Screaming Virgin doesn't like it rough? (or VA F/A screams during turbulence)
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Screaming Virgin doesn't like it rough? (or VA F/A screams during turbulence)
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...-23109,00.html
Screaming stewardess sparks panic
From: Agence France-Presse
From correspondents in London
February 28, 2006
VIRGIN Atlantic is investigating claims a stewardess alarmed passengers by screaming that a turbulence-hit jumbo jet was going to crash.
According to passengers, there was panic when the cabin crew member apparently lost control as the London to Las Vegas Boeing 747, with 451 passengers on board, ran into turbulence over Greenland.
"She (the stewardess) screamed every time we dropped and one point chanted three times 'We're going to crash'," one passenger said.
"This hysterical stewardess was telling everyone we were going to die," another passenger said
The incident took place last Friday.
A Virgin spokeswoman today said the airline was waiting for the crew of the flight, VS43, to return to the UK before starting an investigation.
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"We can confirm that flight VS43 from London Gatwick to Las Vegas, which departed at 10.51am on February 24, experienced unexpected turbulence approximately three hours into the flight," she said.
"The safety and security of passengers and crew is Virgin Atlantic's top priority.
"The flight deck will always keep passengers informed of expected flying conditions and where possible will try to avoid areas of expected turbulence.
"Incidents of unexpected turbulence are relatively rare but as a precaution, passengers are always advised to wear seatbelts at all times during the flight."
Screaming stewardess sparks panic
From: Agence France-Presse
From correspondents in London
February 28, 2006
VIRGIN Atlantic is investigating claims a stewardess alarmed passengers by screaming that a turbulence-hit jumbo jet was going to crash.
According to passengers, there was panic when the cabin crew member apparently lost control as the London to Las Vegas Boeing 747, with 451 passengers on board, ran into turbulence over Greenland.
"She (the stewardess) screamed every time we dropped and one point chanted three times 'We're going to crash'," one passenger said.
"This hysterical stewardess was telling everyone we were going to die," another passenger said
The incident took place last Friday.
A Virgin spokeswoman today said the airline was waiting for the crew of the flight, VS43, to return to the UK before starting an investigation.
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"We can confirm that flight VS43 from London Gatwick to Las Vegas, which departed at 10.51am on February 24, experienced unexpected turbulence approximately three hours into the flight," she said.
"The safety and security of passengers and crew is Virgin Atlantic's top priority.
"The flight deck will always keep passengers informed of expected flying conditions and where possible will try to avoid areas of expected turbulence.
"Incidents of unexpected turbulence are relatively rare but as a precaution, passengers are always advised to wear seatbelts at all times during the flight."
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Considering most of VA's trips are fairly shortish (i'll be willing to be corrected on this) I find it incredible that the passengers are evidently so traumatised and their holiday is so good that they have time to get in touch with the UK pres, even before the crew have come home again.
As crew myself, if I was being thrown around the cabin with my drinks trolley I might be inclined to look at the ceiling and yell some "choice words"
Horgy
As crew myself, if I was being thrown around the cabin with my drinks trolley I might be inclined to look at the ceiling and yell some "choice words"
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"The flight deck will always keep passengers informed of expected flying conditions and where possible will try to avoid areas of expected turbulence.
Sorry...one thing is airline "slang" but to print it on a paper....flight CREW might be more appropriate maybe....? I wouldn't like to be referred to as the "aircraft interiors" myself on a national newspaper!!
Just for the record, while I appreciate that one might want to scream in such situation, a cabin crew should keep their fears to themselves. Otherwise what would they do if they received the fanmous emergency call to report to the F/D???? Pre-meditated emergency landing/ditching??? That crew member is definitely in the wrong job, or very, VERY inexperienced.
And to finish it here, the daily mail said that severe turbulence went on and on for 30 minutes........I am sure it was not the case as in such situations the flight crew would climb, descend or find another way to make the ride a bit less rocky for everybody - including themselves. 30 minutes sounds a bit too long, I experienced such turbulence myself (and most of us) and I know what it feels like!!! As for the passengers being thrown in the air........how many times do we say that??? KEEP YOUR BELT FASTENED AT ALL TIMES WHEN SEATED!!!!
