Virgin Blue EBA
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Brisbane
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With the reduction of crew on the -800 saving over $20 Million over the life of the agreement; the increase of seats on some -800s to 189 (and still operating at only 4 crew - even though, as mentioned above, the standard CASA requirement would have been for 6); the reduction of overnights; and the decrease in overnight payments, hotel costs and transport costs - there is going to want to be a lot of give to counter all the take!
I would like to know where our union was when this 4 crew on an 800 was presented.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: 38,000 ft
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From what I can gather from the FAAA, other members and delegates have said that they dont mind the new system so unless CASA changes there mind it is here to stay.
I noticed in the CCON's it now says that you can delay departure because the overwing brief hasnt been done, only to move pax into the exit rows. So what happens if you have to move someone out whilst the aircraft is moving back out of the bay and your supposed to be arming your door. What would the company do if whilst you were moving pax around they fell and injured themselves???
I would also like to know why it is safe for R2 to move to the overwing whilst the aircraft is coming into the bay, what would the company do if R2 was injured if the aircraft had to stop suddenly short of the bay???
"Safety First"...I have my doubts.
I noticed in the CCON's it now says that you can delay departure because the overwing brief hasnt been done, only to move pax into the exit rows. So what happens if you have to move someone out whilst the aircraft is moving back out of the bay and your supposed to be arming your door. What would the company do if whilst you were moving pax around they fell and injured themselves???
I would also like to know why it is safe for R2 to move to the overwing whilst the aircraft is coming into the bay, what would the company do if R2 was injured if the aircraft had to stop suddenly short of the bay???
"Safety First"...I have my doubts.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New Zealand
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Although this doesnt justify someone being injured atleast in that circumstance the company will take full responsibility for the injury and any sick time/ possible insurance claim related to the injury as they had given them the opportunity to be released from their seats.
The same risk applies to performing a safety demonstration whilst the aircraft is in taxi. I have fallen over once, I wasnt injured (a part from my dignity!) but I did write a report and the company backed me completely as I had permission from the command to be out of my seat, however an incident once occured where a passenger was up during taxi in and fell over hurting his arm. The arrival PA had already been made advising pax to remain seated until the seatbelt sign was switched off and the passenger had no leg to stand on as far as making a claim against the airline as he had disobeyed Civil Aviation Law.
It must be very frustrating for passengers though, they havent been exposed to everything most of us have in training and being out online and all they see is us getting up and possibly having no regard for the rules they have to follow.
The same risk applies to performing a safety demonstration whilst the aircraft is in taxi. I have fallen over once, I wasnt injured (a part from my dignity!) but I did write a report and the company backed me completely as I had permission from the command to be out of my seat, however an incident once occured where a passenger was up during taxi in and fell over hurting his arm. The arrival PA had already been made advising pax to remain seated until the seatbelt sign was switched off and the passenger had no leg to stand on as far as making a claim against the airline as he had disobeyed Civil Aviation Law.
It must be very frustrating for passengers though, they havent been exposed to everything most of us have in training and being out online and all they see is us getting up and possibly having no regard for the rules they have to follow.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: USA
Age: 41
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typical month at vb?????
I was after some info about working conditions at VB. I have been flying overseas with an international carrier and have just secured a CC position at VB based in Brisbane. I was told that there are around 10-15 overnights a month, although I was wondering how many days off you average a month? do you bid on a line? bid on days off? is there a system to swap or any flexibility etc? do you recieve a roster or bid on flights to make your own?? The company I previously worked for was fairly flexible...we worked a lot, but made our own roster and days off...just trying to understand what VB might like to work for....any info would be fantastic and hugely appreciated! 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australia
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The Eba is available on the intranet with a few tools to help understand all. The packs will sent via mail today the 2nd March.
I have skimmed over the details of the 37 page document.... I believe its not a bad piece of work. Less grey and more black and white. Of course with these things you need be able to accept change, so try not to compare the previous to the proposed eba.
ps. Its easy to read..
and I will read it again probably 100 times more to confirm what I am reading.
