QANTAS - Australia II

[radiation junkie]

Clause 11 !

Don't know if this is old news, but I just heard a LH CSM is facing a Clause 11 for letting crew use an empty C zone as rest area (with Captain's OK) on a very light QF 8. Apparently he was dobbed in by a SH purser (CSM) returning on holidays sitting on the UD with his partner. Very sad if this is true ! What has this SH (so called) CSM achieved ?

[lowerlobe]

Pegasus and Eden and the rest of the Faaa and your supporter twiggs,

I was commenting on an idea expressed by someone else on pprune which I thought made sense in terms of being ahead of the game instead of playing catch-up as usual.

Now you tell us that you have been meeting with Macquarie bank!!!!

Why would you have been talking to the Mac Bank before the news of the takeover being announced and who was behind it. This again reeks of BS.

If you think the company is laughing at cabin crew think again as it is our representatives that are cracking them up.

Your other problem with you guys is that you accuse anyone who criticizes you of not being a financial member.Well your wrong again as usual and the meeting I was at said nothing about any discussions with the Macquarie bank and as roaming wolf said I as well cannot recall anything being said about pre reform EBA’s and post reform EBA’s , yet you claim you talked about them as well.

This is right up there with the “fatigue study” you had commissioned that none of us knew about but all of a sudden bring up and told us that we could have asked for at the union office and that we should have known about.

Are we again supposed to be psychic and know what you guys are up to?

The next BS you’ll tell us is that you were privy to the takeover news months ago and have been in secret discussions with the group throughout all of this.

You are in fantasy land and the company is holding all the cards in the deck and you are bluffing as usual.To think you are representing us is about as scary as you can get.

[DEFCON4]

Round and Round

The FAAA and its council are doing the best they can under the circumstances.
We elected these people and personally I dont need to know the finer details of what they are doing..."need to know nice to know."
I have flown with most of them and given them a grilling on a range of subjects and the answers have been more than credible.
I dont give my trust to anyone easily but these guys seem to have an excellent grasp of what is going and what their viable options are.
They need our support not mindless pointless criticism from pseudo intellectual armchair champions.

[roamingwolf]

Whoa there ,I reckon it’s time to take one step back and take a deep breath.We all know that we have different ideas and one of mine was to approach the group that look as though they are going to take over QF.

It shouldn’t matter to the faaa if someone comes up with an idea but the danger is not talking about them.Let’s not let egos get in the way of what we should be doing.

To say that the faaa or anyone is above listening to ideas is crazy and to call someone who has them as an armchair champion is just as nuts.

[Guardian1]

lowerlobe and his mindless rantings

lowerlobe..you truly have an over-inflated idea of your capacities.

I have said it earlier and it just does not sink in with you.... if you have questions..ring the FAAA.

This anonymous forum is not the place that any senior official of the FAAA would discuss confidential matters with you or for that matter anyone else.

The issue of post and pre reform EBA's was discussed extensively at the FAAA meetings....... as i said...because crew were saying at the meetings that the Pilots association (AIPA) were indicating that pre - reform EBA's could live on indefinitely.

The issue was not of significance because the FAAA officials and its staff knew this was not the case.

The fact that some on here raise the issue is not here or there... some on here were incorrect too...including lowerlobe and roamingwolf.

Also as Pegasus747 indicated earlier at many of the FAAA meetings the meeting with Maquarie bank was also relayed to the members.

Finally, lowerlobe.... once and for all.... get this through your head... the FAAA has considered every idea you may have thought of...also the Macquarie Bank meeting occurred 3 months ago.

These issues are confidential and the only reason Pegasus747 may have mentioned it is because the FAAA leadership, particularly MM broached the subject publicly at the meetings.

lowerlobe leave the experts in the FAAA to conduct industrial policy..you just stick to your cart exchanges mate. You truly are an annoying individual.

DEFCON4's words"pseudo intellectual armchair champions".... sum up accurately the likes of lowerlobe.

[speedbirdhouse]

Radiation Junkie,

it sounds hard to believe that a fellow flight attendant could be so mindlessly spitefull but then again I have seen the actions of twisted and officious pursers first hand, so you never know........

