Lottery 'Commies' say NO to Vulcan
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Damien,
That’s a very comprehensive reply there… thanks!
However, I still have to disagree with a few (quite a few!) of the points you’ve made.
1) I don’t agree that people would rather see her go overseas to fly than ‘sit around doing nothing’ – She doesn’t need to sit around doing nothing… She’s a working example and can therefore be displayed as such. Oh she’s costing Mr Walton a lot of money. Well, I’m sure he knew what he was letting himself in for when he decided to buy here.
2) Why has the owner (Mr Walton) bankrolled so much of the project out of his own pocket…? Oh Damien, that ones a really easy question… IT’S HIS BLOODY AIRCRAFT!… THAT’S WHY!!!!! I need some new tyres on my car but I wouldn’t expect you lot to pay for it!
3) You say only the one at Blackpool is in really poor condition. NO, NO, NO, you’re wrong. I’m sorry, but the majority of the ones outside are in a poor state of repair, and like I said, unless a lot of money is spent quickly, I think we’ll see the numbers reduce quite dramatically over the next 10 years.
4) Bit’s of 607 at Wado have been used on other Vulcan’s… I hope not 558! If so, I REALLY don’t want to see her take to the sky’s again! Despite what you might think… all these remaining Vulcan’s are in no where near the condition, you’d like to think they are in.
5) Asking Mr Walton questions. I have contacted TVOC (Dr Pleming in particular) with issues about the Vulcan, and suggestions on how they can raise money, NO ONE has ever got back to me. As for the ‘poor chap’ standing up every time a silly rumour is spouted o say if it’s true or not. No, I don’t want that. I would just like some information as to what the plans are. They keep asking for money, but no one knows what’s going to happen with their money. I think there will be a LOT of very unhappy people though if they’ve all donated £10 to let the Americans fly it.
Maybe next time you talk to the good Mr Walton, you can ask him to come on PPRuNe and answer our questions!
That’s a very comprehensive reply there… thanks!
However, I still have to disagree with a few (quite a few!) of the points you’ve made.
1) I don’t agree that people would rather see her go overseas to fly than ‘sit around doing nothing’ – She doesn’t need to sit around doing nothing… She’s a working example and can therefore be displayed as such. Oh she’s costing Mr Walton a lot of money. Well, I’m sure he knew what he was letting himself in for when he decided to buy here.
2) Why has the owner (Mr Walton) bankrolled so much of the project out of his own pocket…? Oh Damien, that ones a really easy question… IT’S HIS BLOODY AIRCRAFT!… THAT’S WHY!!!!! I need some new tyres on my car but I wouldn’t expect you lot to pay for it!
3) You say only the one at Blackpool is in really poor condition. NO, NO, NO, you’re wrong. I’m sorry, but the majority of the ones outside are in a poor state of repair, and like I said, unless a lot of money is spent quickly, I think we’ll see the numbers reduce quite dramatically over the next 10 years.
4) Bit’s of 607 at Wado have been used on other Vulcan’s… I hope not 558! If so, I REALLY don’t want to see her take to the sky’s again! Despite what you might think… all these remaining Vulcan’s are in no where near the condition, you’d like to think they are in.
5) Asking Mr Walton questions. I have contacted TVOC (Dr Pleming in particular) with issues about the Vulcan, and suggestions on how they can raise money, NO ONE has ever got back to me. As for the ‘poor chap’ standing up every time a silly rumour is spouted o say if it’s true or not. No, I don’t want that. I would just like some information as to what the plans are. They keep asking for money, but no one knows what’s going to happen with their money. I think there will be a LOT of very unhappy people though if they’ve all donated £10 to let the Americans fly it.
Maybe next time you talk to the good Mr Walton, you can ask him to come on PPRuNe and answer our questions!
Blacksheep has it about right. I flew them in the 70's and even with hangars full of spares and barrack blocks full of moles it was very difficult to keep them going. Flatus has a point, but don't forget lots of big parts failed as well; it was unusual to have just a single engine failure!
Nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all.
Nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all.
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Vulcan Lottery cash
Damien,
The grob driver has hit the nail right on the head
It costs Mr Walton a lot of money 'cos its his baby!!!
