QANTAS Discussions
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QCC2
Yes MM and AS were part of the previous executive,,,,,,,,, you are right about that QCC2, but they did not have the numbers to prevent the appalling
mismanagement of the FAAA by the officials that were voted out in 2003 and 2004.
History will always show that the two current leaders of the FAAA stood up by themselves and opposed EBA6 and they were vindicated. They then mounted an election campaign to vote out the previous incompetents.
History will also show that everything that they have promised has been done or is in the process of being done.
Just a short list of achievements, to remind you QCC2:-
- reversal of every failure of EBA6
- A CAP ON OVERSEAS BASES WHEN THERE WAS NONE
- GUARANTEED ACCESS TO a330 FLYING WHEN THERE WAS NONE
- TOTAL ACCESS TO A380 FLYING FOR LONG HAUL WHERE THERE WAS NO ACCESS
- ACCESS TO LONDON WHEN THERE WAS GOING TO BE NO ACCESS
- A PAID OFF PREMISES WHERE PREVIOUSLY WE PAID HUGE RENT
- STRONGEST FINANCIAL POSITION EVER OF THE L/H FAAA
- RE-ORGANISATION OF THE ELECTED STRUCTURE.... GOING FROM 32 OFFICIALS TO 12
- REVERSING THE APPALLING MISMANAGEMENT OF THE FAAA office
- REPAIRING THE BROKEN DOWN RELATIONSHIP WITH THE S/H FAAA
I could continue, but perhaps even you QCC2 can get the hint.
Hawk eye, again your comments are appreciated.The shouting down of members will never occur whilst the current officials represent the members.
The current senior officials promised to act with integrity,with competence and to treat the membership as adults and to lead on issues. This will continue to be the trademark of the current L/H FAAA senior leadership.
mismanagement of the FAAA by the officials that were voted out in 2003 and 2004.
History will always show that the two current leaders of the FAAA stood up by themselves and opposed EBA6 and they were vindicated. They then mounted an election campaign to vote out the previous incompetents.
History will also show that everything that they have promised has been done or is in the process of being done.
Just a short list of achievements, to remind you QCC2:-
- reversal of every failure of EBA6
- A CAP ON OVERSEAS BASES WHEN THERE WAS NONE
- GUARANTEED ACCESS TO a330 FLYING WHEN THERE WAS NONE
- TOTAL ACCESS TO A380 FLYING FOR LONG HAUL WHERE THERE WAS NO ACCESS
- ACCESS TO LONDON WHEN THERE WAS GOING TO BE NO ACCESS
- A PAID OFF PREMISES WHERE PREVIOUSLY WE PAID HUGE RENT
- STRONGEST FINANCIAL POSITION EVER OF THE L/H FAAA
- RE-ORGANISATION OF THE ELECTED STRUCTURE.... GOING FROM 32 OFFICIALS TO 12
- REVERSING THE APPALLING MISMANAGEMENT OF THE FAAA office
- REPAIRING THE BROKEN DOWN RELATIONSHIP WITH THE S/H FAAA
I could continue, but perhaps even you QCC2 can get the hint.
Hawk eye, again your comments are appreciated.The shouting down of members will never occur whilst the current officials represent the members.
The current senior officials promised to act with integrity,with competence and to treat the membership as adults and to lead on issues. This will continue to be the trademark of the current L/H FAAA senior leadership.
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For the record, I remember the unshaven and obviously very tired AS and MM campaigning at 6am for the "no vote" at the SIT bus stop.
They were VERY aware and warning all that would listen of the danger of a cap that would eventually expire at the end of the EBA.
Had they been listened to by more than 50% of the membership who bothered to vote QF might still be "The Spirit Of Australia" instead of now being .............something else................
They were VERY aware and warning all that would listen of the danger of a cap that would eventually expire at the end of the EBA.
Had they been listened to by more than 50% of the membership who bothered to vote QF might still be "The Spirit Of Australia" instead of now being .............something else................