It'll be interesting to see the outcome of the gestapo's clause 11 especially if the CSM involved was "directed" by the Captain.

I was told by ex CCM DH [before he saw the light] that there wasn't much cabin crew "management" could do about a situation like this given that the Captain is ultimately in charge and doesn't answer to the thugs we do.

Keep us informed if you hear any more.

--------------------

Those people who still read QF propaganda might remember a certain CSM with the initials GP being awarded on the front page of Qantas news the "order of darth" in person by our "Dear Leader" and Dame for his charitable work in Zimbabwe.

This hardworking, caring "role model" CSM has recently faced the ignominy of not meeting his KPI's and being awarded a "2" for not being up to scratch with the meaningless, dehumanizing, computer generated paperwork that now dominates the longhaul CSM's working day.

A collegue who took the time to talk to AW has been told that management now think [based on feedback from other CSMs] that the basis used to measure our onboard performance might be a little flawed..............

Bring back "Winny", walls that you can't see through and sack the lot of fishbowl inhabiting fools on QCC2.

PLEASE...........and don't forget to fill in a dot.

[Butterfield8]

Domestic Mentality

If the details of the event are true its not surprising.
The general attitude of the domestics is that of power mad,self righteous petty public servants.

[ozskipper]

Unfortunately, the story is true. It was a LH MEL CSM who got dobbed in.

The particular CSM who was dobbed in is a really lovely & competent manager and a all round nice person.

Shame really.

[lowerlobe]

If this dob is a recent one then it is no wonder that our 2 unions do not join together.

This is then the 3rd time a s/h crew has dobbed in a l/h crew that I am aware of .

What do these people think they will achieve with this sort of activity .It's just like being back at school again .You would think that some people grow up but obviously this is not the case with these people.

[sydney s/h]

Thanks for generalising Butterfield8, lowerlobe and anyone else who wants to get on the SH ****-slinging boat.

[Butterfield8]

Generalization....Not

Time after time after time some domestic person dobs a longhaul person for doing something that is really none of their business.
To their credit(?)they also dob on each other.
What is it with you people?
Do you think this behaviour endears you to anyone?
Do you think this behaviour offers you a fastrack to being the next CEO?
It is the behaviour of nasty vindictive small minded pratts with an overblown sense of self importance.
You wonder why LHCC are critical of you.?
Spread the word..."mind your own bloody business"

[sydney s/h]

"What is it with you people?"

Wow...Butterfield8 , do you always paint everyone with the same brush??

I was on a LH flight earlier this year in J/C and the crew were very lazy and disinterested.
Does that mean that ALL LH crew are lazy and disinterested?? NO.

Grow up.

[lowerlobe]

Sydney s/h I think you are missing our point .We are not generalizing as this has been happening since we bought Australian airlines.

We all know there are people who are lazy and they are in every group whether that is S/H ,L/H , management, police etc…but why would you dob as it achieves nothing. If it really was the case as a CSM you should have brought it to the attention of the operating L/H CSM.

Our point is that crew in S/H are dobbing in L/H for various things that are to be honest infantile .If L/H were to dob S/H for some petty reason as well I would be critical of them. With the S/H FAAA undercutting us and the dobbing it would appear that some S/H crew are out to do anything to hurt L/H crew

This not another attack on S/H per se but a need for explanation.

Why do some crew in S/H find it necessary to dob L/H crew?...Please tell us!

[sydney s/h]

lowerlobe,

I have no idea why some people feel the need to dob on others.

I certainly cant speak for the 1000's of fellow workers.

As far as me speaking to the LH CSM when the crew were crap on my flight, i can only imagine how that would have gone down coming from a "domestic purser".

I'm over this conversation. Time to move on......

[flitegirl]

Just saw on the news, Macquarie Bank take over bid could be "made official" by tomorrow

[B A Lert]

Why do some crew in S/H find it necessary to dob L/H crew?.

