Lottery 'Commies' say NO to Vulcan
Lottery 'Commies' say NO to Vulcan
Read an article in the Mail on Sunday that states that the Lottery lot have refused a grant to the Vulcan Restoration Fund!!
I simply can't believe that a worthwhile project to get one of the UK's finest ever aircraft back into the air was seen as a waste of money??
The revenue that the Vulcan would create by being and flying at Airshows around the world would, I'm sure, be huge. I have very fond memories of attending airshows as a child and standing in awe as the Vulcan flew.
The RAF should step in and prehaps drop some of the BoB flight to fund it. Lets face it, we have seen the Spit and Lancaster a million times now and its time for a new attraction.
The most annoying thing of all is seeing some of the stupid projects that ARE given Lottery cash. Its not PC to have a Nuclear bomber funded by the Lottery but its fine to give £20m to help bl**dy immigrants and asylum seekers!!
Its the peoples money and I believe that we should all petition the Government to step in and stop the Vulcan's sale on Ebay!
I simply can't believe that a worthwhile project to get one of the UK's finest ever aircraft back into the air was seen as a waste of money??
The revenue that the Vulcan would create by being and flying at Airshows around the world would, I'm sure, be huge. I have very fond memories of attending airshows as a child and standing in awe as the Vulcan flew.
The RAF should step in and prehaps drop some of the BoB flight to fund it. Lets face it, we have seen the Spit and Lancaster a million times now and its time for a new attraction.
The most annoying thing of all is seeing some of the stupid projects that ARE given Lottery cash. Its not PC to have a Nuclear bomber funded by the Lottery but its fine to give £20m to help bl**dy immigrants and asylum seekers!!
Its the peoples money and I believe that we should all petition the Government to step in and stop the Vulcan's sale on Ebay!
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Agree 100% !!!!
I too have strong memories of the Vulcan thundering around the skies of Biggin Hill (used to live directly under the approach for runway 03). What on earth is going on?! I thought that was exactly why the lottery was there, to help fund and preserve treasures like this.
I don't know if this still stands true, but I thought airshows were the 2nd largest spectator event after football. Why then, are the lottery lot not prepared to support this important preservation project.
The Vulcan is a spectacular aircraft. There're something like 52 spits in flying condition now? (may be wrong) High time to channel some money into a unique aircraft that's equally as impressive!
I too have strong memories of the Vulcan thundering around the skies of Biggin Hill (used to live directly under the approach for runway 03). What on earth is going on?! I thought that was exactly why the lottery was there, to help fund and preserve treasures like this.
I don't know if this still stands true, but I thought airshows were the 2nd largest spectator event after football. Why then, are the lottery lot not prepared to support this important preservation project.
The Vulcan is a spectacular aircraft. There're something like 52 spits in flying condition now? (may be wrong) High time to channel some money into a unique aircraft that's equally as impressive!
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This is a absolute disgrace, if some arty farty tosser wanted to wrap a Vulcan in brown paper as a artistic statement, they would be falling over their shirt lifting selves to give money.
F*ck em.
F*ck em.
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Are those the same "Lottery Commies" who recently made a grant of £9million for the redevelopment of Hangar 1, the final stage of the Imperial War Museum's improvements at Duxford? You mean the Mail on Sunday didn't mention that?
Would that be the same Mail on Sunday/Daily Mail that was almost charged with criminal incitement recently, for publishing the address of Lady Brittan's office, encouraging its readership to 'show their anger' that her asylum seekers' charity had gained a modest Lottery grant. The readers duly rallied round and sent a nice collection of sharp objects, excrement and other nasties.
Daily Mail/Mail on Sunday: $hit in, $hit out.
Would that be the same Mail on Sunday/Daily Mail that was almost charged with criminal incitement recently, for publishing the address of Lady Brittan's office, encouraging its readership to 'show their anger' that her asylum seekers' charity had gained a modest Lottery grant. The readers duly rallied round and sent a nice collection of sharp objects, excrement and other nasties.
Daily Mail/Mail on Sunday: $hit in, $hit out.
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The "Commie" comment was OTT, but it's still irritating to see Lottery money being given to an organisation supporting asylum seekers and then refused to a worthy cause trying to preserve part of our own heritage.
