I'll answer a few of those questions. I live in the UK so my financial set up is relatively simple - for now. (I pay tax and social securty in the UK, not Portugal).
Health insurance is BUPA. It's available 24/7/365 for you and qualifying family members.
There is a pension scheme. It's very straight forward in the UK but the continental one seems to be a lot more complicated tax efficiency/punishment wise.
Instead of a percentage of your pay and you topping it up. You get a 60% match up to your input of €13K. You are able to pay in more.
UK permits the payments to come out of gross salary (hence tax efficient).

The questions about FOs pay etc is very individual and is dependent on many variables such as flight demand and what option the individual has taken.

Hi guys,

Regarding this latest recruitment from Kura, did you receive an email acknowledgement that your application was submitted?

I’d also be curious to hear more or less how long it took to receive a positive/negative reply regarding the next step - which I believe is an online selection stage, from what I’ve read here.

I’m trying to plan on how I can make the Feb/Mar in-person selection, if I get that far.

Thank you for the insight, I appreciate the solidarity in what seems like a competitive assessment for a great employer!

They just put you on another fleet

I had the same today? any feedback you can give?
thanks in advance.

Hi guys,
Received today a email from Kura asking me to complete a one-way video interview, any feedback from this one? what should I expect?
I know that this question was made before, just trying my luck :)
Thanks in advance.

Your choice of permanent gateway will determine where you pay social security. The countries ss rules determine what you get out of it, e.g. public health insurance, state pension, unemployment insurance etc, as you will have the same status that any employee living in that country has.

On top you will have BUPA, international (without USA, only emergency) private health insurance for yourself and family members that's accessible 24/7/365. The company offers a pension plan and will match contributions to a certain level if you choose to partake in the scheme.

Regarding net salary, that setup results in some more or less favorable countries depending where you are in the salary bracket.

Germany for example has relatively high deductions for an FO just starting out as the annual gross is just at the social security cutoff point, so you pay 25% PT tax + 20%ss which is more than a regular german employee would pay at the same salary. However after one full year together with the productivity reward that will change in your favor as now the 25% PT Tax is less than the german tax, germany doesn't double tax and social security is capped at the max absolute contribution. You now have more net than a normal german employee at the same salary.

So as you see there are no blanket statements regarding net pay, you need to do your homework to work out how all of this plays out where you want to live. As a tip, google for a tax calculator for the country you are interested in, put in the gross salary but only look for the social security bit in result. Then, take the NJ gross, deduct 25%, deduct the social security figure from the calculator amd you should have a pretty good ballpark figure of the net pay in that country.

hey Man, how are you? Did you receive any news ? I submitted my application on the 15th and haven’t heard anything other than Kuras webpage on which it says I’ve submitted the application, that’s all. Thanks man. And good luck in advance.

NETJETS Europe 2024
 

Hi guys, thanks for the good information posted on the forum. I was just wondering how long did netjet Europe took to answer to those who have recieved the video interview or presentation from Kura as mentioned on the threads here. I’m a turboprop experienced guy on the Atr. , two otter etc, Anyone who got the answer or joined the company in the past had same sort or experience or having jet time is the trick even if they don’t mention it on min requirements ? Thank yeeeer all.

Brejojr The video section of the initial interview will be about specific NetJets questions. It's probably a fairly standard "tell us what you know about X company" (I think - I am not in recruitment). If you can, I would get someone to ask such questions to you so you can get more comfortable articulating your thoughts. This is pretty standard stuff for any interview.

Topperharley61 As you can imagine, Kura are pretty busy sifting through all the applications. I didn't have any jet time before joining. Multi pilot is essential though. Ideally an ATPL too. Stage 3 interviews are planned for Feb and March.

thanks a ton man, I’ll keep a look out on my mail. I’m a multi pilot airplane driver as a captain on the atr fleet , so I really hope we get to hear something.

Anyone who can give any advice of how the interview / group exercise works? What type of questions they ask during the interview, I can understand a lot of operational theory questions?
Thanks!

The interview and group exercises are pretty industry standard stuff. If you've done them before for an airline interview, then you should be reasonably familiar with the process. However, as you hopefully would have figured out, NetJets isn't an A to B airline. So I would think about the differences between the airlines and us. Safety is naturally our highest priority, but that's a given really. What do you think is important?
I do apologise for being vague, the recruiters want to see/hear your answers, not mine. ;)

I haven’t heard back yet, but I’m guessing they’re awfully busy sifting through a ton of applications, so patiently waiting for a green/red light.

On another note, I hear there are some online psychometric tests before the interview. Does anyone have advice on how we can best prepare for these, in order to demonstrate our top capacity with them?

