working become more important than anything else. You have to go there and face it day in and out. So please don't judge anyone harshly for expressing their concerns over what they feel is important to them.
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AirborneSoon....here! here!..I totally agree with you. At the end of the day, we are all compassionate and caring people...after all that is why we have been chosen to look after people.
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Domestos
If you are not chasing $$$ go for the A380 but at the end of the day its just another aircraft and new destinations. If you earn what you say you do you will be taking at least a 50% pay cut the best you will ever earn on the A380 once the initial start up ends is around $1500-$1700 per fortnight including salary and allowances probally less in fact im talking max $$. You will certainly not be earning anywhere near $2K or more per fortnight. So if you are working just to pay the rent all will be cool but if you have other financial obligations you will be stuffed.
The A380 is high hour flying therefore your hours will be achieved quickly threfore less slip time once more aircraft come on-line therefore less allowances. I can appreciate you dont like domestic flying but really whats the point of going to L.A. or SIN if you have no money to spend anyway.
You will do it tough and there is NO going back your only hope to ahieve a better income is an up-grade and good luck with that as there are hundreds of crew that will be competing with you regardless of your experience. I mean all the brown noses who do every course, attend every wine thing and anything the company throws at them.
QCCA will always be available once recruitment starts again my advice to you is stick it out at domestic for now and see how things pan out A380 wise once more aircraft come on-line. I am on the A380 and I earn nothing at present as the aircraft is not flying and once it does, sure I will get long slips initially but management have told me that $1500-$1600 per fortnight is what I should expect (and they think that is acceptable). I know what I signed up for but please a cles check out chick earns more then that.
I wouldnt like to be in your position as I would hate the type of flying domestic is currently subject to but that is something that should be taken up with your FAAA, you are entitled to 25% of regional flying why are you not getting that? Maybe its because John Playford and the rest of the FAAA domestic gang are to busy having lunch with Qantas management and working out whats in it for them. Our FAAA is a strong united union that employs professionals to ensure our futures whereas domestics just bow down and lick the ass of Qantas management.
I can see no reason why short haul should not be allowed to take LWOP and operate the A380. But it maybe because Joanne Davidson has no interest in the A380 unlike the London base therefore its a non issue for the domestic FAAA as the last time I checked the 747 and London base was a long haul aircraft and long haul base. Didnt webster say on crew voice that the A380 was a long haul aircraft? I suppose the rules are different when it comes to the Divisional President of the Domestic FAAA.
If I was a domestic flight attendant I would be doing everything in my power to ensure 1 union ONLY looked after Qantas crew and that should be the REAL FAAA not this domestic/regional FAAA that only cares about their own futures and careers certainly not yours. The most flying davidson has proablly ever done was when she was in London but NOT over her dead body would she allow fee paying domestic members operate the A380 and dont tell me for a second she and her mob could not negotiate some sort of arrangement with Qantas because they could they just dont want to. They certainly didnt muck around whe Davidson wanted to go up to London.
All I am saying is think hard dont make a rash decision as you never know whats around the corner in this business. Good luck with your decision. The A380 is a new culture a mix of new crew and experienced crew the CSM's and CSS's are totally dicks and thats putting it nicely then you have the Qantas crew earning double our wage and rubbing it in our face day after day saying they would never work for our money and then you have the bright, happy crew that in a year or two will be doing a SIN jump as there life will become so sad they will see no other option.
Good luck and think hard because that the end of the day webster and the rest of them could give a rats about you, your life or your future all they care about is them, them and of course them.
If you are not chasing $$$ go for the A380 but at the end of the day its just another aircraft and new destinations. If you earn what you say you do you will be taking at least a 50% pay cut the best you will ever earn on the A380 once the initial start up ends is around $1500-$1700 per fortnight including salary and allowances probally less in fact im talking max $$. You will certainly not be earning anywhere near $2K or more per fortnight. So if you are working just to pay the rent all will be cool but if you have other financial obligations you will be stuffed.
The A380 is high hour flying therefore your hours will be achieved quickly threfore less slip time once more aircraft come on-line therefore less allowances. I can appreciate you dont like domestic flying but really whats the point of going to L.A. or SIN if you have no money to spend anyway.
You will do it tough and there is NO going back your only hope to ahieve a better income is an up-grade and good luck with that as there are hundreds of crew that will be competing with you regardless of your experience. I mean all the brown noses who do every course, attend every wine thing and anything the company throws at them.
