NETJETS Europe hiring again
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 828
Likes: 98
From: Germany
"elsewhere you will" well actually not really, never paid a type rating in 20 years + career.
There's a general feeling among NJE pilots that outside NJE conditions are not good, roster being the first argument, but in fact not really, you find better packages, in terms of salary, vacation, pension plans, and even roster.
Exemption of course, if you want to live in Aberdeen or Malaga, chances are that your best option is NJE, but in the major European cities you can find better gigs. And yes, I am an ex NJE and loved it for the most part, colleagues is real asset, there's a great atmosphere among crews.
Roster is stable, but the trade-off is salary below average standard and no decent pension plan still...you can't have it all! Job security? Well in our industry forget about job security and not better at NJE, look at what happened a few months ago...
There's a general feeling among NJE pilots that outside NJE conditions are not good, roster being the first argument, but in fact not really, you find better packages, in terms of salary, vacation, pension plans, and even roster.
Exemption of course, if you want to live in Aberdeen or Malaga, chances are that your best option is NJE, but in the major European cities you can find better gigs. And yes, I am an ex NJE and loved it for the most part, colleagues is real asset, there's a great atmosphere among crews.
Roster is stable, but the trade-off is salary below average standard and no decent pension plan still...you can't have it all! Job security? Well in our industry forget about job security and not better at NJE, look at what happened a few months ago...
Yes, last year was (another) dark chapter of this company and I myself was directly affected by it. Luckily it all turned around after a few months and we are all back in our jobs with our old salaries, types and vacation. In general, though, I will still say that job security is rather high with NJE, compared to many other employers on the European market. Again, it is great to hear that there are great contracts out there and that you guys were able to secure them. All is good.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 828
Likes: 98
From: Germany
No. You take vacation blocks. Less than 9 days and they will add 2 wrap-around days on each side of this block. 10 days vacation or more, 3 days will be added at both ends. If you take a block of 18 days within one calendar month, the entire month will be off with wrap-around days on ONE side of the next or previous month only. And yes: it will/may disrupt your roster pattern.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: Germany
TBP is an additional bonus on top of the regular block hour productivity bonus. Depending on what options you take for the summer months (June-September), you will make something between 100 and almost 160 EUR extra per hour, after reaching a certain number of planned block hours during a tour. This was the first year that we tested this, those who were approved to take part in it (some fleets are under-crewed, some are over-crewed), some people took 15k home, others up 30k, just for summer.
No. You take vacation blocks. Less than 9 days and they will add 2 wrap-around days on each side of this block. 10 days vacation or more, 3 days will be added at both ends. If you take a block of 18 days within one calendar month, the entire month will be off with wrap-around days on ONE side of the next or previous month only. And yes: it will/may disrupt your roster pattern.
No. You take vacation blocks. Less than 9 days and they will add 2 wrap-around days on each side of this block. 10 days vacation or more, 3 days will be added at both ends. If you take a block of 18 days within one calendar month, the entire month will be off with wrap-around days on ONE side of the next or previous month only. And yes: it will/may disrupt your roster pattern.
I suppose all fleets for newjoiners are undercrewed and busy and would qualify for the TBP scheme?
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 828
Likes: 98
From: Germany
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: EU
No. You take vacation blocks. Less than 9 days and they will add 2 wrap-around days on each side of this block. 10 days vacation or more, 3 days will be added at both ends. If you take a block of 18 days within one calendar month, the entire month will be off with wrap-around days on ONE side of the next or previous month only. And yes: it will/may disrupt your roster pattern.
What would a roster look like if you're on part time? Would you still have 6 days ON and then more than 5 days OFF, or would it be less days ON in a row..?
Always being away for 6-7 days in a row might be a deal-breaker for me in the long run, so I'd like to see if there are any ways to mitigate that a little or if it's just something that's part of the deal.
Again many thanks for all your answers, really helpful.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
From: UK
Most tours will be 6 days (7 days for large cabin fleets but that will not be for new hires). You will occasionally get a 4 or 5 day tour to accommodate training or vacation but 6 is the standard you can count on 90% of the time.
If you don’t want to be away from home regularly for 6 days at a time then don’t join NJE. Simple really. Also don’t join with intention of going straight on to part time. It won’t work out for you.
If you don’t want to be away from home regularly for 6 days at a time then don’t join NJE. Simple really. Also don’t join with intention of going straight on to part time. It won’t work out for you.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 828
Likes: 98
From: Germany
Yes, vacation days count towards duty days and need to be substracted from the year total. With 22 vacation days you end up with 178 days and that also includes all recurrent and ground training! Your net flying days would therefore be something like 160 to 165 days a year. If you volunteer of extended days, you work more, but you obviously also make more.