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speedbirdhouse
it's great that people do remember those facts......
and the acknowledgement from people like you speedbirdhouse...probably explains why people like MM and AS and SR keep fighting for all of us.
and the acknowledgement from people like you speedbirdhouse...probably explains why people like MM and AS and SR keep fighting for all of us.
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my response
guardy as you said
History will always show that the two current leaders of the FAAA stood up by themselves and opposed EBA6 // yes i did vote for them
A CAP ON OVERSEAS BASES WHEN THERE WAS NONE// well the company did mention they wanted something like 20-25% of longhaul crew based overseas,
if my memory serves me right. they got it a different way. some 850+ overseas bases and i would guess around 500 positions we lost to domestics by way of loosing around half of regional flying. my guess was around 98% used to be longhaul. that makes around 25% of longhaul jobs we lost in syd/mel. another way of looking at it. the fact remains qf got what they wanted.the interesting part still of your claim re A330 is that we used to have 98% or thereabouts of international flying. that was part of our award. not aircraft types!!!! 
A PAID OFF PREMISES WHERE PREVIOUSLY WE PAID HUGE RENT // yes by way of increasing membership fees at 38%+ in recent times
, however i do applaude that move.
STRONGEST FINANCIAL POSITION EVER OF THE L/H FAAA// as above
RE-ORGANISATION OF THE ELECTED STRUCTURE.... GOING FROM 32 OFFICIALS TO 12// that i applaude
REVERSING THE APPALLING MISMANAGEMENT OF THE FAAA office// was it financial or otherwise, you have to be more specific as it is another very general statement.
REPAIRING THE BROKEN DOWN RELATIONSHIP WITH THE S/H FAAA// thats my favourite tonight, its not what my domestic collegues tell me. or have you guys mended brigdes with the president on leave in lhr, who so desperatly tries to get lhr based csm's back to syd as lh csm's.
my judgement to date is that the current lh faaa is reactive and not pro active.
History will always show that the two current leaders of the FAAA stood up by themselves and opposed EBA6 // yes i did vote for them
A CAP ON OVERSEAS BASES WHEN THERE WAS NONE// well the company did mention they wanted something like 20-25% of longhaul crew based overseas,
if my memory serves me right. they got it a different way. some 850+ overseas bases and i would guess around 500 positions we lost to domestics by way of loosing around half of regional flying. my guess was around 98% used to be longhaul. that makes around 25% of longhaul jobs we lost in syd/mel. another way of looking at it. the fact remains qf got what they wanted.the interesting part still of your claim re A330 is that we used to have 98% or thereabouts of international flying. that was part of our award. not aircraft types!!!! A PAID OFF PREMISES WHERE PREVIOUSLY WE PAID HUGE RENT // yes by way of increasing membership fees at 38%+ in recent times
, however i do applaude that move. STRONGEST FINANCIAL POSITION EVER OF THE L/H FAAA// as above
RE-ORGANISATION OF THE ELECTED STRUCTURE.... GOING FROM 32 OFFICIALS TO 12// that i applaude
REVERSING THE APPALLING MISMANAGEMENT OF THE FAAA office// was it financial or otherwise, you have to be more specific as it is another very general statement.
REPAIRING THE BROKEN DOWN RELATIONSHIP WITH THE S/H FAAA// thats my favourite tonight, its not what my domestic collegues tell me. or have you guys mended brigdes with the president on leave in lhr, who so desperatly tries to get lhr based csm's back to syd as lh csm's.
my judgement to date is that the current lh faaa is reactive and not pro active.
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qcc2
your attempt at balance in your last post redeems you a bit
Yes the 870 cap is a large 1 i agree. But the context was an expired cap because of the incompetence of EBA6 and the former officials, who had a perfect opportunity to undertake industrial action as pushed by MM and AS , but who chose capitulation.. (and remember in 2004 there was not a 1000 fixed termers employed by QF to be used as strike breakers) unlike the situation faced by MM in EBA7 as he reversed the failures of EBA6.