QCCA will always be available once recruitment starts again my advice to you is stick it out at domestic for now and see how things pan out A380 wise once more aircraft come on-line. I am on the A380 and I earn nothing at present as the aircraft is not flying and once it does, sure I will get long slips initially but management have told me that $1500-$1600 per fortnight is what I should expect (and they think that is acceptable). I know what I signed up for but please a cles check out chick earns more then that.
I wouldnt like to be in your position as I would hate the type of flying domestic is currently subject to but that is something that should be taken up with your FAAA, you are entitled to 25% of regional flying why are you not getting that? Maybe its because John Playford and the rest of the FAAA domestic gang are to busy having lunch with Qantas management and working out whats in it for them. Our FAAA is a strong united union that employs professionals to ensure our futures whereas domestics just bow down and lick the ass of Qantas management.
I can see no reason why short haul should not be allowed to take LWOP and operate the A380. But it maybe because Joanne Davidson has no interest in the A380 unlike the London base therefore its a non issue for the domestic FAAA as the last time I checked the 747 and London base was a long haul aircraft and long haul base. Didnt webster say on crew voice that the A380 was a long haul aircraft? I suppose the rules are different when it comes to the Divisional President of the Domestic FAAA.
If I was a domestic flight attendant I would be doing everything in my power to ensure 1 union ONLY looked after Qantas crew and that should be the REAL FAAA not this domestic/regional FAAA that only cares about their own futures and careers certainly not yours. The most flying davidson has proablly ever done was when she was in London but NOT over her dead body would she allow fee paying domestic members operate the A380 and dont tell me for a second she and her mob could not negotiate some sort of arrangement with Qantas because they could they just dont want to. They certainly didnt muck around whe Davidson wanted to go up to London.
All I am saying is think hard dont make a rash decision as you never know whats around the corner in this business. Good luck with your decision. The A380 is a new culture a mix of new crew and experienced crew the CSM's and CSS's are totally dicks and thats putting it nicely then you have the Qantas crew earning double our wage and rubbing it in our face day after day saying they would never work for our money and then you have the bright, happy crew that in a year or two will be doing a SIN jump as there life will become so sad they will see no other option.
Good luck and think hard because that the end of the day webster and the rest of them could give a rats about you, your life or your future all they care about is them, them and of course them.
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25%?
I was going to say 25%? What 25%???
So far there are PER-CGK and PER-DPS 737, oh and those pesky AKL... except I didn't think they came under the banner of s/h regionals as they were done by Jetconnect?
S/H certainly do not have 25% of regionals... the only regionals getting done are all by senior crew and the only hope of getting one is if someone falls down the stairs right before a duty!!
I agree, we need to get regionals back, they were one of the good things about this job, who wants to have no job security to do day trips and the odd MEL-PER return?? Could go work for Virgin if we wanted to do day trips. Seems like they have union reps who actually do something- no coast-to-coast trips for them!
Poor darlings aren't even allowed to operate more than one type in a trip, we can do 737 to 767 to Airbus, and they wonder why we feel tired after those duties!
Anyway I digress. If casuals want to go to the A380 why not let them? Surely the flexibility the company so loves to go on about having would be used equally well on a long haul fleet? Do something like 12 or 16 days per month like the current domestic 20 day agreement... some MAM crew want something different... put people on the A380 who WANT to be there.... problem solved.... oh sorry too obvious!
So far there are PER-CGK and PER-DPS 737, oh and those pesky AKL... except I didn't think they came under the banner of s/h regionals as they were done by Jetconnect?
S/H certainly do not have 25% of regionals... the only regionals getting done are all by senior crew and the only hope of getting one is if someone falls down the stairs right before a duty!!
I agree, we need to get regionals back, they were one of the good things about this job, who wants to have no job security to do day trips and the odd MEL-PER return?? Could go work for Virgin if we wanted to do day trips. Seems like they have union reps who actually do something- no coast-to-coast trips for them!
Poor darlings aren't even allowed to operate more than one type in a trip, we can do 737 to 767 to Airbus, and they wonder why we feel tired after those duties!
Anyway I digress. If casuals want to go to the A380 why not let them? Surely the flexibility the company so loves to go on about having would be used equally well on a long haul fleet? Do something like 12 or 16 days per month like the current domestic 20 day agreement... some MAM crew want something different... put people on the A380 who WANT to be there.... problem solved.... oh sorry too obvious!