My point is this though
Tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of people have given money OUT OF THEIR POCKET to this project, because they believed Mr Walton when he announced that the aircraft would stay in this country, and the talks were of it flying again.
How utterly shameful is it, that the talk is now of him selling it to the Americans? Surely you do not condone that do you? Whats going to happen to our money?
Yes, we all want to see her fly, but more importantly WE ALL WANT TO SEE HER, in one way or another and that means in this country, even if its on the ground doing high-speed taxi runs.
And lastly, don't hide behind Mr Walton Damien when the going gets tough!!! If you are NOT his spokesman then SHUT UP, if you are SPEAK UP
By the way, I need an extension building to my factory, do you think the lottery could help, or maybe I should put ads in the aviation press pleading for the money eh??
Let 'em swing Baby!!
Swinging Monkey
The grob driver has hit the nail right on the head
It costs Mr Walton a lot of money 'cos its his baby!!!
My point is this though
Tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of people have given money OUT OF THEIR POCKET to this project, because they believed Mr Walton when he announced that the aircraft would stay in this country, and the talks were of it flying again.
How utterly shameful is it, that the talk is now of him selling it to the Americans? Surely you do not condone that do you? Whats going to happen to our money?
Yes, we all want to see her fly, but more importantly WE ALL WANT TO SEE HER, in one way or another and that means in this country, even if its on the ground doing high-speed taxi runs.
And lastly, don't hide behind Mr Walton Damien when the going gets tough!!! If you are NOT his spokesman then SHUT UP, if you are SPEAK UP
By the way, I need an extension building to my factory, do you think the lottery could help, or maybe I should put ads in the aviation press pleading for the money eh??
Let 'em swing Baby!!
Swinging Monkey
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I really don't get this.
You accuse David of wanting to make a fast buck. I have merely pointed out pouring hundreds of thousands of pounds of his own money into the aircraft isn't the act of someone wanting to make a fast buck. And then you reply "Well it's his aircraft"... well, duh. Did anybody ever say it wasn't?
I guess I can take it this is the nearest I'll get to an admission that the 'fast buck' accusation is nonsense.
Bits of 607 no doubt are being used on 558 - with CAA/BAe approval of course. There have been plenty of serviceable parts recovered from 607 (and other static examples), and these have gone on to be used on the runnable ones. I know we have fully serviceable PFCUs on 655 that have been put together (by the OEM) using multiple PFCUs taken from static Vulcans. 558 has had rather less need of such cannibalisation as David bought up a huge spares holding too (which goes so far as to include major airframe components e.g. a complete tail fin).
As for contacting TVOC with no reply - that is surprising. Did you send an email or actually speak to a human? While it's hardly excusable I doubt emails are treated with the same importance bearing in mind the amount of kids and spotters who must email them with Really Good Ideas [tm].
Monkey - no, I am not David's spokesman, never said I was. But if all you want is someone to type 'Hear hear' to your comments, you're in the wrong place. Construct straw men to further your argument if you wish, I shall ignore each one.
I too am interested as to what will happen to the money that has been donated (some of it, after all, came from me) though I rather suspect it's been used to pay the wages of the engineers working on the project for this last two years.
Busta - a more valid comparison would be with how hard it was to keep 558 flying when she was with the VDF in her last few years, with far fewer hangars full of spares and far fewer personnel. Don't think they missed any shows though, did they? I know it was hard - I remember there were regular intake cracks for instance, but do you really think TVOC would have taken things this far if they weren't confident they could keep her flying?
You accuse David of wanting to make a fast buck. I have merely pointed out pouring hundreds of thousands of pounds of his own money into the aircraft isn't the act of someone wanting to make a fast buck. And then you reply "Well it's his aircraft"... well, duh. Did anybody ever say it wasn't?
I guess I can take it this is the nearest I'll get to an admission that the 'fast buck' accusation is nonsense.
