QANTAS Discussions

[OCCR]

Oh I forgot,
Some of the senoir people should start using their sickleave, YOU cant take it with you...................plus the visitors KPI woudl not be met and therefore NO BONUS its a win win situation

[qcc2]

bad math

lurker you are mistaken if you think that it is/was a cost saving to the company by not offering VR to lh crew.if anything they should have offered it when the lhr base was opened or realised that the A380 is late.
the benefits of offering VR to 500 lh crew
a) there would be less part time positon for lh/sh (another cost to qf)
b) less sickleave -the "oldies " know how to use sickleave to the max
c) most are reorganising whats left of their forced LSL .
d) ongoing wage costs for excess crew since the LHr base opening.
e) much better use of resources ( that would be a first in QF).

and your comments do not reflect reality.
"far better to wait for the IR law that allows him to call it "an operational restructuring" - move over to Jet* International with a 30% reduction in salary & conditions or else - on ya bike - "oh, yeh, and here's your SIN $8 watch for exceptional 30 yr service."

AIPA is currently taken QF to the federal court over the so called transfer of business from QF to J* INT.

[OCCR]

qcc2

the oldies don't use their sick leave to the max as they get what they want so why in the hell would they use it.
Ask any of them they have well over 200 days each!

Once again the company don't have to offer VR, they can make life so uncomfortable for the senior people that they will leave!

[qcc2]

disagree

recently when i talked to a number of senior guys they are on or nearly zero sickleave. and to suggest that the visitors make life uncomfortable fro them is laughable. they are too experienced and too smart for our visitors. they do know how to work the system

[lurker@R5]

GODs

I actually ate on my own at the Thai (phoid)Room the other night - same chicken & sweet corn soup, same table cloths & decor, the light seemed dimmer though or maybe it was just my fading aged sight....- bought a tear to the eye - if only I had a P/C amenity kit and could remember my way to Takara......
re "the package" - As Lawsey says -keep the dream alive!

[qfcabin]

It's not just remembering the way to the tokara lurker; it's remembering what to do when u get there..I do wonder about the constant lack of any thought shown to senior crew though. They didn't all get 30 years of service going to LA back to back etc..maybe some might spare a few minutes and check some of the rubbish that was thrown at them during the 70s and 80s..not pretty , trust me!

[lurker@R5]

Lest We Forget

I somehow can't imagine a group of MAM casuals laughing with "gay" abandon at the Thai Room about the tissue paper falling out of Nick's cossies - or a whole 747-200 crew sharing a meal and 50 beers at Newton Circus (they've bowled that too!) - but I guess these young turks will create their own mythology..... "Do you remember when we had that long 8 hour slip in Darwin...what a hoot!! We actually had time for an alcoholic beverage!"

[Wed Webbing Woop]

FISH BOWL BRIEFING ROOMS !!

................entered QCC/1 to be confronted by yet another building project.
This time some IDIOT (read Visitor) has decided that "we can't trust those pesky crew members to do a briefing, what are they saying , talking about.......ahhhhhhh lets rip down the solid walls of all the briefing rooms and replace with glass-if we have to be in a fish bowl-why not the crew ???? "
YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING!
HOW MUCH IS THIS COSTING?
EVERY DAY WE ARE TOLD -CUT ,CUT, COST SAVING, SLASH, BURN.
The only reason, I came into QCC on my day off was to see my acting Visitor as MY "manager" is off on sick leave.
oh great...............is someone ringing her up at home, harrassing, intimidating and questioning her ????????.......yeah right !
Any way, back to my original winge.
LSL, -I was coming in to abuse, fight, scream about the latest attempt in ENGAGEMENT- ..................another 2 weeks assigned LSL.
When will these GOONS get the message. If you really want to engage us.............LEAVE US ALONE! Let us get on doing what we do best, ie looking after our pax with the minimum of fuss.
Punt the Hot Cocolate, punt all the other "ENHANCEMENTS". Just give us 100% catering. Fix the IFE and close all overseas bases,piss all Visitors off.
Then, we may consider ENGAGEMENT.!
All this talk /reminicising..............life was much easier then AND we had FUN on board NOT constantly looking over ones shoulder and wondering whether the CSM has hit his KPI's !!!!!!
www