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Thanks QFQCCA
Hey there QFQCCA....thank you so much for your advice and to put things into perspective for me...I am very grateful you took the time and energy to write such an extensive reply.
The truth, whether we want to accept it or not (or living in denial or not) is that QCCA is the future of flying at Qantas. The aviation industry has changed; the world economy has changed; company focus and strategy has changed....and Qantas has changed. Whether we choose to stay at Domestic or International...either way, we are all dead men and women walking. There will be no A scale long haulers in a few years time (as more and more QCCA crew are hired to displace more and more A scalers and divisonal transfer to LH will be starved off to a crawl). There will be no A scale short haulers (as the 'new entity' ramps up employment and MAM casual contracts will be terminated and VR will shed off more A scalers). The flying for A scale LH will evaporate (eg. QF 31 will be done by A380 + four day LAX will be A380 + SIN/HKG/BKK all going to A380). The flying for A scale SH will disappear too (as A scale will do their daily and meaningless 2 leg Citiflyer to MEL and BNE whilst 'new entity' takes up multi-day trips, if any.....proof: MEL SH base was used as an experiment, quite openly by the company, to see how many 2 leg SYD returns they could cram into FA rosters). So you see...no matter where you choose to stay...SH or LH....we are all dead men and women walking. I don't mean to sound rude...but to think life is going to get any better at either of these A scale divisions is akin to living in denial.
I am just biting the bullet now rather than later....the same bullet all A scalers will eventually bite too. The ships are sinking....jump off now or jump off later, the choice is clear.
This is not to denergrate from what you have said QFACCA. I respect what you have said and I thank you for your advice. BTW...do I know you? I get the feeling, through your writing, that I know you personally and I think you know who I am.....
The truth, whether we want to accept it or not (or living in denial or not) is that QCCA is the future of flying at Qantas. The aviation industry has changed; the world economy has changed; company focus and strategy has changed....and Qantas has changed. Whether we choose to stay at Domestic or International...either way, we are all dead men and women walking. There will be no A scale long haulers in a few years time (as more and more QCCA crew are hired to displace more and more A scalers and divisonal transfer to LH will be starved off to a crawl). There will be no A scale short haulers (as the 'new entity' ramps up employment and MAM casual contracts will be terminated and VR will shed off more A scalers). The flying for A scale LH will evaporate (eg. QF 31 will be done by A380 + four day LAX will be A380 + SIN/HKG/BKK all going to A380). The flying for A scale SH will disappear too (as A scale will do their daily and meaningless 2 leg Citiflyer to MEL and BNE whilst 'new entity' takes up multi-day trips, if any.....proof: MEL SH base was used as an experiment, quite openly by the company, to see how many 2 leg SYD returns they could cram into FA rosters). So you see...no matter where you choose to stay...SH or LH....we are all dead men and women walking. I don't mean to sound rude...but to think life is going to get any better at either of these A scale divisions is akin to living in denial.
I am just biting the bullet now rather than later....the same bullet all A scalers will eventually bite too. The ships are sinking....jump off now or jump off later, the choice is clear.
This is not to denergrate from what you have said QFACCA. I respect what you have said and I thank you for your advice. BTW...do I know you? I get the feeling, through your writing, that I know you personally and I think you know who I am.....
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little red hat stated
regional flying was never yours in the first place! so get that into your heads!
You were and are domestics, and now have been allocated that flying back!
I agree, we need to get regionals back, they were one of the good things about this job
You were and are domestics, and now have been allocated that flying back!
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totally agree
regionals always belong to longhaul. full stop.
and to QFQCCA international flying belongs to longhaul crew. full stop.
dont whinga about joanne or any other faaa people. its always been domestic or international flying.
and to QFQCCA international flying belongs to longhaul crew. full stop.
dont whinga about joanne or any other faaa people. its always been domestic or international flying.
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But the aagreement states 25% of regionals are to be crewed by "domestic" crew and the balanace by "long haul" an agreement is an agreement. I am sure you would be wanting the company to adhere to any agreement in place so I dont think we are asking to much. As for what QFQCCA has had to say I agree 100% about the FAAA. Lets give our money to a union that will actually get off their bum and do some work for us.