In all honesty, I can smell burnt, big time.
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i can guarantee you thet 30 mins is not long at all for severe turbulance. I remember travelling on southwest airlines from nashville to orlando ansd for the entire 3hour flt we had severe turbulance. This was before i was crew, and I thought that plane was ging to come out of the sky. With it being the hurricane and tornado season at the time, there was nowhere the pilots could go to get out of it. The pax had to hold the crew down - who were sitting on the floor ( as it was so severe they couldn't ever walk back to their seats). 30 mins is not a long time
Didn't realise that virgin 747 carried 451 pax
Didn't realise that virgin 747 carried 451 pax
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Maybe worth mentioning here that Flight Crew's definition of "Severe" is very often different to that of Cabin Crew. As a general rule, CC tend to call the degree of turb one higher than on the pilot scale. A Pilots' "Light" is often described as "Moderate" by CC, and Pilots' "Moderate" is often called "Severe" down the back. This is not just because of the fact that the ride is harsher down the back, but also because Pilots & CC are different animals, with different ways of expressing themselves. In 26 years, I've been in a lot of light/moderate, occasional moderate and severe only twice. Both the severe involved crew injuries (fortunately minor) and a lot of screaming.
jettesen's Nashville roller coaster sounds very unpleasant. I'd be surprised if it was actually Severe turb all the way, since that might raise a question about the suitability of flying that route on the day: However, he was there, and I wasn't, so I'll accept that it was very bad indeed!!
Not being a pilot myself, I'm out on a limb here, so I'll see if I can get someone who is to pass comment.
jettesen's Nashville roller coaster sounds very unpleasant. I'd be surprised if it was actually Severe turb all the way, since that might raise a question about the suitability of flying that route on the day: However, he was there, and I wasn't, so I'll accept that it was very bad indeed!!
Not being a pilot myself, I'm out on a limb here, so I'll see if I can get someone who is to pass comment.
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The Australian
Virgin Atlantic has launched an investigation into claims a flight attendant panicked during a turbulent flight and repeatedly shouted to passengers: "We're crashing."
London's The Independent reported pandemonium broke out on a flight from Gatwick to Las Vegas when it was hit by storms and plummeted thousands of metres within seconds.
A man was hurled to the ceiling of the cabin and others clung to seats, but passengers became more alarmed when an attendant on the Boeing 747 began screaming, the paper said.
Claire Daley, one of 451 people on board, hoped the crew would calm her nerves.
London's The Independent reported pandemonium broke out on a flight from Gatwick to Las Vegas when it was hit by storms and plummeted thousands of metres within seconds.
A man was hurled to the ceiling of the cabin and others clung to seats, but passengers became more alarmed when an attendant on the Boeing 747 began screaming, the paper said.
Claire Daley, one of 451 people on board, hoped the crew would calm her nerves.
"I turned round to look at our hostess for reassurance and she screamed: 'We're crashing, we're crashing, we're crashing',"
"And I just thought: 'It's over; if an air hostess is telling us we are crashing'. I really thought we were crashing,"
"She screamed every time the plane dropped, and when she screamed the whole of the back of the plane screamed"
"It was terrifying. I was almost hyperventilating. I was sobbing - I thought we weren't going to make it."
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'Severe' turbulence is rare. It often leads to a situation where the aircraft cannot be controlled and has to descend.
There has been a fair bit of moderate turbulence across the Atlantic recently. The effect of turbulence can also be dramatically different between the front and back of the aircraft.
As for 'climbing or desending to get out of it' - often the aircraft cannot climb as it is at its maximum height. Descending, unless control difficulties are being experienced, takes a fair bit of organisation over the Atlantic due to the traffic control system. Often the turbulence extends from lower levels to higher and there is 'no escape' anyway.