The flying situation too, was because EBA6 did not secure International Flying. Again, MM and AS at least secured the largest component of Regional Flying for the Long Haul Division.
I can assure you that the relationship is good between the 2 FAAA Divisions and an announcement will be shortly forthcoming about this. Also remember, the head of the FAAA in each Division is the Secretary not the President.
So Mijatov in L/H and Watkins in S/H.
Yes the 870 cap is a large 1 i agree. But the context was an expired cap because of the incompetence of EBA6 and the former officials, who had a perfect opportunity to undertake industrial action as pushed by MM and AS , but who chose capitulation.. (and remember in 2004 there was not a 1000 fixed termers employed by QF to be used as strike breakers) unlike the situation faced by MM in EBA7 as he reversed the failures of EBA6.
The flying situation too, was because EBA6 did not secure International Flying. Again, MM and AS at least secured the largest component of Regional Flying for the Long Haul Division.
I can assure you that the relationship is good between the 2 FAAA Divisions and an announcement will be shortly forthcoming about this. Also remember, the head of the FAAA in each Division is the Secretary not the President.
So Mijatov in L/H and Watkins in S/H.
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hawk eye
those flying 60+ must live on their own merit.surely with the 'self assessment' system in place.they will of course 'put themselves in',for inactivity and reading the 'telegraph' or indeed the 'guardian'.my tongue is firmly in my cheek.
i am constantly talking to younger crew and they are very critical of younger csm's for not being experienced enough, no management skills and autocratic.re the many 'clause 11 cases'.and i agree some senior csm's are less than proactive
as for giving others a GO,what do you wish for? senior f/a's who have the same if not more financial and or family responsibilities give up their job for a younger person "just because".i dont think so.
i said you own this site not because of the amount of posts but the amount of negativity you place on many other posters.no one is ALWAYS correct.
i am constantly talking to younger crew and they are very critical of younger csm's for not being experienced enough, no management skills and autocratic.re the many 'clause 11 cases'.and i agree some senior csm's are less than proactive
as for giving others a GO,what do you wish for? senior f/a's who have the same if not more financial and or family responsibilities give up their job for a younger person "just because".i dont think so.
i said you own this site not because of the amount of posts but the amount of negativity you place on many other posters.no one is ALWAYS correct.
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Being Ahead of the Game
A constant theme on this thread is the need for the L/H faaa to be pro- active rather than just sitting around the new office admiring the drying paint and waiting to get whacked by Management yet again.
So here's a conundrum - I was speaking to some LHR based crew this week and all the talk up there is whether to stay a 3rd year or return home - that is to say - from January next - there will be 200 f/a slots up for grabs in the UK.
Most crew I have spoken to feel the faaa' s reaction to the announcement of the UK base was incompetent at worst - indifferent at best.
So there are 200 full time Australian jobs about to go begging -is there anything the faaa intends to do to keep those jobs in Australian hands - is there any way they can collaborate to put Australians in those slots -or are we just going to give them to the Poms on a platter?
This will take a little humilty by the current executive -but
200 f/a jobs are worth fighting for - any sugestions? Speak to the short haul President up there?
Apparently she just assisted the Pom Union Amicus get a 5% per annum pay rise for LHR crew -that's 2% more than I can ever remember the faaa getting for us-
does Amicus have an office here in Australia???
So here's a conundrum - I was speaking to some LHR based crew this week and all the talk up there is whether to stay a 3rd year or return home - that is to say - from January next - there will be 200 f/a slots up for grabs in the UK.
Most crew I have spoken to feel the faaa' s reaction to the announcement of the UK base was incompetent at worst - indifferent at best.
So there are 200 full time Australian jobs about to go begging -is there anything the faaa intends to do to keep those jobs in Australian hands - is there any way they can collaborate to put Australians in those slots -or are we just going to give them to the Poms on a platter?