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Well, I have to say that I both agree and disagree with the comments made so far.
The first thing Grimweasel, There is no way that the RAF should reduce the BOB flight funding to pay for a private venture that is sure to make one individual a LOT of money should it ever happen. It doesn’t matter how many spit’s there are flying in the sky’s today, the RAF has made it it’s business to preserve a handful for them to demonstrate / display to the British public and we must respect them for that. I’d sooner see the Red Arrows funding reduced (And I live at Scampton!) – No, just think that with all the revenue that the Red Arrows bring to Bae, they could help with the funding!
Anyway, if this Vulcan thing is going to be so big, why do you think they are struggling with money issues? It’s just a thought. I remember though where there was a time that all we heard from brunthingthorpe was that there was plenty of money, it was the CAA who were standing in the way. Now it seems like it’s a possibility, there’s no money! The other thing we all heard about was how the Americans were going to help fund it in order to get some flight testing time out of the aircraft… what happened to that? Oh, and then there’s always the story about how if they cant raise the money here, then it will be sold to an American who will fly it over there and it will be lost forever. I think that’s wrong too. The Vulcan was taken to Bruntingthorpe for preservation. If it cant fly, then that’s no reason to sell it. I wonder if it was really bought for preservation, or just as a mechanism to make a lot of money.
And what happened to all the money that was raised from the Air shows that used to be at Bruntingthorpe? Brunthingthorpe was supposed to be the next Duxford…. It’s not looking good so far!
Sorry, just very cynical about it all. Still, I do agree with you on the lottery side! They had out money to some awful seemingly awful plans but wont help others. Still, in their defence, they have helped out with a lot of aviation related things. I’m sure there is something in the grant ‘rules’ that money cant be given to projects to restore ‘working’ vehicles.
The first thing Grimweasel, There is no way that the RAF should reduce the BOB flight funding to pay for a private venture that is sure to make one individual a LOT of money should it ever happen. It doesn’t matter how many spit’s there are flying in the sky’s today, the RAF has made it it’s business to preserve a handful for them to demonstrate / display to the British public and we must respect them for that. I’d sooner see the Red Arrows funding reduced (And I live at Scampton!) – No, just think that with all the revenue that the Red Arrows bring to Bae, they could help with the funding!
Anyway, if this Vulcan thing is going to be so big, why do you think they are struggling with money issues? It’s just a thought. I remember though where there was a time that all we heard from brunthingthorpe was that there was plenty of money, it was the CAA who were standing in the way. Now it seems like it’s a possibility, there’s no money! The other thing we all heard about was how the Americans were going to help fund it in order to get some flight testing time out of the aircraft… what happened to that? Oh, and then there’s always the story about how if they cant raise the money here, then it will be sold to an American who will fly it over there and it will be lost forever. I think that’s wrong too. The Vulcan was taken to Bruntingthorpe for preservation. If it cant fly, then that’s no reason to sell it. I wonder if it was really bought for preservation, or just as a mechanism to make a lot of money.
And what happened to all the money that was raised from the Air shows that used to be at Bruntingthorpe? Brunthingthorpe was supposed to be the next Duxford…. It’s not looking good so far!
Sorry, just very cynical about it all. Still, I do agree with you on the lottery side! They had out money to some awful seemingly awful plans but wont help others. Still, in their defence, they have helped out with a lot of aviation related things. I’m sure there is something in the grant ‘rules’ that money cant be given to projects to restore ‘working’ vehicles.
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Grob Driver, you've been listening to far too many silly rumours from the sounds of it.
Brunty have never had plenty of money - CAA approval/BAe back-up was always the problem - though they may not have realised quite how expensive doing things properly would be. Only when Marshalls got behind it all did it look likely that they could get anywhere, and that's when fund-raising seriously began.
Americans helping for flight testing time - this was an entirely scurrilous story dreamt up by a little weasel by the name of Nigel Pierce who started up a club of sorts based around XM655 at Wellesbourne, promising it would soon be flying with American money, doing work for the USN etc. Needless to say he disappeared into the night with everybody's money. It now crops up as a rumour around 558 of course, as no juicy rumour ever dies entirely.