As said, the passengers are repeatedly told to keep their belts fastened unless they need to move around the cabin. If the signs are on they should all be seated and strapped. If they are not I have little sympathy for them and they risk injuring fellow passengers. If they are strapped in they will be safe, not necessarily comfortable.
Aircraft are built and pilots trained to cope with turbulence.
As with all media I suspect the story anyway!
There has been a fair bit of moderate turbulence across the Atlantic recently. The effect of turbulence can also be dramatically different between the front and back of the aircraft.
As for 'climbing or desending to get out of it' - often the aircraft cannot climb as it is at its maximum height. Descending, unless control difficulties are being experienced, takes a fair bit of organisation over the Atlantic due to the traffic control system. Often the turbulence extends from lower levels to higher and there is 'no escape' anyway.
As said, the passengers are repeatedly told to keep their belts fastened unless they need to move around the cabin. If the signs are on they should all be seated and strapped. If they are not I have little sympathy for them and they risk injuring fellow passengers. If they are strapped in they will be safe, not necessarily comfortable.
Aircraft are built and pilots trained to cope with turbulence.
As with all media I suspect the story anyway!
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Lol my mate was on this flight and all he said BEFORE this came out was "There was a bit of bad turbulence over Greenland but nothing major"
He used to be crew so has seen it all before. He menetioned no crew member shouting we're going to crash, no-one else screaming, no-one throwing up....
I suspect it was bad turbulence but you know how the press like to tart up a story!
He used to be crew so has seen it all before. He menetioned no crew member shouting we're going to crash, no-one else screaming, no-one throwing up....
I suspect it was bad turbulence but you know how the press like to tart up a story!
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Mirror
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_obje...name_page.html
More Journo's at work.
Passenger Paul Gibson, 30, said: "She began screaming every time the plane shook.
"She shouted at the top of her voice, 'We're going to crash! We're going to crash! We're going to crash"
The stewardess, who is in her mid-20s, was terrified. One passenger was smashed into the overhead lockers of the Boeing 747-400 while others, some in tears, gripped their seats and prayed.
"Loads of people were being sick and when someone shouted at the stewardess for more sick bags, she picked up a dozen and threw them across the cabin.
"It was raining sick bags. The aircraft was in chaos.
More Journo's at work.
Passenger Paul Gibson, 30, said: "She began screaming every time the plane shook.
"She shouted at the top of her voice, 'We're going to crash! We're going to crash! We're going to crash"
The stewardess, who is in her mid-20s, was terrified. One passenger was smashed into the overhead lockers of the Boeing 747-400 while others, some in tears, gripped their seats and prayed.
"Loads of people were being sick and when someone shouted at the stewardess for more sick bags, she picked up a dozen and threw them across the cabin.
"It was raining sick bags. The aircraft was in chaos.
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Putting aside the actual difference in severity between the front and the rear of an aircraft in turbulence..........could the differing perception of pilots and cabin crew sometimes be due to something else quite simple??
The pilots are sat down and safely strapped in and, in total contrast, the cabin crew can experience turbulence unexpectedly whilst standing up, maybe with the trollies out, dealing with hot meals and beverages and with passengers milling around the cabin.
It is scary, let me tell you!! Many years ago I had a turbulent incident when we were unloading the hot meals from the ovens. They were expecting light turbulence so the pax were strapped in but we got the go-ahead from the FD to serve the meal. Suddenly it became extremely rough and the contents of the meals, peas and all, were plastered around the galley and one of the cabin crew hit the ceiling and was knocked out. The cabin was a disaster zone with drinks splattered up the sidewalls and people's belongings thrown many rows away from where they were sitting. The captain was fairly laid-back about it and even a bit surprised at the chaos caused. The cabin crew may well disagree and be inclined to describe such turbulence as 'severe' in those circumstances!!
The pilots are sat down and safely strapped in and, in total contrast, the cabin crew can experience turbulence unexpectedly whilst standing up, maybe with the trollies out, dealing with hot meals and beverages and with passengers milling around the cabin.