I have skimmed over the details of the 37 page document.... I believe its not a bad piece of work. Less grey and more black and white. Of course with these things you need be able to accept change, so try not to compare the previous to the proposed eba.
ps. Its easy to read..
and I will read it again probably 100 times more to confirm what I am reading.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Australia
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New Eba
At first glance it is much better than rumours had it. I see 10 days off per 28 day roster and I personally like 6.7.2. Maternity Leave has increased and they are offering paternity leave as well. So far so good.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: all over the shop
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Notalwayssunny - Welcome to pprune, I see thats your first post 
Paternity leave was always there - it has been increased from 1 to 2 weeks in this document.
Right now, after reading the eba and the FAQ's, I have already decided which way I am voting - based on a very large number of reasons - but am going to wait until the EBA roadshows etc before making the final 100% decision
I am going to disagree wholeheartedly with that statement - its imperative that you do compare what we have now versus what the new eba proposes, otherwise you wont be able to make an educated vote!
Paternity leave was always there - it has been increased from 1 to 2 weeks in this document.Right now, after reading the eba and the FAQ's, I have already decided which way I am voting - based on a very large number of reasons - but am going to wait until the EBA roadshows etc before making the final 100% decision
so try not to compare the previous to the proposed eba.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Hi! I guess an increase it's better than a decrease in benefits. Based on what I read I think I am pretty clear which way I'm voting as well. As for comparing the EBA's, I think that what KittyBlue is trying to say is that this one is based on rather different systems and so it might be a good idea to consider and asses them independently. I look forward to the roadshows, I am sure they will answer a lot of our questions.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: 38,000 ft
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Just remember that at the roadshows they will be giving the VB line on things and not the reality of them.
Example 1 - you call in sick on day 5 of 6 and then they draft you on your day off. You think you are now working 7 in a row when in fact your 6 in a row was reset by your sick day.
Example 2 - you finish in BNE due to bad weather in OOL they drive you down to OOL in a mini van the next day then add that as a paxing sector making your day 11h45m.
These arent the best examples but if the company sees a way to exploit anything they will. So please read the document well and try and twist it every way you possibly can before you agree to it.
I know I will have it soon to look at myself but can anyone tell me if it has in writing the performance bonus that BG mentioned in his mid year report.
Example 1 - you call in sick on day 5 of 6 and then they draft you on your day off. You think you are now working 7 in a row when in fact your 6 in a row was reset by your sick day.
Example 2 - you finish in BNE due to bad weather in OOL they drive you down to OOL in a mini van the next day then add that as a paxing sector making your day 11h45m.
These arent the best examples but if the company sees a way to exploit anything they will. So please read the document well and try and twist it every way you possibly can before you agree to it.
I know I will have it soon to look at myself but can anyone tell me if it has in writing the performance bonus that BG mentioned in his mid year report.
Join Date: May 2004
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Wirgin to answer your question I am not entirely sure.. there is reference to a productivity bonus, but its a flat 2%. The bonus that BG referred to was a MINIMUM 2%, possibly more. I think they are separate things - this would have been written in to the EBA some time ago... at least I think so anyway - its one of the things we can ask at the forums I guess!
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Wirginblue, you seem to see the company as a user to an extreme way.
Your example 1 is logical in the way that if your sick would you not start again day 1 anyway, as you have rested?? Like if you were on a reassignable. I'd advise you to ready the document before you comment because there are many new features re: rest periods etc that you have not read about in the document.
Notalways sunny understood my comment about comparing. Yes use the information we have learnt through the years to make a judgement thou there are new options included in this that we have not been exposed to.
Please read the document carefully before commenting, no different than gossip. Funny enough the FAQ sheet says not to listen to gossip and if youdont know the answer ask someone who knows the answers. There seems to be a lot of mistrust in some circles, yes some are very valid and I believe this eba may help us get back some control.