This will take a little humilty by the current executive -but
200 f/a jobs are worth fighting for - any sugestions? Speak to the short haul President up there?
Apparently she just assisted the Pom Union Amicus get a 5% per annum pay rise for LHR crew -that's 2% more than I can ever remember the faaa getting for us-
does Amicus have an office here in Australia???
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I cant believe the short sighted attitude of you junior crews . You people just dont get the fact that we all used to be " junior" once, ive been flying 13 years and i did my time, when i started i was the second most junior in the entire airline and spent the first two years just doing Brisbane return from Sydney on the A300 then almost another year of doing 4 legs to Melbourne and Brisbane with reserve line, after transferring to L/H i got lumbered with Harare and Joberg via Perth trips or 13 day Patterns that included Bombay shuttle out of singapore then down to Melbourne,Auckland and up to LA all on one pattern !! Im sure when you line up at staff travel check in you want to get a seat ahead of somebody who hasnt been there as long as you guys ! so in your eyes why dont we abolish staff travel seniority as well ! you keep harping on about 60 year olds BIG NEWS FLASH bills dont stop at 60 ! and you all preach about loving the job so much, well i bet you all want to stay flying as long as you can walk right !! and SanFran well , guess what that city was there long before you where born and will be long after your dead, fact is YOU will get there in you turn ! my friend has a good point when she said evan Rupert Murdoch started in the tea room.
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Short-Sightedness
Time goes very fast in the airline biz.
There are some big aircraft coming, they will need crew to fly them.
This management won't be around long.
This government won't be around for long.
We will be around longer.
The present l/h preferential bidding system is far from perfect, but it delivers at least some choice to MOST longhaul crew, ie MOST longhaul crew want to keep seniority bidding).
Qantas could easily spend some money to improve it, but they are happy to have an outdated system. (Only a prehistoric computer program takes 1 week to churn out rosters)
When I started I knew bidding was by seniority but was happy to just fly.
When JFK slips started, I could not get one to save my life, then some 24 hr ones appeared and they were so junior, anyone could get them.
Any layover is popular when it first starts, relax and wait a while, wait for the YVR shuttles out of SFO, and I guarantee SFO will be far easier to get.
Patience is a virtue.
There are some big aircraft coming, they will need crew to fly them.
This management won't be around long.
This government won't be around for long.
We will be around longer.
The present l/h preferential bidding system is far from perfect, but it delivers at least some choice to MOST longhaul crew, ie MOST longhaul crew want to keep seniority bidding).
Qantas could easily spend some money to improve it, but they are happy to have an outdated system. (Only a prehistoric computer program takes 1 week to churn out rosters)
When I started I knew bidding was by seniority but was happy to just fly.
When JFK slips started, I could not get one to save my life, then some 24 hr ones appeared and they were so junior, anyone could get them.
Any layover is popular when it first starts, relax and wait a while, wait for the YVR shuttles out of SFO, and I guarantee SFO will be far easier to get.
Patience is a virtue.
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twiggs
shorthaul just called again for more csm's. no longhaul promotion (except sc**s in lhr) has happen in the last 5 years . when the big bird turns up they want to retire the old 743's
. some more mam language casuals are online and that means less regional flying again . if the lhr based crews want to come back that means more lsl .unfortunalty GD intends to stay a while longer ,so is little jonny (he does want to lead the libs to another election). the current biddding system is far from perfect (after more then 34+ changes to it), but with additional features, such as instant tripswap system online. it might give f/a's and qf more flexibility (on would dare say reduce sickleave therefore increase productivity). i know the word patience just too well. have been (and many collegues agree) going slowly backwards with our bidding system/outcome for some time. i am for change, sensible of course.
. when the big bird turns up they want to retire the old 743's . some more mam language casuals are online and that means less regional flying again . if the lhr based crews want to come back that means more lsl .unfortunalty GD intends to stay a while longer ,so is little jonny (he does want to lead the libs to another election). the current biddding system is far from perfect (after more then 34+ changes to it), but with additional features, such as instant tripswap system online. it might give f/a's and qf more flexibility (on would dare say reduce sickleave therefore increase productivity). i know the word patience just too well. have been (and many collegues agree) going slowly backwards with our bidding system/outcome for some time. i am for change, sensible of course.