It is scary, let me tell you!! Many years ago I had a turbulent incident when we were unloading the hot meals from the ovens. They were expecting light turbulence so the pax were strapped in but we got the go-ahead from the FD to serve the meal. Suddenly it became extremely rough and the contents of the meals, peas and all, were plastered around the galley and one of the cabin crew hit the ceiling and was knocked out. The cabin was a disaster zone with drinks splattered up the sidewalls and people's belongings thrown many rows away from where they were sitting. The captain was fairly laid-back about it and even a bit surprised at the chaos caused. The cabin crew may well disagree and be inclined to describe such turbulence as 'severe' in those circumstances!!
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My sympathies to all crew including 'tarti' who have suffered from turbulence. The problem HERE is in definition. Turbulence is graded 'light'/'moderate'/severe' so that it can be reported by one aircraft to another. This has NOTHING to do with the perception of the c/crew or passengers.
It is quite possible for trolleys and crew to be thrown around in 'moderate' turbulence. The whole thing has to be a liaison between pilots and c/crew, and ultimately the decision on what service to conduct is down to the senior crew member.
Of course, if this whole Virgin thing was caused by UNEXPECTED turbulence, there is not much that any pilots can do about it - because it is 'unexpected'.
Over 80% of the time when I have a met forecast of 'turbulence' it does not occur. Around 40% of the time when there is NONE forecast it does. It is all a constant balance - if it is 'forecast' over a 3 hour period of the flight and the Captain puts on the signs as a precaution - and thereby suspends service of hot drinks at least - and there is NO turbulence, everyone whinges. Perhaps the answer (c/crew cheering, I hear) is to leave the signs on all the flight. Passengers then move around at their own risk and have no claim against the airline for injury if they are not strapped in.
It is quite possible for trolleys and crew to be thrown around in 'moderate' turbulence. The whole thing has to be a liaison between pilots and c/crew, and ultimately the decision on what service to conduct is down to the senior crew member.
Of course, if this whole Virgin thing was caused by UNEXPECTED turbulence, there is not much that any pilots can do about it - because it is 'unexpected'.
Over 80% of the time when I have a met forecast of 'turbulence' it does not occur. Around 40% of the time when there is NONE forecast it does. It is all a constant balance - if it is 'forecast' over a 3 hour period of the flight and the Captain puts on the signs as a precaution - and thereby suspends service of hot drinks at least - and there is NO turbulence, everyone whinges. Perhaps the answer (c/crew cheering, I hear) is to leave the signs on all the flight. Passengers then move around at their own risk and have no claim against the airline for injury if they are not strapped in.
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i myself have been hit with severe turbulence due to a pocket preceding a storm, in the middle of the cabin the aircraft actually appeared to bend, this may or may not have been the case but i know how it looked, you could almost see the floor ripple. the jolt passed down the aircraft and 3 crew were thrown and struck the ceiling aswell as both carts, one cc landing with a cart on her leg.
the pax held us down untill it became heavy jolts and we returned to galleys. in a mild state of panic. the aircraft leveled but because of the situation and number of a/c around us we had to maintain level and for about 1hr we were hittin lots of bumps some heavy enough for items to leave surfaces. it was extremely scary but i knew we were thousands of feet from the suurface but this doesn't stop the feeling that you are simply goin to fall to pieces in the air.
i can perfectly understand anyone's fear and exageration of something bad, (if you've ever been in an rta or air incident or anything for that matter) what does appear to be hours can be just minutes, but sometimes these things are prolonged.
due to current pattern over the atlantic a prolonged bout of turbulence is possible especially as the jet stream has move several times this year.
as or fd and cc, in my experience they strap us in far before we think we have to but this seems to be because they are aware that it's worst in the depths of the cabin than at the pointy end!!
the pax held us down untill it became heavy jolts and we returned to galleys. in a mild state of panic. the aircraft leveled but because of the situation and number of a/c around us we had to maintain level and for about 1hr we were hittin lots of bumps some heavy enough for items to leave surfaces. it was extremely scary but i knew we were thousands of feet from the suurface but this doesn't stop the feeling that you are simply goin to fall to pieces in the air.