Because if they see something clearly not in accordance with company policy, and it bothers them, they sometimes need to speak to someone. It's something to do with standards and company policy. Clearly, what is alleged to have happened was contrary to good commercial practice that neither the CSM nor captain appeared to understand. What would a commercial first or bus class punter think when they saw operating Cabin Crew using seats for rest - even though the seats may have been commercially unavailed? After all, there is perfectly good horizontal crew rest available for crew use. Why shouldn't it have been used? Also, neither command nor commercial discretion allows the willy-nilly use of premium cabin seats. All too often one sees and hears of those with connections of crew being upgraded once the aircraft doors have been closed. I have seen it myself. (No, I won't name names or identify time and place but it does happen.) Lastly, would the CSM in question have listened to the S/H CSM as he was a passenger? I suspect that the answer would be negative.

[DEFCON4]

Hypocrite

Mr. Lert appears to have a God Given right to comment with authority on any and all matters.
A self appointed keeper of the moral high ground.
Mr. Lert have you never utilized an employers underutilized facilities?
Have you never taken a pen,a sheet of paper?
Seats are fixed capital... you cannot take them.
I was socialized to mind my own business regarding matters outside my immediate concern.
Unless I am threatened or some social injustice has been perpetrated against me or a member of my family or a friend I remain quiet.
In todays society there are far too many people who concern themselves with other peoples affairs when they have no legal or moral right to do so.
It is small minded and petty.
If an individual is concerned about some matter it is courtesy to make others aware of their intentions so that the situation may be remedied.
To make a complaint without providing this opportunity is both immoral and unjust.
What sought of satisfaction did this domestic person derive from dobbing in a colleague?
What a sad sorry little individual he/she must be

[lowerlobe]

Well,it’s comedy central again and this time it’s not from the stables in Ewan St Mascot where our geldings are housed.

BALert, You have always struck me as the sort that is a by the book type of guy .

Have you ever thought of the possibility of using the seat if a crew member is sick and unable to use the horizontal crew rest or on an aircraft that does not have horizontal crew rest.

I have used one of these seats in J/C years ago when I was required to stay with a pax that was handcuffed and put in the aft section of J/C so as not to upset or be able to physically challenge other pax..

I have seen on two occasions a crew member put into either a J/C or P/C seat when they had received news of a death in the family and were obviously distressed.

These situations are obviously unknown to you or would not be considered by you because of your dislike of crew.I imagine you are the sort that would make them work home regardless of the situation.


It is different if you are an office dweller but in our business you can't send someone home in a taxi from Singapore ,London or Los angeles.If there is a spare seat in J/C or P/C you can utilize those seats if you have compassion but there's the difference.You would dob them in because it is not procedure and every thing is black and white

[radiation junkie]

good post, lowerlobe... arrogant irrelevant post, B A lert

Interesting to see the points of view in this "incident". The problem is this sort of behaviour, dobbing on fellow work colleagues, is indicative of a new breed of employee Qantas, which has been nurtured by the current management as a tool of advancement. Advancement to what; to a level where ultimately you are redundant and "goodbye"....
We all know the procedures regarding use of JC as crew rest. But on a 14 hour daylight sector with a light pax load, it is a great relief to be able to sit down and quietly watch a movie or rest.
B A lert has told us: After all, there is perfectly good horizontal crew rest available for crew use. Why shouldn't it have been used?
B A lert, you have probably never even seen or used this crew rest, so have no idea what it's like during a long day sector when crew are wide awake and need a rest, but not sleep.
Qantas has even sent directives to Qantas airport managers in LA to ensure C zone seats have pax allocated to them even when loads are light. Their answer to this was to ensure C zone is always kept free of pax when possible. Why, because they care about crew and wellfare of colleagues. Very simple philosophy.

[mrpaxing]

Company policy

B A Lert it IS Company policy ( and as in many cases they are guidelines) that the captain has the discretion to make decisions like the one on Qf 8. Lets not forget he also has the legal right under the CARS (civil aviation safety regulations) to make any decision onboard. get of the moral high ground. i have and still travel a lot on staff travel domesticially. if i would report any breach of company policy onboard domestic flights , i would be writing a lot of reports. unfortunatly some of our collegues, some s/h and some l/h need a new lease of life. i wish someone would publish the name/s via privat mail