Virgin Blue EBA
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: melbourne
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interesting
hmmmm very interesting atm....
ive heard nothing good about this eba since yesterday... even as i was leaving the crew room and on msn last night from cs friends....
hmmm kitty blue you do sound a little like management.. or someone that has never flown before... and we all know management watch us in here like hawks in here...
is this eba going to stop vb giving me a 4 day trip,one day off,another 4 day trip then how generous 2 days off and all early sign on's...if it does ill consider voteing it cause my body just cant take this atm....
if it doesnt.... theres going to be alot of sick crew... and whats this i hear something about longer days and more than 4 day trip?
ive heard nothing good about this eba since yesterday... even as i was leaving the crew room and on msn last night from cs friends....
hmmm kitty blue you do sound a little like management.. or someone that has never flown before... and we all know management watch us in here like hawks in here...
is this eba going to stop vb giving me a 4 day trip,one day off,another 4 day trip then how generous 2 days off and all early sign on's...if it does ill consider voteing it cause my body just cant take this atm....
if it doesnt.... theres going to be alot of sick crew... and whats this i hear something about longer days and more than 4 day trip?
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Australia
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I wonder why some people suggest Kittyblue is VB management. Is being open to change and new challenges all that bad? I think that before we get all negative we should logically look at all the positives and negatives points in this new EBA. For example, I hear all the time people who want to go part time and expectant mothers wishing they had more maternity leave. Wouldn't these people look at the new EBA with more favourableeyes? Other people want an improved PBS and more flexibility...
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mosman
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I think that before we get all negative we should logically look at all the positives and negatives points in this new EBA.
Then vote
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Brisbane
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Notalwayssunny,
Increased maternity leave seems to be the only thing you bring up that is good about the proposed EBA. As someone who can speak from experience here I don't neccessarily think that increased maternity leave is such a deal maker. Not all of us can afford to take so much time off work and live with only one income coming into the home.
Being guaranteed part time is a much sweeter prospect. You are then able to balance contributing financially to the home economy as well as being there and raising your new baby.
So if increased maternity/ paternity is all this EBA is about then I think the company has missed it mark- big time.
Increased maternity leave seems to be the only thing you bring up that is good about the proposed EBA. As someone who can speak from experience here I don't neccessarily think that increased maternity leave is such a deal maker. Not all of us can afford to take so much time off work and live with only one income coming into the home.
Being guaranteed part time is a much sweeter prospect. You are then able to balance contributing financially to the home economy as well as being there and raising your new baby.
So if increased maternity/ paternity is all this EBA is about then I think the company has missed it mark- big time.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Australia
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EBA
Overall I think it isn't as bad as some people are trying to say it is. I guess over many years in the workforce I gained a little perspective. I like the flexibility this new EBA would offer, and I'm not concerned over the sick leave issue. My experience accessing leave has been positive; however I understand some people use more leave than others and this is why they might look at the sick leave issue with a little apprehension. I also understand, as I have experienced previously, that incorporating regional flying requires different work rules. The bottom line is that I would be working an acceptable number of hours, with 10 days off a month and I might even get the opportunity to have more days off etc.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: all over the shop
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Originally Posted by notalwayssmiling
acceptable number of hours
12 Hour 4 sector days are not acceptable to me, no matter which way I look at it - yes you can "bid" to avoid them, but there is no reference in the EBA to "80% over 3 months" satisfaction of the PBS - so the Bid to avoid argument holds no water whatsoever.
130 hours per 28 days is fine, even though it says we can be rostered up to 135 - and, if I read this correctly (am going to check it again) overtime can be forced on you, up to 140 hours per month
Join Date: Feb 2007
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The way I look at it is: How many times in a month can I work 12 hour days before I run out of hours? 10.6, so the worst case scenario would be working 10 1/2 days. I seriusly don't think that every trip in a roster will be 12 hour days. I will need to confirm this, but I think that if one does a split shift the break would count as hours. So one might just do 2 sectors in a 12 hour shift, but as I said this is one for the roadshow.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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OMG - The eba, not happy at all. I have only found 1 good thing about it so far and thats C/S rates on the ground after 28 weeks pregnant not the admin wage - as far as everything else!!! Questionable.
I would rather stay on the old eba - better the devil you know. Everything that has previously been discussed with CCDM and the union reps aren't in the new one. Very disappointed.
I would rather stay on the old eba - better the devil you know. Everything that has previously been discussed with CCDM and the union reps aren't in the new one. Very disappointed.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UJ
Age: 41
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Well i'm in Cairns...and flew down with Virgin Blue like i said I was going to.
the supervisor was a comedian... did all the jokes...but went to far at one point!!
Was ok to an extent, but they should tone it down.
the supervisor was a comedian... did all the jokes...but went to far at one point!!
