Virgin Blue EBA
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brisbane
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Exactly Brisvegasboy, my worry exactly. Words like endevour and maybe mean - never or if you are lucky.
Speaking with some Flight Crew they seem to be very interested in the DVD coming out! I am too on that note, wondering if everything will be explained not just the "good" bits - which I am yet to find. They seem to think that it is a bit of interesting marketing as they have an opionion that some crew won't read the document as they may assume that the DVD has it all in there. Time will tell, hopefully by Monday's or Tuesday's mail.
Speaking with some Flight Crew they seem to be very interested in the DVD coming out! I am too on that note, wondering if everything will be explained not just the "good" bits - which I am yet to find. They seem to think that it is a bit of interesting marketing as they have an opionion that some crew won't read the document as they may assume that the DVD has it all in there. Time will tell, hopefully by Monday's or Tuesday's mail.
Join Date: Feb 2000
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wholehartedly agree that kittyblue and notalwayssunny are possibly management (although their spelling and grammar leaves alot to be desired - then again, maybe that was intentional.....!)
Finally, it is unwise to accuse somebody else of poor grammar when your own post includes a serious grammatical error (spelling and grammar are plural, not singular)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
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I agree 'not smiling' words 'will endeavour' and 'where possible' remind me of the following:
You are entitled to 15 hours minimum rest at home base but this can be changed to 12 due to delays
and
The maximum UNMINS we carry is now 6, but of course this can be changed to 8 due to disruption.
These refer to current conditions, I am sure there are more, but I just cant think of them.
Either way, I think the words 'where possible and will endeavour' should be banned from any EBA.
You are entitled to 15 hours minimum rest at home base but this can be changed to 12 due to delays
and
The maximum UNMINS we carry is now 6, but of course this can be changed to 8 due to disruption.
These refer to current conditions, I am sure there are more, but I just cant think of them.
Either way, I think the words 'where possible and will endeavour' should be banned from any EBA.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
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Hi Sinala
I dont suppose you would have a copy you could PM me?
I'm dying to read it, so I can finally see what is actually in the document!
Could you explain if there are going to be available days with extra pay like we currently have?
Thanks
I dont suppose you would have a copy you could PM me?
I'm dying to read it, so I can finally see what is actually in the document!
Could you explain if there are going to be available days with extra pay like we currently have?
Thanks
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Skywards
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Well I have just been through the proposed EBA with my trusty highlighter. Here are some of my observations.
1.3 737 and embraer ops, with 3hr time zone as far nth as SIN
2.2.7 What is/are augmented CC?
3.13 We have the right to transfer you??
3.14.6 fixed term contract crew?
4.1 salary increase 3% + 2% productivity = 5% total
4.1.6 What are the targets for CS gain share? Are they achievable?
4.2.2 Table 9 Ability to obtain high O/N allowance - low, ability to obtain bugger all - almost certain (goodbye to 24hr+ O/N)
5.1.3 now 3hrs notice to call in sick
5.8 Parental Leave now cease flying at 28 weeks. paid Mat leave 6 weeks. mat leave increased to 78 weeks. paid Pat leave 2 weeks.
5.9 LOA provisions
6.2 28 day rosters. 125-135hrs/mth.
6.4.2e-i working over 140hrs!
6.4.4 non credit training??
6.5 Table 1 MEL-DRW-MEL red eyes, 4 sector MEL-OOL returns, or BNE-CNS... the list goes on.
6.5.3 what are unplanned duties?? "oh we forgot to roster that duty... have an extra long duty"
6.7 protection around early, late and night duties.
6.9.1 home base min rest 12hrs
6.10 10 DDO/mth, surrounded by 2 local nights
6.14i & 6.15f extension of standby hours
6.17h APT standby can by extended
6.21 new displacement clauses nb vii & viii??!!
6.25 Unplanned Layover clause
6.26 Tour extending clause
6.27 Split duty rest 3-10 hrs.rest under 5hrs may be on aircraft! 5hrs+ in suitable accom 'relative to circumstances'???
All I can say is that I will definitely be attending the roadshows to ask a few questions to get clarification on the above question marks.
I would recommend that everyone does this and listens to what they ALL have to say, just make sure you are getting the right answers and not the galley FM versions.
Happy reading
1.3 737 and embraer ops, with 3hr time zone as far nth as SIN
2.2.7 What is/are augmented CC?
3.13 We have the right to transfer you??
3.14.6 fixed term contract crew?