My thoughts, been here for many years and seen alot.
Your example 1 is logical in the way that if your sick would you not start again day 1 anyway, as you have rested?? Like if you were on a reassignable. I'd advise you to ready the document before you comment because there are many new features re: rest periods etc that you have not read about in the document.
Notalways sunny understood my comment about comparing. Yes use the information we have learnt through the years to make a judgement thou there are new options included in this that we have not been exposed to.
Please read the document carefully before commenting, no different than gossip. Funny enough the FAQ sheet says not to listen to gossip and if youdont know the answer ask someone who knows the answers. There seems to be a lot of mistrust in some circles, yes some are very valid and I believe this eba may help us get back some control.
My thoughts, been here for many years and seen alot.
Last edited by KittyBlue; 2nd Mar 2007 at 10:42.
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BG comment about bonus has been added in to the EBA.
4.1.5 Productivity Payment
4.1.5 Productivity Payment
a. In addition to the salary increases set out in this Agreement, you will be paid a productivity payment in the amount of 2.0% calculated on your base salary at the time it is paid. This will be paid to Cabin Crew and Cabin
Supervisors.
.
Supervisors.
.
Last edited by KittyBlue; 2nd Mar 2007 at 10:41.
Join Date: May 2004
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Kittyblue I think Wirgin Blew's point was moreso we have to look at the potential worst-case scenario, because it can/will happen from time to time - and if it does, and people have voted Yes for the agreement, then they have no right to complain if it happens to them.
Thats the way I interpreted it anyway!
I have a *lot* more to contribute to this discussion - significantly more - but am not entirely convinced that this is, right now, the best place for me to do so
A rose by any other name; book/cover................ etc etc
Thats the way I interpreted it anyway!
I have a *lot* more to contribute to this discussion - significantly more - but am not entirely convinced that this is, right now, the best place for me to do so
A rose by any other name; book/cover................ etc etc
Join Date: Jul 2001
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if your sick would you not start again day 1 anyway, as you have rested
I don't consider myself very rested if I have spent the day throwing up, or on the loo with gastro (from cleaning the toilets). Or perhaps I haven't gotten enough sleep because I have spent the night blowing my runny nose (thanks to our passengers), or couldn't get comfortable because my back is playing up (due to the overloaded carts we have to lug up and down the aisle).
Then I get drafted and have to work another 5 or 6 days in a row. Kitty blue if you have been here as long as you say, I am absoloutly shocked that you find this acceptable. (You sound a little more like management talking that a cabin crew member
)
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Maybe we need to define the word "rest" here. And exactly why the crew member needed to go sick in the first place.
I voted in a new EBA in a previous job and also some minor changes. On both occasions, the changes improved working conditions and remuneration. There seems to be a lot of mistrust within VB and it isn't hard to see why when the current EBA allows a minimum rest of 10 hours away from home base, 9.5 hour days without a 20 minute uninterrupted break (good luck keeping track of those supp forms being lodged and receipt of those penalty payments), 6 days on and 1 day off, and sick days only being worth 5.5 duty hours when the average working day is 7hrs (140hrs/20 working days). Compare this to a normal 8 hour day with a 1 hour lunch break and a FULL day credited when you call in sick and well..
The only advice I can offer is to read the EBA carefully before you vote and ask questions if you don't understand certain points - in fact, ask several people to get different perspectives about these points. A good vote is an educated vote and comparing both EBAs is a wise move as this is a voting chance to ensure that your lifestyle, conditions of employment, and remuneration are improving and not deteriorating. Otherwise, it is just a continuation of the race to the bottom - the race to see which airline can pay their cabin crew the least.
On a side note, my understanding of the productivity bonus was that it would be implemented independently from the new EBA, irrespective whether it was voted in or not. However, don't quote me on this one as it may very well be a deal sweetener but is $1,000 (2% on a BASE salary of $50k) enough to sweeten the deal for most?