Was ok to an extent, but they should tone it down.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: 38,000 ft
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I have just read the new EBA and can tell you already that I have at least a couple of pages for the FAAA to read and if I feel comfortable I might even talk to my DM about it. I think however I wont be going to the forums as I dont want to get stood down like a certain pilot for expressing my opinion.
They talk of fatigue management on the one hand then roster us up to 14 hours. They give us 12 hours rest at home. 10.5 hours before being paid overtime. I also read into the CAP371 table the possibility of MEL-DRW-MEL with one crew , the duty time of 10.35 ( thats 5 minutes overtime and a measly dinner allowance instead of the $90 we get now). MEL-PER-MEL would also be possible and they will be taking away half of the current allowance for this trip as well.
The allowances are less than what TC get even though we stay at the same hotel??? Does the ATO discriminate against us or is this another way for the company to save money through CC ignorance.
Am I wrong in thinking that this document hasnt been finished. Surely there is much more work to be done before the majority will agree.
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Kittyblue I do have little faith in the company because they just reduced the crew compliment which is a productivity increase from our department of surely between 10 and 20%. These new work rules are going to further increase productivity by who knows how much. Surely we are entitled to stick our hands out and ask for some of this when profits have returned to record highs. A 3% pay rise is just under CPI so surely a 5% increase + 2% profit share would be more like what we should be getting??? Also as they are still turning over a large amount of CC shouldnt they be looking to fix the EBA so as to try and retain some of these people. Dont managment want to reduce sick leave. I am sure that they above mentioned flights will see a further increase in sick leave.
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I know I can work under the new rules if they get voted in but we have a chance to change things now instead of complaining about them for the next 5 years. So once again I implore everyone to read this document and ask questions so that you understand exactly what other CC & CS's are talking about.
They talk of fatigue management on the one hand then roster us up to 14 hours. They give us 12 hours rest at home. 10.5 hours before being paid overtime. I also read into the CAP371 table the possibility of MEL-DRW-MEL with one crew , the duty time of 10.35 ( thats 5 minutes overtime and a measly dinner allowance instead of the $90 we get now). MEL-PER-MEL would also be possible and they will be taking away half of the current allowance for this trip as well.
The allowances are less than what TC get even though we stay at the same hotel??? Does the ATO discriminate against us or is this another way for the company to save money through CC ignorance.
Am I wrong in thinking that this document hasnt been finished. Surely there is much more work to be done before the majority will agree.
--
Kittyblue I do have little faith in the company because they just reduced the crew compliment which is a productivity increase from our department of surely between 10 and 20%. These new work rules are going to further increase productivity by who knows how much. Surely we are entitled to stick our hands out and ask for some of this when profits have returned to record highs. A 3% pay rise is just under CPI so surely a 5% increase + 2% profit share would be more like what we should be getting??? Also as they are still turning over a large amount of CC shouldnt they be looking to fix the EBA so as to try and retain some of these people. Dont managment want to reduce sick leave. I am sure that they above mentioned flights will see a further increase in sick leave.
--
I know I can work under the new rules if they get voted in but we have a chance to change things now instead of complaining about them for the next 5 years. So once again I implore everyone to read this document and ask questions so that you understand exactly what other CC & CS's are talking about.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Sinala1 -
Nice isnt it. There also saying that its up to the individual to monitor this and let the company know if they have gone over and dont want to do any more. I may have also read that if they cant get anyone to do your remaining hours then you have to do it.
Also what do people interpret about this training credit hours thing.
130 hours per 28 days is fine, even though it says we can be rostered up to 135 - and, if I read this correctly (am going to check it again) overtime can be forced on you, up to 140 hours per month
Also what do people interpret about this training credit hours thing.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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I think however I wont be going to the forums as I dont want to get stood down like a certain pilot for expressing my opinion.
____________________________________________________________ _
I'm also worried about as well. A few of my friends have already started taking notes to direct to the FAAA and the company and I will too - but I really don't know if I want to be stood down for asking questions about my future work rules! Its a shame really because almost 7 years ago this isn't what I signed up for - yes I can always leave "but it will get better"!
The extension of MAT Leave - well really it is only an extension of 3 months eg; on our current EBA we get 12 months with 3 months as an emergency extension (not advertised but avaliable) - while speaking to the powers to be during this whole situation it was indicated that it would be 2 years as well as a doubling of the paid MAT leave for both full and parttime- which hasn't happened. Okay it doesn't really effect many males out there but I haven't gotten any further with the reading.......
Pay rise! Once again with talks with the powers to be - it was more than 3% in the begining. I don't know about anyother C/S out there but I physically can't work any harder than I am already working. 8% is over the life of the EBA! You do the math, it may be early but I'm still feeling disappointed. Isn't the CPI 3.8% or has it come down drastically in the last few weeks.
____________________________________________________________ _
I'm also worried about as well. A few of my friends have already started taking notes to direct to the FAAA and the company and I will too - but I really don't know if I want to be stood down for asking questions about my future work rules! Its a shame really because almost 7 years ago this isn't what I signed up for - yes I can always leave "but it will get better"!