4.1 salary increase 3% + 2% productivity = 5% total
4.1.6 What are the targets for CS gain share? Are they achievable?
4.2.2 Table 9 Ability to obtain high O/N allowance - low, ability to obtain bugger all - almost certain (goodbye to 24hr+ O/N)
5.1.3 now 3hrs notice to call in sick
5.8 Parental Leave now cease flying at 28 weeks. paid Mat leave 6 weeks. mat leave increased to 78 weeks. paid Pat leave 2 weeks.
5.9 LOA provisions
6.2 28 day rosters. 125-135hrs/mth.
6.4.2e-i working over 140hrs!
6.4.4 non credit training??
6.5 Table 1 MEL-DRW-MEL red eyes, 4 sector MEL-OOL returns, or BNE-CNS... the list goes on.
6.5.3 what are unplanned duties?? "oh we forgot to roster that duty... have an extra long duty"
6.7 protection around early, late and night duties.
6.9.1 home base min rest 12hrs
6.10 10 DDO/mth, surrounded by 2 local nights
6.14i & 6.15f extension of standby hours
6.17h APT standby can by extended
6.21 new displacement clauses nb vii & viii??!!
6.25 Unplanned Layover clause
6.26 Tour extending clause
6.27 Split duty rest 3-10 hrs.rest under 5hrs may be on aircraft! 5hrs+ in suitable accom 'relative to circumstances'???
All I can say is that I will definitely be attending the roadshows to ask a few questions to get clarification on the above question marks.
I would recommend that everyone does this and listens to what they ALL have to say, just make sure you are getting the right answers and not the galley FM versions.
Happy reading
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
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Thanks for that Flying Frypan.
Gee. Are there any good points in the EBA?
The point about having the right to transfer us concerns me? Does this bother anyone else?
Anything about blank days/earning extra money on these days?
Gee. Are there any good points in the EBA?
The point about having the right to transfer us concerns me? Does this bother anyone else?
Anything about blank days/earning extra money on these days?
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Skywards
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There will be no Available Days as we currently know them. Your roster will be made up of flying duties, standby duties (either aiport/home/away from home) and Optional days (OPT).
There will be no extra payments for any type of standby duty (with the exception of layover allowances for an away from home standby).
The only way you can make extra $ is on OPT's or DDO's.
If you work on an OPT day you will be paid $150 for duties 6hr and under or $250 over 6hr duty.
If you elect to work a DDO you will be paid the same as OPT day.
If you are drafted on DDO you will be paid $250 6hrs and under or $350 over 6hrs duty.
There will be no extra payments for any type of standby duty (with the exception of layover allowances for an away from home standby).
The only way you can make extra $ is on OPT's or DDO's.
If you work on an OPT day you will be paid $150 for duties 6hr and under or $250 over 6hr duty.
If you elect to work a DDO you will be paid the same as OPT day.
If you are drafted on DDO you will be paid $250 6hrs and under or $350 over 6hrs duty.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
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Sorry for being daft, but can we elect NOT to work on OPT days and be guaranteed not to be called? Or is it like denominating, they can still call you?
It is so frustrating not having the document to read!
It is so frustrating not having the document to read!
Join Date: Oct 2004
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An OPT day is a day free from duty, you are not required to nominate or to be contactable. If contacted you do not have to accept the work, however if you have nominated the OPT day it is expected that you will be available and contactable.
Basically it is an extra day off, unless nominated.
Basically it is an extra day off, unless nominated.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Thanks for your response FF. Appreciate it.
I wonder how many OPT days we are likely to get per roster period? It wouldnt seem fair that some people would get say 5-10 per month, then other crew only get 1 or 2.
I wonder how many OPT days we are likely to get per roster period? It wouldnt seem fair that some people would get say 5-10 per month, then other crew only get 1 or 2.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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I would think that OPT days would only be rostered after your max duty hours ahve been rostered... so if you have you duty hours all bunched up.. then more OPT days... duty hours spread out then fewer OPT days.
Some ppl would want to work extra hours for the extra $, but on the other hand some would prefer to have the day off, especially if they have worked 130 hours already that month.
Some ppl would want to work extra hours for the extra $, but on the other hand some would prefer to have the day off, especially if they have worked 130 hours already that month.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I have been apart of preparing business management systems and HR for many years now. One big thing is that I have been apart of many EBA proposals with many different service providers. As the moderator said this forum is a anon forum and my personal opinions on approaching this EBA may be different to each and every one of you.
EBA can be found here:
http://intranet.virginblue.com.au/co...Crew/EBA_2007/
I have now sat with a few crew and reread alot of the proposed EBA and I see many things that could be adjusted and some that I am personally happy with. I will be heading to the roadshows, not fearing of being stepped down.