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Originally Posted by lurker@R5
Guardian - for starters - leadership is about turning up and being there for the troops -not infringing MBT and clearing pay protection by working out of category.
2 precedents the Company would just love to establish.
2 precedents the Company would just love to establish.
MBT is there so the COMPANY can not force us to work too close to the previous trip, to ensure we have some home time.
We are entitled to infringe that if we desire, this is OUR choice, and why not if we can use it to achieve the same result; more quality time at home.
How on earth is the company going to use our right to infringe MBT as a precedent for them to forcibly infringe MBT?
If this story is true and an FAAA rep did work as previously rumoured, then how about considering that he or she may have done so in order to remove themselves from a situation where they may be forced to work a duty that will potentially conflict with an important personal engagement.
Have you thought that they may have been already down to mimimum guarantee hours and therefore are not permitted to drop the pay protection.
Have you considered that the amount of time they devote to the FAAA, might minimize the amount of personal time at home they have anyway?
MBT has nothing to do with rest requirements before we are allowed to work again.
The company is allowed to turn someone around after a LHR trip on arrival in SYD to AKL or MEL for example, and then somewhere else the next day, providing duty hours mimimum rest are within required limits.
This nonsense about precedents is unbelievable.
As for working on the nation day of protest, big deal!
It's not like this was a stop work meeting or an FAAA only event.
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precedent
the precedent has been set a long time ago by a minority (which consistently do 230+hours ). they get of a trip and then go up to ops and hassle for another one . have seen those tur**eys on some of my trips. unproductive, fatigued, constantly whinging but happy to take the trip of someone on standby. their reasons are always personal (they couldn't give a t**s about anyone else. money ususaly the reason-pure greed).
twiggs you contradict yourself in your previous post
"MBT is there so the COMPANY can not force us to work too close to the previous trip, to ensure we have some home time".
"MBT has nothing to do with rest requirements before we are allowed to work again".
MPT has everthing to do with a proper rest at home!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(which consistently do 230+hours ). they get of a trip and then go up to ops and hassle for another one . have seen those tur**eys on some of my trips. unproductive, fatigued, constantly whinging but happy to take the trip of someone on standby. their reasons are always personal (they couldn't give a t**s about anyone else. money ususaly the reason-pure greed). twiggs you contradict yourself in your previous post
"MBT is there so the COMPANY can not force us to work too close to the previous trip, to ensure we have some home time".
"MBT has nothing to do with rest requirements before we are allowed to work again".
MPT has everthing to do with a proper rest at home!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by qcc2
twiggs you contradict yourself in your previous post
"MBT is there so the COMPANY can not force us to work too close to the previous trip, to ensure we have some home time".
"MBT has nothing to do with rest requirements before we are allowed to work again".
MPT has everthing to do with a proper rest at home!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"MBT is there so the COMPANY can not force us to work too close to the previous trip, to ensure we have some home time".
"MBT has nothing to do with rest requirements before we are allowed to work again".
MPT has everthing to do with a proper rest at home!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The first statement is about what the company can force you to do after you have signed off in Sydney.
The second refers to when we want to work after a trip, our choice.
I followed that with the example that potentially we could be required to operate the next day after a LHR trip had finished and thus within the planned MBT.
There is another interesting fact that if you are doing a 9 day LHR trip your MBT is 5, but if the trip unplanned became a 10 day trip, the MBT is reduced to 3.
Sorry that I did not make myself clear.
By the way QCC2, what is this MPT you refer to (minimum play time maybe)? or is that a typo and it is supposed to be MBT?
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YELLOW, I wont dignify your shot at me about being negative with a response.