I never took part-time, so I cannot comment on it with full confidence. As a new joiner you will probably not be able to apply for FW (flexible work patterns) for the first year, or two. But I might be wrong on this! There are several FW-programs to have you work more or less than the 200 standard days a year. People who are on a reduced FW-program will work normal tour-lengths and then have longer off-periods between them. Keep in mind that summer months MAY be excluded from this and you will just work less between October and May. But I am not an expert on this part of the contract/policy.
I never took part-time, so I cannot comment on it with full confidence. As a new joiner you will probably not be able to apply for FW (flexible work patterns) for the first year, or two. But I might be wrong on this! There are several FW-programs to have you work more or less than the 200 standard days a year. People who are on a reduced FW-program will work normal tour-lengths and then have longer off-periods between them. Keep in mind that summer months MAY be excluded from this and you will just work less between October and May. But I am not an expert on this part of the contract/policy.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 828
Likes: 98
From: Germany
Salary maybe OK for a low hour youngish guy looking for the next 30+ years in aviation? The issue is that it's the same deal for an ex Falcon 900 Captain (for example) with thousands of hours and aged 45. He would be staring in the face at forever RHS and just at the age when he should be earning decent money, simply is not as his future potential years fade away all too quickly.
Hmmm, handling agents earn 80k a year? Where!?
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: UK
Any UK based drivers used parental leave whilst with NJE? Despite being part of employment law, I have found past employers do not understand it well or do not have any system in place to allow employees to use it. I am hoping this isn't the case with someone with the calibre of NJ.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 828
Likes: 98
From: Germany
I wrestled for many years with my consience whilst paying these guys as I could clearly see having a handling agency as nothing but money for old rope! A few contacts a caterer, which I had and he could not believe what was being paid for a few sandwiches, a mobile phone and kerchin!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: Euroland
I know enough companies that will make you pay for an almost useless Citation-rating (on the market), or similar types. You may be able to negotiate your way out of it. At least in Netjets and Vista you know the deal beforehand.
I don't think that 70 to 80k is a "low" wage for the first 2 years. Don't forget that in quite a few countries you won't pay any additional tax on top of the tax at source in Portugal. You really need to compare net salaries in this case, not solely the gross pay. And you also need to have a look where you can find jobs, realistically. BA? Forget it. I just had a look at Condor at PPJN: 66.4k starting salary and a bit of overtime pay. That's less than Netjets, after tax. Or ASL Airlines Belgium: 43.8k in the first year, then 59.8k in the second year. As well much less than NJE. Air Hamburg: 36k to 42k starting salary, depending on fleet. THAT is low. The list goes on.
No, at Netjets you won't be bathing in money. Your motivation should be to come here for the lifestyle and on top of it the money is quite okay. The variable income can be up to 30k or 40k extra per year, don't forget this! Extra work required, though. As a captain it is easy to make 150k to 200k a year, with all the bonuses and a bit of extra work.
I don't think that 70 to 80k is a "low" wage for the first 2 years. Don't forget that in quite a few countries you won't pay any additional tax on top of the tax at source in Portugal. You really need to compare net salaries in this case, not solely the gross pay. And you also need to have a look where you can find jobs, realistically. BA? Forget it. I just had a look at Condor at PPJN: 66.4k starting salary and a bit of overtime pay. That's less than Netjets, after tax. Or ASL Airlines Belgium: 43.8k in the first year, then 59.8k in the second year. As well much less than NJE. Air Hamburg: 36k to 42k starting salary, depending on fleet. THAT is low. The list goes on.
No, at Netjets you won't be bathing in money. Your motivation should be to come here for the lifestyle and on top of it the money is quite okay. The variable income can be up to 30k or 40k extra per year, don't forget this! Extra work required, though. As a captain it is easy to make 150k to 200k a year, with all the bonuses and a bit of extra work.
No you compare gross salaries. Your tax depends on your individual circumstances so when you talk salaries you talk gross. Regardless of industry.
No one with the experience required to join NJE would pay for an XLS rating. If they pay they pay for A320 or 737 rating most of the time.
My point was that the GA salary hasn't followed the inflation while the airline salaries have. You seem to take it personal. I know NJ is a good company to work for, just saying the entry level salary is not what it used to be.
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 828
Likes: 98
From: Germany
Hi Moonwalker,
no, I do not take it personal, why should I? Actually, the less qualified pilots Netjets is able to find, the better for us here, because the company will have to increase our salaries and conditions.
