QCCA Pay and Conditions - A380
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The Other Foot
When the domestics were given regional flying they exhibited a certain smugness and were indifferent to the pain experienced by LH in losing these flights.
Now the shoe is on the other foot you expect sympathy.
Domestic is as it says...flying domestically inside Australia.
Q.Why do you think it was given back to us?
A.We do it better.
Now the shoe is on the other foot you expect sympathy.
Domestic is as it says...flying domestically inside Australia.
Q.Why do you think it was given back to us?
A.We do it better.
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packrat
I agree with you 100% but I was certainly not one of those people and Long Haul always received their agreed percentage of flying its just that the balance of the regional flying pool was given to short haul. Now short haul are not even getting their agreed 25%.
And no the reason why it was given back to you was certainly not because you do it better it was one reason only and that was QCCA.
I agree with you 100% but I was certainly not one of those people and Long Haul always received their agreed percentage of flying its just that the balance of the regional flying pool was given to short haul. Now short haul are not even getting their agreed 25%.
And no the reason why it was given back to you was certainly not because you do it better it was one reason only and that was QCCA.
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12 months ago, every flight attendant in the company saw LH as a dying entity. Most of us expected LH and SH to be merged together, and fly under the SH award.
The introduction of QCCA saved the LH division, because basically it meant the international flying could be done cheaper than it could be under the shorthaul award. The company only cares about reducing the cost base, plain and simple.
So, in the end LH got back most of the international flying, but the introduction of QCCA has come as an enormous cost to the flight attendant group. I guess in a few years time LH crew can ask themselves - Was it worth it? Maybe some already know the answer to this question!!
The question I would like an answer to is this;
Who's idea was it to start up QCCA? Did the company simply put it on the table and say 'take it or leave it'. Or was the whole thing introduced by the LH FAAA as the last desperate measure to save the entire division?
The introduction of QCCA saved the LH division, because basically it meant the international flying could be done cheaper than it could be under the shorthaul award. The company only cares about reducing the cost base, plain and simple.
So, in the end LH got back most of the international flying, but the introduction of QCCA has come as an enormous cost to the flight attendant group. I guess in a few years time LH crew can ask themselves - Was it worth it? Maybe some already know the answer to this question!!
The question I would like an answer to is this;
Who's idea was it to start up QCCA? Did the company simply put it on the table and say 'take it or leave it'. Or was the whole thing introduced by the LH FAAA as the last desperate measure to save the entire division?
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i really dont know how many times i have to say this before it sinks in to some of you thick heads.
The London base, the BKK base and the AKL base are not covered by the LOng Haul EBA. You can fly the A380 if you go to London as they will be flying it.
The Long Haul EBA has totally , 1000% locked it up for part1 and part2 flight attendants covered by the LH EBA in the LONG HAUL division.
You can take leave without pay to go and work at coles, or collect garbage for your local council, or you can take LWOP to go to london or even do some study or take a year off. YOU CANT go to A380 however as it is just not available as negotiated by the Long Haul FAAA
Now if the company want to do give you the opportunity to fly it under part 1 or part 2 conditions like LOng HAul crew have, no one will mind at all. In fact LH crew would say good on you if you want to do it. It would have no effect whatsoever on LH crew. Especially those that dont want to fly it.
Your problem is the Company doesnt want you. Your Union doesnt want to lose you as fee paying members and thats about all there is to say on it.
You can whinge and moan to your hearts content but just as MAMs cannot get full time jobs as SH crew ,as Qantas doesnt want that...so SH crew cannot either come to LH or transfer to A380
Thats it. You need to take it up with Qantas management as they are the only ones standing in your way.
Its their business , their aircraft and they dont want SH crew doing international flying. FULL STOP.
As for the 25%....you need to get up the SH FAAA and stop whinging on here as nobody has the statistics here to prove one way or the other. All i know is that the LH FAAA did a good job protecting the work of its fee paying members
The London base, the BKK base and the AKL base are not covered by the LOng Haul EBA. You can fly the A380 if you go to London as they will be flying it.
The Long Haul EBA has totally , 1000% locked it up for part1 and part2 flight attendants covered by the LH EBA in the LONG HAUL division.
You can take leave without pay to go and work at coles, or collect garbage for your local council, or you can take LWOP to go to london or even do some study or take a year off. YOU CANT go to A380 however as it is just not available as negotiated by the Long Haul FAAA
Now if the company want to do give you the opportunity to fly it under part 1 or part 2 conditions like LOng HAul crew have, no one will mind at all. In fact LH crew would say good on you if you want to do it. It would have no effect whatsoever on LH crew. Especially those that dont want to fly it.
Your problem is the Company doesnt want you. Your Union doesnt want to lose you as fee paying members and thats about all there is to say on it.
You can whinge and moan to your hearts content but just as MAMs cannot get full time jobs as SH crew ,as Qantas doesnt want that...so SH crew cannot either come to LH or transfer to A380
Thats it. You need to take it up with Qantas management as they are the only ones standing in your way.