Miami, what is short sighted is there is no movement in the ranks. Hasn't been for two years. ISNT gonna be! Not with part time, the London base, kiwis and Thais doing 230 plus hours each peropd while we have flight attendants lucky to snavell 50 hours on reserve line. Yes that is a cost to the company. They have to pay up to 150 hours plus the difference to the divisor from every other standby you do after the first one in a 12 mth period. I don't think the company realises this little expense (maybe a case of the left hand doesn't know what the right hand etc), or maybe its still cheaper to operate that way.
So for all you shocked individuals that can't understand what the problem is by the fact that you have done your time and their time will come etc. It wont come. It's ground to a halt. Oh I forgot to mention another factor. Those who are 60 plus waiting on for a package!
By the way destination for most junior crew is not the issue. it's having no say in your life. Would someone please explain why they should have 10-15 xmas's at home with their family in a row and others dont get any for the same period of time. For those who have 25 years up you have never had to do your time. 25 years ago you didn't have a choice at all. A choice came in in 1988.hence if you have 15 years up or more you would at that stage have 8 years seniority. Enough to get xmas home within that year or the next few years. you did not miss xmas for 10 years unless you knowingly took a promotion. Even then it should not have been the case that your reward for getting a promotion is to be punished with no xmas. Please dont start the pathetic arguement being that is how the system was so cop it sweet. If we live by that weak arguement then we shouldn't change anything. Never attempt to improve anything!
For those who are in their late 50s and flying 20 years plus, might I suggest you consider your health. We make a huge issue over the foreign base cap yet everyone is silent about when it is healthy to retire. This is one of the toghest jobs onyour body in the current working environment today.Continual depressurisation of all your body organs, jet lag, reduced slips, reducing mbt by 1 day
, confined work environment with constant exposure to radiation and passenger ills, reduced quality of oxygen, I could go on and on.
Perhaps the FAAA could lead the charge in this flying region of our part of the world and look at what is a healthy amount of time to fly. It's no good flying 30 years only to enjoy retirement for 5-10 to enjoy what good memories you had of it, is there?
Miami, what is short sighted is there is no movement in the ranks. Hasn't been for two years. ISNT gonna be! Not with part time, the London base, kiwis and Thais doing 230 plus hours each peropd while we have flight attendants lucky to snavell 50 hours on reserve line. Yes that is a cost to the company. They have to pay up to 150 hours plus the difference to the divisor from every other standby you do after the first one in a 12 mth period. I don't think the company realises this little expense (maybe a case of the left hand doesn't know what the right hand etc), or maybe its still cheaper to operate that way.
So for all you shocked individuals that can't understand what the problem is by the fact that you have done your time and their time will come etc. It wont come. It's ground to a halt. Oh I forgot to mention another factor. Those who are 60 plus waiting on for a package!
By the way destination for most junior crew is not the issue. it's having no say in your life. Would someone please explain why they should have 10-15 xmas's at home with their family in a row and others dont get any for the same period of time. For those who have 25 years up you have never had to do your time. 25 years ago you didn't have a choice at all. A choice came in in 1988.hence if you have 15 years up or more you would at that stage have 8 years seniority. Enough to get xmas home within that year or the next few years. you did not miss xmas for 10 years unless you knowingly took a promotion. Even then it should not have been the case that your reward for getting a promotion is to be punished with no xmas. Please dont start the pathetic arguement being that is how the system was so cop it sweet. If we live by that weak arguement then we shouldn't change anything. Never attempt to improve anything!
For those who are in their late 50s and flying 20 years plus, might I suggest you consider your health. We make a huge issue over the foreign base cap yet everyone is silent about when it is healthy to retire. This is one of the toghest jobs onyour body in the current working environment today.Continual depressurisation of all your body organs, jet lag, reduced slips, reducing mbt by 1 day
, confined work environment with constant exposure to radiation and passenger ills, reduced quality of oxygen, I could go on and on.Perhaps the FAAA could lead the charge in this flying region of our part of the world and look at what is a healthy amount of time to fly. It's no good flying 30 years only to enjoy retirement for 5-10 to enjoy what good memories you had of it, is there?