i can perfectly understand anyone's fear and exageration of something bad, (if you've ever been in an rta or air incident or anything for that matter) what does appear to be hours can be just minutes, but sometimes these things are prolonged.
due to current pattern over the atlantic a prolonged bout of turbulence is possible especially as the jet stream has move several times this year.
as or fd and cc, in my experience they strap us in far before we think we have to but this seems to be because they are aware that it's worst in the depths of the cabin than at the pointy end!!
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A friend of mine had just served out the breakfasts coming in from Hong Kong one morning. She got to the back, stowed everything away and turned to face the cabin. Then they hit a huge airpocket.
She said that it all happened in slow motion..... most of the trays were hovering in midair, along with other items, and then the aircraft levelled out and, well, picture the entire cabin covered in porridge and juice!
Years ago I stood in the back galley of a 737, we hit thermal turbulence and 2 unsecured canisters came out of their stowages. One missed me, one hit me. I had just gotten over that, trying to take my seat and strap in when we hit another airpocket and suddenly I lurch up into the air and bang my head on the ceiling. Thankfully, neither incident hurt!!
She said that it all happened in slow motion..... most of the trays were hovering in midair, along with other items, and then the aircraft levelled out and, well, picture the entire cabin covered in porridge and juice!
Years ago I stood in the back galley of a 737, we hit thermal turbulence and 2 unsecured canisters came out of their stowages. One missed me, one hit me. I had just gotten over that, trying to take my seat and strap in when we hit another airpocket and suddenly I lurch up into the air and bang my head on the ceiling. Thankfully, neither incident hurt!!
Crossing the atlantic in a B707 back in the 80s I experienced several hours of (what was for me) moderate turbulence, punctuated now and again by short bursts of pretty severe stuff. The constant banging into the arm rests bruised the top of my legs! I was sitting in the very last row. Later, when things had calmed down a tad, I visited the f/d and out of curiosity asked the Captain how he classified the turbulence. To my astonishment he replied, "light". I offered to swap places with him!
Don't sit near the back folks. You get the worst of it there.
Don't sit near the back folks. You get the worst of it there.
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This subject is very interesting for me, because I myself have been cabin crew for a number of years, flying on everything from an ATR to a 747 and recently was a passenger on a southwest flight that experienced what I would class as severe turbulance. Flight Attendent hit the roof, trolleys went everywhere we dropped out the sky and were being thrown from side to side. Throughout the whole thing I stayed clam, even shouting at passengers to calm down and helped a crew member who was injured by a cart. Since the event, every little bit of turbulance we get ( espically as a passenger, where I think you notice it more ) has been making me feeling pretty nervous. Now I have not been screaming or anything like that, but it does go to show that even the most experienced of crew can get a fright. I am HOPING it will pass with time, I know the logic behind turbulance, so I know I should not be too afraid, but for someone who has not experienced anything like it ( for example, this may have been a newish crew member, or someone who did the job, but was not always completly comfortable with the experience ) it could be pretty frightening.Problem is however Virgin look at it, as far as I am concerned, what use is she going to be in an emergency!
I feel sorry for the girl, but you cannot have a crew member responding to something like turbulance in that way. Imagine a decompression, which is far more frightening, how would she respond to that? And would she be any use to passengers, the whole reason crew are on board ( some airlines do tend to think its just to look good, I prefer the crew to look good, they just need to be useful too )
I feel sorry for the girl, but you cannot have a crew member responding to something like turbulance in that way. Imagine a decompression, which is far more frightening, how would she respond to that? And would she be any use to passengers, the whole reason crew are on board ( some airlines do tend to think its just to look good, I prefer the crew to look good, they just need to be useful too )
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There are definitions of light moderate and severe (but I cant remember them and cant find in search). What I do know is that severe feels seriously bad and there is confusion amongst pilots (many report light chop as moderate occ severe). Any enlightened beings able to post the definitions.