Money raised from air shows at Brunty... wasn't much and went on getting new exhibits and maintaining existing ones. Unfortunately the big hangar is far too valuable as a revenue source for storing things to be given up entirely to putting aircraft in - 558 costs the owner a great deal of money, taking up half the hangar as it does. As for being the next Duxford, one of the driving forces behind that idea was Nick Grace and sadly he is no longer with us - and with him died those plans.
At the end of the day there are plenty of static Vulcans, and if there is a chance of seeing 558 fly in another country, but none here... then it's an easy choice to make, particularly if you are the owner, and it's costing you wads of cash just having her sit there doing nothing.
Personally I'd think it was a bit of a kick in the teeth to those who have donated money over the last 2 years but I can see the reasoning why. I agree with you that no way should the BBMF be cut down to help fund the Vulcan... but get rid of a Red or two, fair enough. Paint the big V red white a white speed stripe and call it Red 9.
Brunty have never had plenty of money - CAA approval/BAe back-up was always the problem - though they may not have realised quite how expensive doing things properly would be. Only when Marshalls got behind it all did it look likely that they could get anywhere, and that's when fund-raising seriously began.
Americans helping for flight testing time - this was an entirely scurrilous story dreamt up by a little weasel by the name of Nigel Pierce who started up a club of sorts based around XM655 at Wellesbourne, promising it would soon be flying with American money, doing work for the USN etc. Needless to say he disappeared into the night with everybody's money. It now crops up as a rumour around 558 of course, as no juicy rumour ever dies entirely.
Money raised from air shows at Brunty... wasn't much and went on getting new exhibits and maintaining existing ones. Unfortunately the big hangar is far too valuable as a revenue source for storing things to be given up entirely to putting aircraft in - 558 costs the owner a great deal of money, taking up half the hangar as it does. As for being the next Duxford, one of the driving forces behind that idea was Nick Grace and sadly he is no longer with us - and with him died those plans.
At the end of the day there are plenty of static Vulcans, and if there is a chance of seeing 558 fly in another country, but none here... then it's an easy choice to make, particularly if you are the owner, and it's costing you wads of cash just having her sit there doing nothing.
Personally I'd think it was a bit of a kick in the teeth to those who have donated money over the last 2 years but I can see the reasoning why. I agree with you that no way should the BBMF be cut down to help fund the Vulcan... but get rid of a Red or two, fair enough. Paint the big V red white a white speed stripe and call it Red 9.
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Damien B.
Silly rumours aren’t so silly when you know where they come from. Everything I’ve heard about the Vulcan (558) has come from someone VERY close to the project. A dear friend of mine who’s name shall remain blank on an open forum. However, I trust him and what he says far more than I trust pprune! That’s not to say that I don’t trust you all…. My friend is VERY close to the project, and I have the up most respect for him and what he says.
Flying her in another country because it’s costing wads of cash to keep her maintained. Ah, and now the truth comes out! Money, money, money! Like I said, you all go on about its importance in British aviation and engineering (which it most certainly is), so how can you justify loosing it to America? Even still, there’s not that many in this country…. Certainly not ones in as good a condition as 558.
One last thing. CAA/BAe backup was always a problem until ‘Marshals’ came along. Mmm, it’s interesting that isn’t it? Ok, it was originally built by AVRO, but it’s now basically a BAe aircraft. How come they need marshals on the case before it can actually happen? Don’t want to be slanderous, but anyone in the Air force will know about some of their projects! I’m saying no more! Just think that if anyone has the ability to get her in the air, then it would be BAe, NOT Marshals!
Oh, on the subject of rumours… was it just a ‘rumour’ that if she was ever flown again, then she would operate out of Scampton because of Brunthingthorpe’s lack of fire cover and the poor condition of the runway?
Anyway, Good Luck to all involved, I hope it happens… Just don’t try to make a quick buck but selling her to America!
Silly rumours aren’t so silly when you know where they come from. Everything I’ve heard about the Vulcan (558) has come from someone VERY close to the project. A dear friend of mine who’s name shall remain blank on an open forum. However, I trust him and what he says far more than I trust pprune! That’s not to say that I don’t trust you all…. My friend is VERY close to the project, and I have the up most respect for him and what he says.
Flying her in another country because it’s costing wads of cash to keep her maintained. Ah, and now the truth comes out! Money, money, money! Like I said, you all go on about its importance in British aviation and engineering (which it most certainly is), so how can you justify loosing it to America? Even still, there’s not that many in this country…. Certainly not ones in as good a condition as 558.