[OCCR]

you have to be kidding WWW, but then why are we surprised.
Let them spend their money, let them think the enhancements will work, let them believe what they want.
I still have fun on board , lots of it actually.
WWW why in the hell did you go in there on your day off???????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Wed Webbing Woop]

OCCR,
I just had to come in to collect my SHOW BAG, HAVE A CUP OF CHOCKIE WITH MARSHMALLOW,COMPLETE MY ......"IN THE ZONE" ASSIGNMENT AND ENGAGE WITH MY MANAGERS.
...................yeah right,..............as if !!!!!!!!
Anyway, re: Briefing rooms-just heard the next installment.
Get ready for it ! ????
We're all going to sit around ROUND briefing tables ( a la Boardroom syle)
WHAT PATHETIC CLOWN DREAMPT THIS ONE UP?????
In case they are reading-we are FLIGHT ATTENDANTS. We just want to come in, clear our files, sign on, get our work postions .........then get the fark out of there !!!
www

[lurker@R5]

tranparency is about truth & honesty

the corporate psychology that the company is subjecting the csms to is the same as making see -through briefing rooms - management voyeuristically wants to see inside crews' heads- not all of us are as lucky as qfcsm & www who have built up an IMPENETRABLE WALL OF DISENGAGED CYNICISM - a must for all aspiring L/H f/as.
its pathetic really - real transparency between management and employees comes with a relationship of mutual honesty, trust and respect for each other. this is a concept that has eluded Qantas as a company since James Srong grabbed his first performance bonus.
Corp psyche - new briefing rooms - a terrible waste of time & money.

[OCCR]

sit around a bloody table!
that is what they used to do in Perth, and look at what happened to them.
faarrrk.
(well they didn't have tables, but sat around in a circle, all hunky dory! all sweetie......)

[mostie]

Shorthaul EBA.......

It seems that a rather major hiccup occured today when the above was due to be ratified in the Industrial Relations Commission.

Rumour has it that two [ junior in their category ] shorthaul crew are pursuing a descrimination case against the seniority based bid system that sees them, as individuals, issued with rolling blank lines.

The long and short of it is that the Commisioner is taking submissions from those representing these individuals and that the EBA was not ratified..........

The ramifications for all of us [tech and cabin] who build and maintain lives around this system CANNOT be over stated.

[Eden99]

BID SYSTEM

mostie,

it's not a rumour, it is the fact.

The bid system is now in dire peril for both S/H, L/H and for pilots.

Poor leadership in the S/H Division ( who could not get crew to agree to rotational reserve for S/H CSM'S) and entrenched greed amongst elements of cabin crew has now placed preferential bidding at the mercy of the Federal Industrial Commission.

The chickens are coming home to roost.

[Bad Adventures]

I gather Mostie your talking about the ramifications for crew who do back to back San Francisco’s not the one’s who do back to back Mumbai’s and Joburgs, or in short haul the one’s who get thrown reserve every roster!

[Winfield]

Originally Posted by lurker@R5

I somehow can't imagine a group of MAM casuals laughing with "gay" abandon at the Thai Room about the tissue paper falling out of Nick's cossies - or a whole 747-200 crew sharing a meal and 50 beers at Newton Circus (they've bowled that too!) - but I guess these young turks will create their own mythology..... "Do you remember when we had that long 8 hour slip in Darwin...what a hoot!! We actually had time for an alcoholic beverage!"

My memory must be playing tricks, I thought it was Herman The German who lost the tissues in the pool at the Ramada in Bahrain?

[mostie]

mmmm.........

You "gather" incorrectly.

My concerns are for those who build a life around having "some" choice.

"Some" being Far better than none...........

[Bad Adventures]

Try telling that to someone who does 5 Joburgs a roster. Anyway whatever happens (with the bid system), it will affect different people in different ways, as was discussed in depth earlier on the last QF thread. That’s the only point I was making.

Eden99 there are S/H CSM’s (senior one’s off course) who are too scared to even operate on wide bodied aircraft anymore! Do you honestly think these people are going to vote up rotational reserve lines??