Have you read the posts of the last few days? Yes, your starting salary will be 58k. But you will probably make another 15k to 30k extra from block hours, that's something that you need to factor into the equation. And as you won't pay any local tax in quite a few countries, comparing net salaries is also okay. Example: when you start with Air Hamburg on a large cabin aircraft, living in Germany, you'll make a net salary of about 27k EUR per year. With NJE you will end up with at least 31k EUR. That's 4.000 EUR more while possibly having a better life-style. And now add a yearly block hour bonus of 15k EUR, you will take a good chunk of that home, too.
By all means, if you don't like the salary and if it is of utmost importance, then NJE won't be for you. I do agree with that! But I do not think that we are grossly underpaid. Or have you seen captains on Phenom 300s who make in excess of 140k per year, gross?
no, I do not take it personal, why should I? Actually, the less qualified pilots Netjets is able to find, the better for us here, because the company will have to increase our salaries and conditions.
Have you read the posts of the last few days? Yes, your starting salary will be 58k. But you will probably make another 15k to 30k extra from block hours, that's something that you need to factor into the equation. And as you won't pay any local tax in quite a few countries, comparing net salaries is also okay. Example: when you start with Air Hamburg on a large cabin aircraft, living in Germany, you'll make a net salary of about 27k EUR per year. With NJE you will end up with at least 31k EUR. That's 4.000 EUR more while possibly having a better life-style. And now add a yearly block hour bonus of 15k EUR, you will take a good chunk of that home, too.
By all means, if you don't like the salary and if it is of utmost importance, then NJE won't be for you. I do agree with that! But I do not think that we are grossly underpaid. Or have you seen captains on Phenom 300s who make in excess of 140k per year, gross?
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 23
Likes: 2
From: Die Insel Thule
Also what I’d like to add regarding the whole “are they good T&Cs vs they are not” discussion.
For those of you who think they aren’t please keep in mind everybody’s experience is subjective because of past and current experiences.
I’ve worked for roughly 10 years in aviation and never had T&Cs like this.
On top of that, because of the pandemic many are either still working but not flying, flying but not happy where they are or how things are going, or even worse just unemployed. And I know plenty of people in all three of those categories.
So if you have better working conditions where you are at that different, better, anonymous company or if you had those in the past and feel this is beneath you, don’t slag other people off over it.
Or share those triple A companies with us and then the discussion might get interesting.
For those of you who think they aren’t please keep in mind everybody’s experience is subjective because of past and current experiences.
I’ve worked for roughly 10 years in aviation and never had T&Cs like this.
On top of that, because of the pandemic many are either still working but not flying, flying but not happy where they are or how things are going, or even worse just unemployed. And I know plenty of people in all three of those categories.
So if you have better working conditions where you are at that different, better, anonymous company or if you had those in the past and feel this is beneath you, don’t slag other people off over it.
Or share those triple A companies with us and then the discussion might get interesting.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,451
Likes: 6
From: schermoney and left front seat
"So if you have better working conditions where you are at that different, better, anonymous company or if you had those in the past and feel this is beneath you, don’t slag other people off over it."
If you accept anything, you´ll get nothing.
And just for the record: I think working for NJE isn´t the worst gig by any stretch of the imagination. I was very impressed with them in 2009 etcetc. There are many other operators out there who are way worse.
If you accept anything, you´ll get nothing.
And just for the record: I think working for NJE isn´t the worst gig by any stretch of the imagination. I was very impressed with them in 2009 etcetc. There are many other operators out there who are way worse.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Bologna IT
Hi all,
Question for who already attended the interview in Farnborough.
At the documents check, do they ask for the full logbook or just the last pages??
I have an electronic logbook and I'm wondering if they want me to print everything or they have enough of the last 3/5.
Thanks for the help ☺️
Good luck to all!!
Question for who already attended the interview in Farnborough.
At the documents check, do they ask for the full logbook or just the last pages??
I have an electronic logbook and I'm wondering if they want me to print everything or they have enough of the last 3/5.
Thanks for the help ☺️
Good luck to all!!
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Europe
However, I'd far rather we moved the discussion to the assessment process and the job itself.
Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: The Nordics
Hi all,
Question for who already attended the interview in Farnborough.
At the documents check, do they ask for the full logbook or just the last pages??
I have an electronic logbook and I'm wondering if they want me to print everything or they have enough of the last 3/5.
Thanks for the help ☺️
Good luck to all!!
Question for who already attended the interview in Farnborough.
At the documents check, do they ask for the full logbook or just the last pages??
I have an electronic logbook and I'm wondering if they want me to print everything or they have enough of the last 3/5.
Thanks for the help ☺️
Good luck to all!!