The flight crew story that has gone around has as always missing data that due to privacy can not be disclosed by the company or the person involved. The only reason anyone would be stood down and this comes from your KOWF info is that you do something illegal, have ben abusive or been placed on warnings and that the final or first incident involved causes the person to be stood down.
( i dont know that story or need to know. I know if Vb didn't follow legal process correctly then they would have been taken to court for many factor of discrimination. Are you aware in the last 4 months I have come across 5 cc stood down for unexceptable behaviour issues)
(excuse me for any spellng and gramatical mistakes)
EBA can be found here:
http://intranet.virginblue.com.au/co...Crew/EBA_2007/
I have now sat with a few crew and reread alot of the proposed EBA and I see many things that could be adjusted and some that I am personally happy with. I will be heading to the roadshows, not fearing of being stepped down.
The flight crew story that has gone around has as always missing data that due to privacy can not be disclosed by the company or the person involved. The only reason anyone would be stood down and this comes from your KOWF info is that you do something illegal, have ben abusive or been placed on warnings and that the final or first incident involved causes the person to be stood down.
( i dont know that story or need to know. I know if Vb didn't follow legal process correctly then they would have been taken to court for many factor of discrimination. Are you aware in the last 4 months I have come across 5 cc stood down for unexceptable behaviour issues)
(excuse me for any spellng and gramatical mistakes)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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OK - point taken. My only excuse for my error is lack of sleep after a red-eye.....goodness knows how I'll cope after working a trip under the new EBA.....!
Going to jump on that link and have a look now - thanks KB.
I am quite concerned about some of the points that have been raised already........
Going to jump on that link and have a look now - thanks KB.
I am quite concerned about some of the points that have been raised already........
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Standby for the mailman. The link is only accessible from work and for obvious reasons this site is banned from work.
Already we have been let down by the FAAA as they told us they would be posting the EBA on there website on the 2nd. Also I would like to bag them some more by saying that they havent updated the VB part of the site since the 08NOV06. Correction they have revamped the site and perhaps if I use my membership number I could log in. Unfortunately it isnt handy.
OPT days are only $25 per hour hardly worth nominating for imho. If it were for the overtime amount the crew would be lining up I feel.
I have emailed my 20+ concerns to the FAAA and am eagerly awaiting their reply.
I would also like PPruners to pass the word around about using this forum as a way of venting over the next month. It may not change the EBA but it will hopefully provide an area where lots of cabin crew can come and vent. So if you post on any other boards or have lots of msn VB friends please let them know about this site.
P.S. Apologies in advance Tightslot you are going to be a little busy reading this thread over the next month. If you have any feedback regarding CAP 371 then please let us know. I would be more than happy to send you the link for the EBA once its up and running for your reading pleasure. :-)
Already we have been let down by the FAAA as they told us they would be posting the EBA on there website on the 2nd. Also I would like to bag them some more by saying that they havent updated the VB part of the site since the 08NOV06. Correction they have revamped the site and perhaps if I use my membership number I could log in. Unfortunately it isnt handy.
OPT days are only $25 per hour hardly worth nominating for imho. If it were for the overtime amount the crew would be lining up I feel.
I have emailed my 20+ concerns to the FAAA and am eagerly awaiting their reply.
I would also like PPruners to pass the word around about using this forum as a way of venting over the next month. It may not change the EBA but it will hopefully provide an area where lots of cabin crew can come and vent. So if you post on any other boards or have lots of msn VB friends please let them know about this site.
P.S. Apologies in advance Tightslot you are going to be a little busy reading this thread over the next month. If you have any feedback regarding CAP 371 then please let us know. I would be more than happy to send you the link for the EBA once its up and running for your reading pleasure. :-)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: A Lovely Part Of The World
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disgraceful
sounds absolutely disgraceful to me!!! Who would vote for something like this! Fatigue is going to result in someone to forget to disarm their door, blow a slide - or just simply be burnt out and have to use up more sick leave!!
May I ask what incentive there is for crew in this entire proposal??????????????????????? In my opinion think 10 days off a month is more than enough who wants more than that! Surprising as it may be to some - some of us love going to work and love the overnights and especially the available days. Without these, where is the motivation for crew to come to work and do the job properly!
May I ask what incentive there is for crew in this entire proposal??????????????????????? In my opinion think 10 days off a month is more than enough who wants more than that! Surprising as it may be to some - some of us love going to work and love the overnights and especially the available days. Without these, where is the motivation for crew to come to work and do the job properly!