Exciting times! Thank you

(edited to add the vital word “not” to my comment on psychometric tests 🤦‍♂️)

Pyschometrics are not designed to catch you out and preparing for them or second guessing what you think they want to see can usually be spotted. Just relax, grab a cup or tea / coffee and read the instructions carefully before beginning. Usually you need to provide your first reaction rather than deliberating for too long over the answers.

Generally we recruit motivated crews who are willing to adapt and learn and who are not put off by interacting with our owners. On a day to day basis, the actual flying is a small part of what we do. It’s managing all the services (potentially in airports that neither crew member has been to before). So your problem solving, workload management, teamwork etc that you want to demonstrate if you get to the face-to-face parts.

same here. Haven’t heard much except for resubmission of some of the documents and don’t know what to make of it. Really looking forward to work for them. Seems like a great place to be. I wish you good luck and hope you get it.

Any one for the 3 phase in Feb?

Send me PM

i'll take part in stage 3

echoyankee680
 

muy buenas,

you inbox seems full and can’t seem to get in touch with you, any alternative means of getting in touch. And huge congrats.

Anyone here who has been invited for stage 3 at 9th of March?

Send me a PM!

Hi Folks,

Would anyone who has some information on the last stage 3 please pm me with details.

Many thanks

🙏

Expect 2 group exercises on Day 1, if you are successful, you'll have Panel Interview, SIM, drug test and document check on Day 2. Both days are nicely organized.
One day later you will receive call/email from KURA whether you passed or not. I was lucky enough and I can't wait to start my career in NetJets.
Good luck everyone.

Hi Everyone,



This is my first post here on PPRuNe. Since I have only just started my pilot training, a self sponsored ATPL integrated course (For those of you for which that has been a while, it is a CPL + ATPL theory, ME, IR, PBN and MCC endorsements in my case), I am very unfamiliar with how most things work in the aviation industry. Also, please let me know if this post in any way infringes upon the guidelines here on the forum.

I want to thank everyone for the wealth of incredibly detailed information into both practical and personal aspects of being an (biz)aviator, with special thanks to Redsnail, Globally Challenged and EatMyShorts for their countless personal insights in this thread.

After digesting the whole thread, I am left with a whole lot of answers, but even more questions! I will (try) to keep it short and to the contents of this thread.

1. From my current understanding, it is not possible to join a company like NJ straight away when I finish my CPL, due to my lack of flight hours. I have not heard any of my students or teachers even mention biz aviation and things seem to work differently here than at so called regular airlines. How does one start in the biz aviation sector if companies require a certain set of hours (e.g. 1500TT)?
2. I have read a lot on this thread about (temporary) gateways, and in regards to them, tax and social security implications. (25% income tax in portugal) + tax in your country of residence if there is a delta, and social contributions in your country of residence as well. Is it possible to live in Portugal too and have your gateway there? Or is it not advisable to do so?
3. About type ratings, it sounds like NJ was hiring people for 3 specific plane types, is it possible to later switch to other plane types? If so, what are the implications of doing so (besides flying on a different plane ofcourse)?

I am reading back and realise I have failed to keep it a short post (whoops). Any and all constructive answers are appreciated. Thank you everyone for taking the time to read all this.

T.G.A.



P.S. Since this is my first post, I do not think it is possible to sent me a PM since I need three blog posts first according to my account page.

G'day TheGreenAviator,

1. Unfortunately no, NJE has in the past run a cadet scheme. It may return in the future but I suspect I'll be retired on the beach in Australia long before then. Most crews come to NJE (and other larger bizjet companies) from the military, smaller GA companies or the airlines. Most instructors in Europe have no idea about bizjets. It hasn't been on the employment radar until recently (as in the past 10 years). Most folks are under the illusion that if it's not Airbus or Boeing, it's not worth knowing. So, unless you are lucky and can get a start on a bizjet after flight school, then you'll probably start at an airline that takes low houred pilots. Get the experience and keep an eye on various job opportunities.

2. Temporary gateways etc, apply to NetJets Europe. Other companies have different set ups. You can live in Portugal if you want to work for NJE. Not a problem. Lisbon is a gateway. I can't remember if Faro is too, I think it opens up as a Summer gateway.

3. Yep, Depending on where you sit on the seniority list, you can fleet change as much as your seat lock and seniority number permits. Some fleets permit you to upgrade on it, naturally, they are the smaller fleets. For many, the sweetspot is the Latitude. APU, reasonable range, does US secondments and you can upgrade on it. However, all fleets have their pluses and minuses. Just ask any of us. :)

Hi Redsnail,

Thanks for the thorough reply.