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Hawkeye...Dear Boy
In the not too distant future someone much younger than you will be saying the same things TO YOU.
You don`t stay thirty forever.
When you were first employed if someone told you how it was all going to unfold..you couldn`t have cared less.
But now having the job is not as important as having ALL the other bits.
Funny how the passing of time changes your priorities and perception.
My 12 year old son already thinks someone over 20 is an old fart.
I guess that covers both YOU and me.
Oh BTW he doesn`t like the aviation industry..."its not a real job is it dad?"
You don`t stay thirty forever.
When you were first employed if someone told you how it was all going to unfold..you couldn`t have cared less.
But now having the job is not as important as having ALL the other bits.
Funny how the passing of time changes your priorities and perception.
My 12 year old son already thinks someone over 20 is an old fart.
I guess that covers both YOU and me.
Oh BTW he doesn`t like the aviation industry..."its not a real job is it dad?"
Last edited by travel thickness; 28th Mar 2006 at 10:28.
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the real issues
Meanwhile back at the L/H FAAA office....."Guys, Guys, can we just give this usurpation of the seniority thing a rest for a minute !!! Andrew Andrew , I reckon the newly purchased Pro Hart would look better hanging on THAT wall! What do you think , sweetie?!"
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hawk-eye has knocked the nail on the head for those of us in the bottom end of the longhaul seniority pile.
Seniority is not about who is above you, it's about who is below you. QF wont be hiring seniority-holding longhaul crew for years.
All the seniors bleat on about how they 'did their time', yet most of them didnt start with a preferential bid system, so never started at the bottom of the pile.
Up until a few years ago, there was continual recruitment, so junior crew slowly but surely moved up the pile whilst 'doing their time'.
If that was the case today, I would have no problem with the seniority bid system, but as we all know, it isnt. Those who are junior now, will be junior forever, there is no more ' doing your time' as there is not going to be anyone to become junior to us, to pick up all the crap trips, Xmas days, New years, birthdays etc
And before you say it, yes I realised when I signed up that there was a seniority bid system, but was never told that I would be at the bottom of it forever!
So now those who are junior, we would like to see some changes. Cap all destinations to two a bid period, and keep your seniority for hols and days off etc. Thats a compromise.
Else face a legal challenge, based on discrimination (same job function performed should equal same conditions and remuneration. Sorry Yen-Men), and lose it all.
If the FAAA were smart, it would poll the crew on whether the bid system should change. As most crew (below the top 500) can now see no more movement, and therefore no better life.
The bid system will go, it depends on what terms - compromise between the seniors and juniors, or just gone completely.
Seniority is not about who is above you, it's about who is below you. QF wont be hiring seniority-holding longhaul crew for years.
All the seniors bleat on about how they 'did their time', yet most of them didnt start with a preferential bid system, so never started at the bottom of the pile.
Up until a few years ago, there was continual recruitment, so junior crew slowly but surely moved up the pile whilst 'doing their time'.
If that was the case today, I would have no problem with the seniority bid system, but as we all know, it isnt. Those who are junior now, will be junior forever, there is no more ' doing your time' as there is not going to be anyone to become junior to us, to pick up all the crap trips, Xmas days, New years, birthdays etc
And before you say it, yes I realised when I signed up that there was a seniority bid system, but was never told that I would be at the bottom of it forever!
So now those who are junior, we would like to see some changes. Cap all destinations to two a bid period, and keep your seniority for hols and days off etc. Thats a compromise.
Else face a legal challenge, based on discrimination (same job function performed should equal same conditions and remuneration. Sorry Yen-Men), and lose it all.
If the FAAA were smart, it would poll the crew on whether the bid system should change. As most crew (below the top 500) can now see no more movement, and therefore no better life.
The bid system will go, it depends on what terms - compromise between the seniors and juniors, or just gone completely.