One last thing. CAA/BAe backup was always a problem until ‘Marshals’ came along. Mmm, it’s interesting that isn’t it? Ok, it was originally built by AVRO, but it’s now basically a BAe aircraft. How come they need marshals on the case before it can actually happen? Don’t want to be slanderous, but anyone in the Air force will know about some of their projects! I’m saying no more! Just think that if anyone has the ability to get her in the air, then it would be BAe, NOT Marshals!
Oh, on the subject of rumours… was it just a ‘rumour’ that if she was ever flown again, then she would operate out of Scampton because of Brunthingthorpe’s lack of fire cover and the poor condition of the runway?
Anyway, Good Luck to all involved, I hope it happens… Just don’t try to make a quick buck but selling her to America!
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I've heard silly rumours from people VERY VERY close to the project, doesn't make them any less silly. TVOC have been so close-mouthed about progress (or lack thereof) that rumours have been inevitable - and when they are from people who work at Brunty, they gain an aura of credibility that they do not deserve. I run the websites for both Bruntingthorpe and Vulcan XM655 so am privy to a fair bit of insider info on the 558 project, but still hear lots of silly info being bandied about by people who should know better.
Talk to David Walton rather than listening to rumours, no matter how highly placed you might think your source is. I've heard so much nonsense about 558 now that I only believe things when I hear them from David - the aircraft's owner.
Not many Vulcans in this country?
Excluding 558, there are 3 others in taxiable condition and 12 complete static examples (2 of which are hangared) plus assorted nose sections.
Complete listing here:
http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co...survivors.html
Believe me nobody is after a quick buck. If you think operating an old jet is an easy way to a profit... for gawd's sake show the rest of us the secret!
Edit - BBC story here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2487559.stm
Talk to David Walton rather than listening to rumours, no matter how highly placed you might think your source is. I've heard so much nonsense about 558 now that I only believe things when I hear them from David - the aircraft's owner.
Not many Vulcans in this country?
Excluding 558, there are 3 others in taxiable condition and 12 complete static examples (2 of which are hangared) plus assorted nose sections.
Complete listing here:
http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co...survivors.html
Believe me nobody is after a quick buck. If you think operating an old jet is an easy way to a profit... for gawd's sake show the rest of us the secret!
Edit - BBC story here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2487559.stm
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Great pity, things do not appear to have improved since this article appeared in the DT(15/1/2001):
"THE last of Britain's Vulcan nuclear bombers has been saved from sale to American buyers, thanks largely to support from Daily Telegraph readers.
More than 3,000 gave money following an article warning that the project to restore the aircraft was in danger of foundering because of lack of money. They sent £30,000 - an average of £10 each - to the Vulcan Restoration Trust Appeal, based at Bruntingthorpe airfield near Leicester.
David Walton, who bought the aircraft from the RAF in 1995, said: "We're still a long way short of our target but the money we have received from the public since the Telegraph article appeared means that the Vulcan will definitely stay in Britain. Public interest has been phenomenal. When we get the aircraft flying next year there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it will be a stunner at air shows and events across the country."
The project's members decided to appeal to the public for the £1.5 million needed to save the aircraft following a lack of interest from commercial sponsors. A minimum donation of £1 enrolled donors as Friends of the Vulcan, providing them with information about its progress. The donors will also have entry to a ballot for a personalised fly-past next year.
About £700,000 has already been spent on getting the aircraft to the state where major engineering work has official approval to proceed. About £1 million still needs to be raised."
There are 16 airframes left in this country, and about 5 worldwide out of the 136 built. Needless to say, they are in varying condition. See http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/mongsoft/vrt.htm
"THE last of Britain's Vulcan nuclear bombers has been saved from sale to American buyers, thanks largely to support from Daily Telegraph readers.
More than 3,000 gave money following an article warning that the project to restore the aircraft was in danger of foundering because of lack of money. They sent £30,000 - an average of £10 each - to the Vulcan Restoration Trust Appeal, based at Bruntingthorpe airfield near Leicester.