1. I am sad to hear that it is hard to start out in the business aviation. Since I do not have hours in either category (biz or airline), the wasted time concept in one industry or another applies to a lesser degree to my situation. Indeed, so far, your comment regarding boeing and airbus seems true as well. Based on some comments earlier in this thread, I feel like the lifestyle of biz aviation (that you and a few others that seem to work there) fits me (even) better! Are you aware of any companies or employers where you can realistically start straight away after flight school? (If it is helpful, I have dutch citizenship and am willing to move anywhere globally)
2. I looked up the taxation terms for living in portugal, since country of residence is fairly adaptable, I understand why some people choose to live outside of portugal and take the 25% flat fee.
3. I am unfamiliar with the terms APU and US secondments, could you elaborate on those? Are there any specific type (ratings) that you recommend for a fresh graduate? If so, why those?

Please let me know if the bombarding of questions get annoying, or if you would prefer me to ask them in PM (I think it is available for me now)

TGA

Hi TGA,

1. Netjets only hires experienced pilots (min 1500 hours total flight time - minimum 500 hours multi-crew with multi-engine flight time). However, many smaller operators that only have one or a few other smaller aircraft will hire beginner pilots. Salaries and conditions will most likely be miles off what better companies like Netjets or FlexJet offer. I assume that many operators will charge you for your first type rating, because they don't want new hires to head out the door again as soon as they have completed their minimum hours to apply elsewhere.
2. Yes, taxation and social security take a huge chunk off of your gross salary, certainly more than 50%. Other countries, e.g. Germany, still do not tax you on top of the 25% tax at source in Portugal, but you still have to pay social security, which is also quite a sum of money.
3. APU = Auxiliary Power Unit - that small noisy engine in the tail section of aircraft that is used to generate electricity and bleed air while the engines are switched off, usually on the ground. Makes life much more comfortable when you heat/cool your cabin and do not have to sit in the dark at night while waiting on the ground. US secondments = for the last few winter seasons Netjets Europe aircraft ferried over to the US to the help "The Mothership" (Netjets US) during their ultra busy days and season, namely Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year. It is quite interesting to operate those flights between the US, Central America and The Caribbean, it's something different than the dull European stuff.

My opinion for future pilots with your profile: start your flying career with an airline. Easyjet, Ryanair, Vueling, you name it. Earn your wings there, make your first steps there, stick to the SOPs and cockpit discipling, learn how to work long days and how to manage fatigue and stress. Maybe you will even like it! When you got your 2000 - 3000 hours TT, apply with Netjets or with a legacy airline of your preference. You could also do your first steps in some small bizjet outfit, but usually the conditions (pay, hours, vacation, general treatment, SOP-adherence etc.) are not great and chances are that you will come out of that with bad habits and in a bad mood.

Hi EMS,

The minimum hour requirement you are referring to (I have also found it on ppjn), is that strictly in a biz jet of a type in the fleet of Netjets? Or are airline hours also counted in this? Would it be an advantage to have logged the hours on bizjet instead of lets say a 737 or 320?

In a few other threads I saw people mentioning some biz companies with as you stated, considerably lower T&C, but the opportunity to make a lot of flying hours in biz jets (e.g. Vistajet). Since from what I understand of those threads, you would fly 600-800BH/year there, you could work there for a year or two and then move on to a company that requires more experience to start in like NJ or FJ? I have no clue how and if that would affect habituation characteristics, what are your thoughts on that?
From what I have found out about airlines so far, it doesn’t seem like T&C (and more specifically pay) is much better starting out there, so unless you stumble upon a good starting airline, it seems like you would be stuck with low pay until you reach ATPL either way…

Interesting, taxation seems to work very differently than normal if you are employed in a different country. Can you recommend some countries that would be interesting to look up regarding their tax agreements with Portugal?

Oh wow indeed, the US secondments seem super interesting to do indeed.



Thank you for your insights so far!

Since I have reached my required posts to unlock PM, anyone, feel free to sent me one if you have questions (about/for me), or answer any my questions!
Please let me know if the questions go outside the guidelines in this thread.

Peace,
TGA

Also, another topic all together, would it be smart to proactively approach Biz Av companies, while in the integrated ATPL course, like Netjets, Flexjet and VistaJet for input on how to proceed after obtaining my frozen ATPL if I want to be employed there? Or is this generally frowned upon in this sector of the industry?

(DM is open for anyone!) ;)

Cheers, TGA

Hi TGA,

The hour requirement in NetJets Europe of 1500 hours is a slightly more complicated than that. Eg, if you did 1500 hours only in a small piston Cessna, that would not make you competitive. The hour requirements mean that you should have an ATPL. That is, you are qualified to hold a command in a multi pilot aircraft. (Yes, the actual hours required for that are closer to 3000 in reality). In what aircraft type you get those hours is not important, ideally, they should be on a multi pilot aircraft, eg A320, B787, C680, Dash 8 etc.