The extension of MAT Leave - well really it is only an extension of 3 months eg; on our current EBA we get 12 months with 3 months as an emergency extension (not advertised but avaliable) - while speaking to the powers to be during this whole situation it was indicated that it would be 2 years as well as a doubling of the paid MAT leave for both full and parttime- which hasn't happened. Okay it doesn't really effect many males out there but I haven't gotten any further with the reading.......
Pay rise! Once again with talks with the powers to be - it was more than 3% in the begining. I don't know about anyother C/S out there but I physically can't work any harder than I am already working. 8% is over the life of the EBA! You do the math, it may be early but I'm still feeling disappointed. Isn't the CPI 3.8% or has it come down drastically in the last few weeks.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Brisbane
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Wirgin Blue- whilst you are looking at the duty hour limitations have a look at clause 6.4.4.
Correct me if I am reading this wrong, but it looks to me tht any training duties we do (EP's and CRM and Rirst Aid etc) are not included in our duty hours for the month. - They call it 'Additional (non - credit) Training' .
So you can do your 135 flying/standby hours for the roster and then also be rostered EP's and CRM on top of that.
Fatigue Management my butt!!!
Correct me if I am reading this wrong, but it looks to me tht any training duties we do (EP's and CRM and Rirst Aid etc) are not included in our duty hours for the month. - They call it 'Additional (non - credit) Training' .
So you can do your 135 flying/standby hours for the roster and then also be rostered EP's and CRM on top of that.
Fatigue Management my butt!!!
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Your FAAA Virgin Blue Team members are confident that the outcomes negotiated meet the various needs of Cabin Crew and strongly recommend that you vote in favour of the Agreement presented.
I found the above on the FAAA website and find it quite disturbing. I thought they were supposed to represent our best interests, not use subtle coercion to sway votes. Do they really think that this is the best we can get??
Don't believe the hype. If this doesn't get voted in, then they'll have to come up with something better and we will remain on the same conditions we're on at the moment - which are much better than what is being proposed!
I found the above on the FAAA website and find it quite disturbing. I thought they were supposed to represent our best interests, not use subtle coercion to sway votes. Do they really think that this is the best we can get??
Don't believe the hype. If this doesn't get voted in, then they'll have to come up with something better and we will remain on the same conditions we're on at the moment - which are much better than what is being proposed!
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Can someone please tell me exactly where to find the new eba on the intranet as I don't want to wait anymore for it to arrive in the mail. is it under the resource centre???
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Hi everyone
I still havent seen the EBA! Can someone please give me a run down?
Like soneone else said previously in this post, are they going to guarantee the 80% success rate of the bidding system?
None of us have seen this bidding system before, so I want some sort of guarantee that it is going to work the way the company are sugar coating it. I think the success of this EBA is going to depend on how good the bidding system is. I dont want to vote for something that is 'supposed' to be fantastic.
What is the general feeling folks?
I still havent seen the EBA! Can someone please give me a run down?
Like soneone else said previously in this post, are they going to guarantee the 80% success rate of the bidding system?
None of us have seen this bidding system before, so I want some sort of guarantee that it is going to work the way the company are sugar coating it. I think the success of this EBA is going to depend on how good the bidding system is. I dont want to vote for something that is 'supposed' to be fantastic.
What is the general feeling folks?
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Hey guys,
the EBA hasn't seemed to make it onto the FAAA website. And as for the company Intranet- I could access it yesterday morning, but that link seems to have gone missing.
the EBA hasn't seemed to make it onto the FAAA website. And as for the company Intranet- I could access it yesterday morning, but that link seems to have gone missing.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Where is it to be found?
I cannot seem to find the EBA anywhere on the intranet or the FAAA site - please let us know where it can be found (clearly, it is there somewhere as many have seen it already).
I wholehartedly agree that kittyblue and notalwayssunny are possibly management (although their spelling and grammar leaves alot to be desired - then again, maybe that was intentional.....!)
I personally can't wait to get my hands on this thing - we all need to pick it apart and let management know what we don't like. There sounds as if there are so many things that the FAAA and management didn't listen to when we listed what WE wanted in this document. I would be extremely annoyed if a few extra part-time positions and some extra mat leave benefits got an overall poor document voted through........careful guys!!!!!
bvb
I wholehartedly agree that kittyblue and notalwayssunny are possibly management (although their spelling and grammar leaves alot to be desired - then again, maybe that was intentional.....!)
I personally can't wait to get my hands on this thing - we all need to pick it apart and let management know what we don't like. There sounds as if there are so many things that the FAAA and management didn't listen to when we listed what WE wanted in this document. I would be extremely annoyed if a few extra part-time positions and some extra mat leave benefits got an overall poor document voted through........careful guys!!!!!
bvb