[Shlonghaul]

Fatigue

JetBlue Flight Attendant Fired For Fatigue
Long Beach, CA, March 23--JetBlue flight attendant Carolyn Livingston was fired last week after being bullied into working a flight that put her over the FAA maximum flight attendant duty period. The company accused her of sleeping on the job. She maintains that she was not, although she said she had tried to get herself and her crew released from the flight due to fatigue.
On February 17, Livingston, 35, was lead flight attendant of a four-member cabin crew that was to work a red-eye flight from Long Beach, CA, to Fort Lauderdale, FL, and back the next morning without a break. They were scheduled to report to the airport at 8:20pm and take off at 9:20pm. The flight was delayed two and a half hours, and didn't leave until 11:30pm.
During the flight, Livingston told the pilots to call the cabin crew in fatigued, as they were too tired to work the return flight back to Long Beach Airport, which would now put them over the FAA maximum 14-hour duty day.
When they landed in Fort Lauderdale, an In-flight supervisor met the plane and informed Livingston and her crew that there were no hotel rooms available in Fort Lauderdale, and that they would have to fly them all the way to New York’s JFK airport to get a hotel room if they refused to continue the trip. The supervisor also told Livingston that the return flight to Long Beach would have to cancel unless she and her crew agreed to work it.
Livingston’s crewmembers then decided to change their minds and work the return flight back to Long Beach.
“At this point I felt pressured to work the flight back, too,” Livingston said. “The supervisor intimidated me by telling me that they would have to cancel the flight if we didn’t work it. Plus, she didn’t seem to want to accept no for an answer. She informed us that they wouldn’t be able to get us a hotel room in Fort Lauderdale if we decided to stay.”
Livingston said she finally decided to go ahead and work the flight home, as it seemed to be the easiest solution for everyone involved.
Three weeks later, Livingston’s supervisor notified her of a report from a fellow crewmember that stated Livingston had been sleeping on one of the jumpseats in the back galley during the flight back to Long Beach on February 18. Sleeping on the jumpseat is a fireable offense at JetBlue. Subsequently, Livingston was placed on suspension pending an investigation.
On March 16, Livingston was terminated from JetBlue. The reason given: sleeping on the jumpseat.
“I was shocked. I absolutely was NOT sleeping on the jumpseat,” Livingston said. “Management concocted that as an excuse to fire me for attempting to call in fatigued for the flight.”
Fatigue is not a new issue for the airline crews. Indeed, it has been a major concern since the dawn of aviation. It is especially important since it impacts airline safety. Pilot fatigue has been blamed for many crashes through the years.
“Apparently safety is not JetBlue’s number one concern,” Livingston said. “Otherwise they would have allowed us to call in fatigued and relieved us from the flight. I told the oncoming pilots that we had called in fatigued, and they were shocked that In-flight didn't release us. In their opinion that was a complete no-no.”
Not only does crew fatigue impact airline safety, but also crewmembers’ health. In recent years flight attendant and pilot unions have been trying to push for stricter federal regulations regarding required crew rest and maximum duty days. Many airlines like JetBlue, however, find ways to intimidate their employees into flying past the federally mandated daily limits.
Livingston, a single mother, stated she felt she had no chance of appealing to get her job back.
JetBlue spokeswoman Jenny Dervin said the company does not comment on crewmembers to the public.
JetBlue flight attendants are not unionized.

[hawke eye]

Well, well ,well,
it seems that Eden 99 is absolutely correct. it does appear the chickens have come home to roost.
All the selfish short haul flight attendants who tho voted on never doing reserve and the junior categories ALWAYS doing reserve might teach everyone a much needed lesson.

In the coming days the commission may seek to look for some compromise. Its hight time everyone-particualrly Long Haul got their brains in order and realised its time to give something tangible and reasonable to junior crew.

Have no fear, if you choose otherwise myself and all the others who sit halfway and less in seniority(im halfway - get no choice and still get unstacked with plenty of D Days) will welcome anything the commission hands down in terms of seniority as we will be no worse off with what we currently receive from the seniority system.

With no retirement age cap and crew of all categories with no life and flying well into their sixties I'm no longer prepared to wait till they pass away from too much radiation or till they get alzeimers and forget to turn up for work,in order to wait my turn for seniority. As it now stands ill have to be about 65 before those in front of me are either effected by the above or finally realise there is no package coming.