I don't know what the hour requirements are to join Vistajet or Flexjet. Ok just checked, Vistajet require 2500 hours.
Many of our new hire pilots have come from Ryanair. They do take cadet pilots but the T&Cs aren't brilliant. They get approximately 800-900 hours a year versus someone flying a Cessna Excel possibly getting 200 hours a year. Guess who will get the experience required to join a bigger bizjet outfit? Also, don't ignore the rigorous SOPs (standard operating procedures) that the airlines bring. The Customer focus aspect in a smaller bizjet company is good, but if you're personal operating standards is non existent, you'll struggle (initially) in the bigger companies.

Contacting the Director of Flight Operations may help with smaller companies. The difficulty is access. If they are located on an airport, just getting through security can be practically impossible unless they know you're coming. Always remember, the DFO is usually very busy, so if you don't hear from them, there's probably a good reason.
How to join "X" after gaining your CPL.
0. Get the best grades and passes you can but don't be an annoying person.
1. Get a flying job. Yep, that's the challenge. Don't be an annoying person.
2. If the first job won't get you the experience you need, eg, multi pilot turbine etc. Apply to as many as you can. Here's where not being annoying can help.
3. Keep an eye on recruitment windows. With NetJets Europe, that's through Kura on LinkedIn.

What do I mean by not being annoying? Think about the person you have to be with for 6 days. Do you want them to be irritating, annoying, miserable, whining? Or do you want someone who enjoys the challenge (whatever it may be), keen to learn, turns up prepared, knows when to speak up and knows when to chill, proactive and helps out. Be that person.

Hi Redsnail,



What I understand from your message. You advice joining an airline initially as a cadet, this mostly because you will gather flight hours quickly on a big multipilot aircraft, and in addition, learn to abide by strict SOPs?:ooh:

By approaching companies I meant mostly over mail or phone, not physically (I prefer not to take breaks during integrated course to visit companies), and then inquiring if they can provide more information on how to become eligible (i.e. more competitive a candidate). Or in other words, what is their opinion of the most effective pathway to their company.
I ask here mostly because the last thing I want to do is regarded as “annoying” before I can even seriously apply for a position (with the benefit of possibly building up a line of communication with said company). ;)

My course should finish around 2025 Q3, so that I have plenty of time before then. Luckily, I think, my flight school emphasises a lot on building soft skills. (in their words, almost everyone can learn how to become a pilot, but few learn to become aviators).

If you have any tips for me specifically in that regard PLEASE do sent me a PM. Again thank you for all the (to me) invaluable information.:)



Cheers TGA

PS. I hear from a lot of recently graduated pilots here that they do end up at ryanair, wizzair and also a few at easyjet.

Definitely prefer Ryanair over Wizzair!

Any specific reason(s) for that?

Redsnail,

I went on a hunt through ryanair’s career section after your message. It seems they are also looking for pilot on the learjet 45, both first officers and captains. What are your thoughts on switching to a learjet for ryan air after the hour requirement they list for applying for an FO learjet position(NTR: 500 on multicrew, ME, in commercial ops, TR: 500TT, 100 on type), and completing my 1500 hours on one of those. Would you get the benefit of both worlds there so to say? (Both good T&C, and strict SOPs while flying a bizjet?)

Many thanks,
TGA

Super congrats!

Here are my thoughts about the Lears @ Ryanair:
You will fly very little hours and are always on standby. They fly spare parts with those learjets. So you will only fly to the Ryanair Airports, you won't have any VIP Passenger experience. This job is not good to boost your career and flight hours. I don't think - apart from the (old) rating - it will give you any advantage over flying the 737 and get hours faster.

Agreed. I didn't hear many good things about Wizz. Payment, working times, roster - all disaster.
Ryan is doing much better as long as you fly ;) or have a fix working contract with them.

I would get my ATPL (1500 hours etc) on an airline type aircraft, eg if with Ryanair, a B737. What do they use the Lear for? Crew transport or VVIP transport? If it's only crew transport, you may as well fly the B737 and amass the hours.
However, I am not in recruitment.
BTW - we no longer use the term soft skills. It's now known as non-techs or no-techs. (technical).
Good luck with emailing the various companies, but as I have said in earlier posts, you may not hear from them as they are really busy people.
Really, for now, focus on your studies. You've got enough to do. :)

Speaking of interviews, I hope the candidates today went well. :)

I have no clue what they use it for, I simply saw the openings on their site. I’ll take your recommendation to focus on my exams for now. There’s probably limited use in mailing them right now anyway since getting my papers is quite a long time away, loads could happen between now and then. I do however enjoy getting to know more about the profession and people’s experiences over here. :)

Cheers,
TGA

Hello everyone,
Will some of lucky pilots attend the phase 3 in Farnborough the 12th of April?
Cheers,
Good WE to all of you.

Good day to all of you ! Anyone going to next session of stage 3 in April ? Willing to prepare the selection process gathering info helping to be ready on that session. Fell free to share on the forum or by PM. Safe flights !