David Walton, who bought the aircraft from the RAF in 1995, said: "We're still a long way short of our target but the money we have received from the public since the Telegraph article appeared means that the Vulcan will definitely stay in Britain. Public interest has been phenomenal. When we get the aircraft flying next year there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it will be a stunner at air shows and events across the country."
The project's members decided to appeal to the public for the £1.5 million needed to save the aircraft following a lack of interest from commercial sponsors. A minimum donation of £1 enrolled donors as Friends of the Vulcan, providing them with information about its progress. The donors will also have entry to a ballot for a personalised fly-past next year.
About £700,000 has already been spent on getting the aircraft to the state where major engineering work has official approval to proceed. About £1 million still needs to be raised."
There are 16 airframes left in this country, and about 5 worldwide out of the 136 built. Needless to say, they are in varying condition. See http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/mongsoft/vrt.htm
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You only believe things that you hear from David…. Interesting… I’ve heard him say a lot of things too over the past few years, Er, none of which have yet to come into fruit! Still Mr Walton, if you’re reading this, I must thank you once again for allowing me to sit on one of the ‘fast taxi runs’ in the Vulcan (And victor!) (And so many thanks to my friend who arranged it!)
But to be honest with you Damien, I wouldn’t say that 15 complete airframes is a massive amount, and like you said, not many of them are in hangars. It has to be said, that many of the existing Vulcan’s are starting to fall into a poor state of repair. Call me an old grouch, but unless someone spends a lot of money over the next 10 years, I think we’ll see a large reduction in the number of surviving Vulcan’s. You can’t just leave a machine like exposed to the elements and expect it to last forever… It just wont happen.
Anyway, if you’re privy to a fair bit of info… Please tell us all… what is the latest situation with the aircraft?
Oh god… Just read your link to the BBC news page… Auctioned on the internet! You’ve got to be joking! Why cant Mr Walton, keep the aircraft in a taxable condition and be happy with that rather than threaten us with a sale to the Americans?
But to be honest with you Damien, I wouldn’t say that 15 complete airframes is a massive amount, and like you said, not many of them are in hangars. It has to be said, that many of the existing Vulcan’s are starting to fall into a poor state of repair. Call me an old grouch, but unless someone spends a lot of money over the next 10 years, I think we’ll see a large reduction in the number of surviving Vulcan’s. You can’t just leave a machine like exposed to the elements and expect it to last forever… It just wont happen.
Anyway, if you’re privy to a fair bit of info… Please tell us all… what is the latest situation with the aircraft?
Oh god… Just read your link to the BBC news page… Auctioned on the internet! You’ve got to be joking! Why cant Mr Walton, keep the aircraft in a taxable condition and be happy with that rather than threaten us with a sale to the Americans?
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Well I've had a good look round most of the surviving Vs and only the one at Blackpool is in dire straits, the rest aren't doing too badly at all. I agree none will last forever but then what does. As long as Duxford and Hendon are around we'll have a pair in excellent nick, and our lot at Wellesbourne don't intend allowing 655 to deterioriate any - nor do the Southend mob with 426. The Midland Air Museum are currently repainting theirs and treating any corrosion - it's very sound considering its long stay outdoors.
Current info? Try the 558 club's site, which has the latest TVOC press release on it:
www.vulcan558club.com
It would be rather silly for me to blab anything I hear that has been told to me in confidence, would it not?
Current info? Try the 558 club's site, which has the latest TVOC press release on it:
www.vulcan558club.com
It would be rather silly for me to blab anything I hear that has been told to me in confidence, would it not?
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Paint can hide a lot! When did you last look around 607? She leaks like crazy and while the paint tells one story, the rust tells another. This is repeated at most of the Vulcan’s I’ve seen over the years. My old man was Vulcan aircrew so there is a ‘family interest’. I think I’ve seen most of the UK survivors, if not all.
Like I said to Dr Plenning… You need a few million pounds for this project yet I very rarely see people collecting money at air shows. The various Vulcan charities all have a donation pot, but how about coming up with some agreement where major air show organisers give you £1 for each ticket, and in return, you offer their first Vulcan display at a '‘reduced rate'? It’s just a thought.
As for the TVOC press release…. Doesn’t really tell you much though does it. I’m not interested in vacancies, or badge designs. Where’s the nitty gritty info about 558, the condition she’s in and what the plans are? Is it literally a case on no money from the lottery = sell her, or are there ‘contingency plans’? I’ll keep my eyes open on Ebay!