Its their business , their aircraft and they dont want SH crew doing international flying. FULL STOP.
As for the 25%....you need to get up the SH FAAA and stop whinging on here as nobody has the statistics here to prove one way or the other. All i know is that the LH FAAA did a good job protecting the work of its fee paying members
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This wasn't very popular, so in order to keep our present conditions, a "b-scale" was negotiated.
The company was always going to introduce a "b-scale" for the A380 though.
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Pegasus has summed it up perfectly!
It really is that simple guys....... the beehive brigade have had their day!
The A380 is basically for the new QCCA.
QLA will have a 2 year stint on it, to set it up and get it going then they have to come back to QLA or stay on the QCCA conditions, including QCCA pay.
The only thing that puzzles me is that the President of the FAAA and another FAAA official has decided to go on it!
To many of us that is not setting a good example, its quite often a topic of discussion among-st crew! No one understands their logic!
It really is that simple guys....... the beehive brigade have had their day!
The A380 is basically for the new QCCA.
QLA will have a 2 year stint on it, to set it up and get it going then they have to come back to QLA or stay on the QCCA conditions, including QCCA pay.
The only thing that puzzles me is that the President of the FAAA and another FAAA official has decided to go on it!
To many of us that is not setting a good example, its quite often a topic of discussion among-st crew! No one understands their logic!
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As FAAA President/Officials, how much time will they actually spend flying? Will they do a 240hr roster each bid period, or will they only fly now and then, and spend most of their time in the office.
And Cartexchange... The Beehive brigade have had their day. They all retired years ago. Shorthaul mainly consists of ex-longhaulers and MAM casuals. You would have to look hard to find any ex TAA hosties.
And Cartexchange... The Beehive brigade have had their day. They all retired years ago. Shorthaul mainly consists of ex-longhaulers and MAM casuals. You would have to look hard to find any ex TAA hosties.
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Domestos,
I am qcca a380 and i think it is the best descision i have made. I should start by saying i am not a fresh qcca that has been flying for 2months and thinks that the wage is great and its the easiest job on earth. I have been flying over three yrs and know the way things work.
Yes the aircraft is great to work on however there is a big difference in attitude onboard, everyone wants to be there. I am not saying mainline does not however i have met my fair share that seem like they would rather be anywhere but an aircraft, i realise they are generally in minority however as we all know moods are infectious and i have had plenty of miserable flights thanks to one person.. This may well change as crew are allocated to a380 however at the moment things are very positive and most are having a good time.
As for seniority im glad to be rid of it.. I truly believe everyone should have recognition of their years of service to the company and be rewared however there seem to be a certain few that have seniorty and think they should get everything they want but also that qcca with no seniority should get nothing. Knowing that everyone on board is equal makes life alot easier for all involved.
I do not mean for this to sound like mainline bashing because it is not i love working the more senior crew however i just think that the culture at a380 will be a little more positive and equal than that of mainline.
I am qcca a380 and i think it is the best descision i have made. I should start by saying i am not a fresh qcca that has been flying for 2months and thinks that the wage is great and its the easiest job on earth. I have been flying over three yrs and know the way things work.
Yes the aircraft is great to work on however there is a big difference in attitude onboard, everyone wants to be there. I am not saying mainline does not however i have met my fair share that seem like they would rather be anywhere but an aircraft, i realise they are generally in minority however as we all know moods are infectious and i have had plenty of miserable flights thanks to one person.. This may well change as crew are allocated to a380 however at the moment things are very positive and most are having a good time.
As for seniority im glad to be rid of it.. I truly believe everyone should have recognition of their years of service to the company and be rewared however there seem to be a certain few that have seniorty and think they should get everything they want but also that qcca with no seniority should get nothing. Knowing that everyone on board is equal makes life alot easier for all involved.
I do not mean for this to sound like mainline bashing because it is not i love working the more senior crew however i just think that the culture at a380 will be a little more positive and equal than that of mainline.
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If QAL crew decide to remain after the two years or extend for another 2 years , or stay indefinitely they will retain the salary top up arrangement.
Its true that the Part 2 work rules will apply to the QAL crew who decide to fly A380, however the salary maintenance provisions will continue to apply.
As for the President of the FAAA flying on the A380, over 1000 crew attended the FAAA EBA meetings when the proposal for the second tier was discussed. At that time the FAAA President indicated that he would go to A380 and work on the Part 2 conditions.
He indicated that it was a matter of personal credibility. If you negotiate conditions the least you can do is work under those work rules. I recall him saying quite publicly that the only way you will ever improve QCCA/Part2 conditions is if senior FAAA official are working under those conditions.
QCCA crew are currenly working less than 200 hours a roster on a planned basis and no one has been planned over 220 since QCCA started.
In fact the hours for QCCA crew are not much more than QAL crew. On the A380 it seems that the average hours will be around 210 hours a roster.