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Didn't realise that virgin 747 carried 451 pax
LHR based B744: 44J 32W 310Y (total 386)
It will be interesting to see what VA's investigation brings up... usually I would doubt anything coming from a lot of the UK's media, however this seems to be a fairly substantiated story?
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Some thoughts
A lot of this comes down to experience and peception.
A couple of years back flying into BFS from LHR with BMI, pre christmas, 80-90mph gales across the UK, dark windy night with lots of visible precipitation.... basically a real mucky night.
Shuttlebus down the back in the last row sitting beside a very nice young lady from JAL, travelling back home.
The plane was filled with a mixture of travellers heading home for the hols and families who had been shopping in London i.e. young children and lots of luggage in the OH lockers.
Turbulence all the way up the UK. About half way in to the flight, several of the cabin crew commented to my friend that it was as rough as some could remember.
On the approach in to Belfast it became fairly rough (All journos read extremely rough) and included a few fairly entertaining g unloads caused by downdraughts, followed by the "into the seat" moment as AP tried to maintain profile. All this accompanied by a fair amount of hunting by the auto-throttle.
I was quite happily sitting their alternating my attention between the window and the blond to my right (but mainly to the blond
) and we were happily chatting away. The rest of the cabin was deathly quiet with the sound of quiet crying to be heard towards the front - it was probably a baby or small child with air sickness...
The landing was fairly entertaining (wind sock was at about 90 degrees to the runway and fully extended) as the removal of the crab angle was accompanied by a more than firm landing. A number of people actually screamed.
Now view the comparison - there were a number of regular travellers and off-duty crew who had faith in the aircraft & crew and were happy the automatics (or crew) were flying!
And then there was a number of people for who the experience was either outside their comfort zone or outside their limit of experience.
So although there was no article in this case, can anyone guess what it might have said? (obviously leaving out any journalistic licence
)
My only interest is IF, note IF, the crew member acted unprofessionally. However, in truth in this sort of situation, I would think it would be hard to tell where the words were coming from. Poor PR for Virgin, but surely not the end of the world
OK, bet I get flamed!
Regards,
Shuttlebus
A couple of years back flying into BFS from LHR with BMI, pre christmas, 80-90mph gales across the UK, dark windy night with lots of visible precipitation.... basically a real mucky night.
Shuttlebus down the back in the last row sitting beside a very nice young lady from JAL, travelling back home.
The plane was filled with a mixture of travellers heading home for the hols and families who had been shopping in London i.e. young children and lots of luggage in the OH lockers.
Turbulence all the way up the UK. About half way in to the flight, several of the cabin crew commented to my friend that it was as rough as some could remember.
On the approach in to Belfast it became fairly rough (All journos read extremely rough) and included a few fairly entertaining g unloads caused by downdraughts, followed by the "into the seat" moment as AP tried to maintain profile. All this accompanied by a fair amount of hunting by the auto-throttle.
I was quite happily sitting their alternating my attention between the window and the blond to my right (but mainly to the blond
) and we were happily chatting away. The rest of the cabin was deathly quiet with the sound of quiet crying to be heard towards the front - it was probably a baby or small child with air sickness...The landing was fairly entertaining (wind sock was at about 90 degrees to the runway and fully extended) as the removal of the crab angle was accompanied by a more than firm landing. A number of people actually screamed.
Now view the comparison - there were a number of regular travellers and off-duty crew who had faith in the aircraft & crew and were happy the automatics (or crew) were flying!
And then there was a number of people for who the experience was either outside their comfort zone or outside their limit of experience.
So although there was no article in this case, can anyone guess what it might have said? (obviously leaving out any journalistic licence
)My only interest is IF, note IF, the crew member acted unprofessionally. However, in truth in this sort of situation, I would think it would be hard to tell where the words were coming from. Poor PR for Virgin, but surely not the end of the world
OK, bet I get flamed!
Regards,
Shuttlebus