Like I said to Dr Plenning… You need a few million pounds for this project yet I very rarely see people collecting money at air shows. The various Vulcan charities all have a donation pot, but how about coming up with some agreement where major air show organisers give you £1 for each ticket, and in return, you offer their first Vulcan display at a '‘reduced rate'? It’s just a thought.
As for the TVOC press release…. Doesn’t really tell you much though does it. I’m not interested in vacancies, or badge designs. Where’s the nitty gritty info about 558, the condition she’s in and what the plans are? Is it literally a case on no money from the lottery = sell her, or are there ‘contingency plans’? I’ll keep my eyes open on Ebay!
Last edited by Grob Driver; 19th Nov 2002 at 22:05.
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Damien,
Afraid I can't agree with you concerning the state of the remaining Vulcans. Sadly the one at Sunderland is falling into a sad state with all the jetpipes rusted through. What worries me more is that was the open air museum which had an aircraft (Varsity/Viking?) destroyed by fire by vandals some years ago. Fair comment about the Imp War Museum as long as they don't repeat what the RAF Museum Hendon did to the penultimate Beverley some years ago - now there's one...
Afraid I can't agree with you concerning the state of the remaining Vulcans. Sadly the one at Sunderland is falling into a sad state with all the jetpipes rusted through. What worries me more is that was the open air museum which had an aircraft (Varsity/Viking?) destroyed by fire by vandals some years ago. Fair comment about the Imp War Museum as long as they don't repeat what the RAF Museum Hendon did to the penultimate Beverley some years ago - now there's one...
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Just to pop back to the Lottery 'Commies' - the constitution of the National Lottery specifically forbids the donation of money to certain projects. One of the forbidden objectives is the preservation of old aeroplanes, so the 'commies' have no option but to deny funding.
On the subject of getting the old girl flying again and keeping her in the air on a sustained basis, I well remember how difficult it was to keep the Vulcans flying back in the sixties when we not only had all the spares imaginable but also the luxury of the "VOG" system that forced the aircraft industry to drop whatever it was doing and turn out whatever we needed, whenever we needed it. The idea of flying a Vulcan without all the technical support, spares and other resources available to the "V" force always was a non-starter - a mere pipe dream. I'd love to see a Vulcan flying again but as a hard headed engineer I just know that it can never happen. Sad but thats the way it is...
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Through difficulties to the cinema
On the subject of getting the old girl flying again and keeping her in the air on a sustained basis, I well remember how difficult it was to keep the Vulcans flying back in the sixties when we not only had all the spares imaginable but also the luxury of the "VOG" system that forced the aircraft industry to drop whatever it was doing and turn out whatever we needed, whenever we needed it. The idea of flying a Vulcan without all the technical support, spares and other resources available to the "V" force always was a non-starter - a mere pipe dream. I'd love to see a Vulcan flying again but as a hard headed engineer I just know that it can never happen. Sad but thats the way it is...
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Through difficulties to the cinema
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Blacksheep
I do appreciate your timely reminder about the difficulties of keeping Vulcans flying back in the sixties. But I seem to remember that most of the problems were to do with the NBS and other warlike bits of electronic gear. Would it be THAT difficult to maintain the airframe, engines, electrics, flight control system, instruments, some basic comms and a "pocket GPS"? We would only be interested in day/VMC.
I do appreciate your timely reminder about the difficulties of keeping Vulcans flying back in the sixties. But I seem to remember that most of the problems were to do with the NBS and other warlike bits of electronic gear. Would it be THAT difficult to maintain the airframe, engines, electrics, flight control system, instruments, some basic comms and a "pocket GPS"? We would only be interested in day/VMC.
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sorry to intrude
very damaging the lottery no vote
but hardly surprising
just look at the lightning, shackelton and buccaneer to name but a few
aviation history in this country has gone down the toilet in the last twentey years
i hope for a change in this culture but not going to hope for that long
rgrds
very damaging the lottery no vote
but hardly surprising
just look at the lightning, shackelton and buccaneer to name but a few
aviation history in this country has gone down the toilet in the last twentey years
i hope for a change in this culture but not going to hope for that long
rgrds