The easiest way to secure job security would be that all crew do 210 hours a roster, and that was discussed with long Haul Crew prior to the EBA and the FAAA was resoundinly told to do anything other than increasing hours for exsiting crew .
the FAAA delivered everything that members asked for. No increase in hours, no pay reducation, no reduction in meal allowances and a continuation of the current meal allowance formula, and a retention of the redundacy provision, regain the lost regional flying and it goes on and on...
The FAAA officials flying on A380 have already contributed to new members joining the FAAA on a daily basis by their very presence and any crew that fly A380 are very glad that FAAA official are on it. It makes them feel a lot more secure as it means whatever the company does affects FAAA officials too and my advice is that the FAAA officials will be doing flying like they always have. There is only one full time FAAA official and that is the Secretary as it has been for ever.
there is much better chances of getting A380 for more crew if the FAAA and its members are actively involved in it. Its covered by the same EBA that crew voted for and there are QAL and QCCA crew on that aircraft that need representation and will definitely get it.
The FAAA aim is 100% membership from what i hear
Its true that the Part 2 work rules will apply to the QAL crew who decide to fly A380, however the salary maintenance provisions will continue to apply.
As for the President of the FAAA flying on the A380, over 1000 crew attended the FAAA EBA meetings when the proposal for the second tier was discussed. At that time the FAAA President indicated that he would go to A380 and work on the Part 2 conditions.
He indicated that it was a matter of personal credibility. If you negotiate conditions the least you can do is work under those work rules. I recall him saying quite publicly that the only way you will ever improve QCCA/Part2 conditions is if senior FAAA official are working under those conditions.
QCCA crew are currenly working less than 200 hours a roster on a planned basis and no one has been planned over 220 since QCCA started.
In fact the hours for QCCA crew are not much more than QAL crew. On the A380 it seems that the average hours will be around 210 hours a roster.
The easiest way to secure job security would be that all crew do 210 hours a roster, and that was discussed with long Haul Crew prior to the EBA and the FAAA was resoundinly told to do anything other than increasing hours for exsiting crew .
the FAAA delivered everything that members asked for. No increase in hours, no pay reducation, no reduction in meal allowances and a continuation of the current meal allowance formula, and a retention of the redundacy provision, regain the lost regional flying and it goes on and on...
The FAAA officials flying on A380 have already contributed to new members joining the FAAA on a daily basis by their very presence and any crew that fly A380 are very glad that FAAA official are on it. It makes them feel a lot more secure as it means whatever the company does affects FAAA officials too and my advice is that the FAAA officials will be doing flying like they always have. There is only one full time FAAA official and that is the Secretary as it has been for ever.
there is much better chances of getting A380 for more crew if the FAAA and its members are actively involved in it. Its covered by the same EBA that crew voted for and there are QAL and QCCA crew on that aircraft that need representation and will definitely get it.
The FAAA aim is 100% membership from what i hear
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One of the major
issues the FAAA has not achieved is better access to the 380 for its current membership. to go through a selection process if you are a CSM/CSS for a job you already have is a giagantic JOKE. and what i can see so far is unless you are part of the "boys" you have little chance either
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well if someone has a suggestion as to how to sort it out i am sure the FAAA would like to know.
Given that the company will not have a bar of seniority on A380 and 30 CSMs apply for 12 positions initially how would you work out who gets it and who doesnt????...other than of course seniority
Given that the company will not have a bar of seniority on A380 and 30 CSMs apply for 12 positions initially how would you work out who gets it and who doesnt????...other than of course seniority
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I would prefer to see CSMs get the gig with at least a few years under their belt as CSMs.
A few of the CSMs who got the initial A380 job had only been CSMs for a few months.
I'm not saying that they are not capable as CSMs, just that they should have a balance of experience and brown nosing on their resume, especially considering the number of crew that will be under them.
A few of the CSMs who got the initial A380 job had only been CSMs for a few months.
I'm not saying that they are not capable as CSMs, just that they should have a balance of experience and brown nosing on their resume, especially considering the number of crew that will be under them.
Ok after having been on this site for over a year and having done many flights, both long haul and short haul and having had to look at the long haul crew kissy kissying when they meet prior to a flight, yuk !!!!!!, grow up and realise that you all have a job to do and that you all wear the same uniform and from experience do the job very well.
Grow up and stop whinging.
PS I am the husband of a 30+ year ex hostie who still loves her job.
ps seniority is great for bidding and staff travel.
Grow up and stop whinging.
PS I am the husband of a 30+ year ex hostie who still loves her job.
ps seniority is great for bidding and staff travel.
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This thread seems to have now run its' course - and surprise, surprise, as the usual suspects return, the tone changes, the abuse and personal comments start once more and the QF LH/SH/MAM/Dixon hamster wheel starts squeaking all over again.
Back to Dunnunda forum please where what some of you regard as OZ charm (and the rest of the world regards as coarse, insular, charmless and bereft of wit whining) is tolerated - why, I'll never know.
Back to Dunnunda forum please where what some of you regard as OZ charm (and the rest of the world regards as coarse, insular, charmless and bereft of wit whining) is tolerated - why, I'll never know.