Bits of 607 no doubt are being used on 558 - with CAA/BAe approval of course. There have been plenty of serviceable parts recovered from 607 (and other static examples), and these have gone on to be used on the runnable ones. I know we have fully serviceable PFCUs on 655 that have been put together (by the OEM) using multiple PFCUs taken from static Vulcans. 558 has had rather less need of such cannibalisation as David bought up a huge spares holding too (which goes so far as to include major airframe components e.g. a complete tail fin).
As for contacting TVOC with no reply - that is surprising. Did you send an email or actually speak to a human? While it's hardly excusable I doubt emails are treated with the same importance bearing in mind the amount of kids and spotters who must email them with Really Good Ideas [tm].
Monkey - no, I am not David's spokesman, never said I was. But if all you want is someone to type 'Hear hear' to your comments, you're in the wrong place. Construct straw men to further your argument if you wish, I shall ignore each one.
I too am interested as to what will happen to the money that has been donated (some of it, after all, came from me) though I rather suspect it's been used to pay the wages of the engineers working on the project for this last two years.
Busta - a more valid comparison would be with how hard it was to keep 558 flying when she was with the VDF in her last few years, with far fewer hangars full of spares and far fewer personnel. Don't think they missed any shows though, did they? I know it was hard - I remember there were regular intake cracks for instance, but do you really think TVOC would have taken things this far if they weren't confident they could keep her flying?
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Damien,
Ok, using parts from other static Vulcan’s. Ye, I can go along with that. Of course they will all be checked for serviceability bla bla bla before they are used. I was just trying to highlight that fact the MOST of the Vulcan’s in this country are in a poor state of repair, and examples like 558, 655 and 426 should remain in this country, in working order pleasing the British public.
However, going back to funding the project. I firmly believe that Mr Walton, is trying to hold the British public to some form of ransom. If you give us money for the project, it might fly again… If you don’t, it will be sold to the highest bidder (which we all know would be the Americans). I just think it’s very wrong. You say it costs him money in lost revenue, but he must have known that when he bought her. And again, it’s his aircraft, and while I don’t object to people giving donations, they really shouldn’t have to. His toy… he pays for it… My toy… I’ll pay for it!
As for contacting TVOC. Ok, it was mainly by e-mail, BUT that’s not the point. I made the effort to do what they said. Contact us with queries, questions and suggestions… Nothing, no one has ever got back to me, and that’s a BAD thing. Even if I was just a spotter (which I’m not!), they need to have that contact with the outside world. Maybe if you see Mr Walton, you can put forward my suggestion of arranging for major airshow organisers to donate £1 from every ticket sold to go to the Vulcan in return for a reduced rate display. Or how about getting someone like ‘flypast’, or ‘today’s pilot’ to arrange a major fly in to Bruntingthorpe. £10 landing fees will go a long way if you get enough people. It would have to be a major event, but there’s no reason why it can’t happen. I think this is all about marketing…. It will take a lot more that asking readers of the aviation press to donate £1.
Ok, using parts from other static Vulcan’s. Ye, I can go along with that. Of course they will all be checked for serviceability bla bla bla before they are used. I was just trying to highlight that fact the MOST of the Vulcan’s in this country are in a poor state of repair, and examples like 558, 655 and 426 should remain in this country, in working order pleasing the British public.
However, going back to funding the project. I firmly believe that Mr Walton, is trying to hold the British public to some form of ransom. If you give us money for the project, it might fly again… If you don’t, it will be sold to the highest bidder (which we all know would be the Americans). I just think it’s very wrong. You say it costs him money in lost revenue, but he must have known that when he bought her. And again, it’s his aircraft, and while I don’t object to people giving donations, they really shouldn’t have to. His toy… he pays for it… My toy… I’ll pay for it!
As for contacting TVOC. Ok, it was mainly by e-mail, BUT that’s not the point. I made the effort to do what they said. Contact us with queries, questions and suggestions… Nothing, no one has ever got back to me, and that’s a BAD thing. Even if I was just a spotter (which I’m not!), they need to have that contact with the outside world. Maybe if you see Mr Walton, you can put forward my suggestion of arranging for major airshow organisers to donate £1 from every ticket sold to go to the Vulcan in return for a reduced rate display. Or how about getting someone like ‘flypast’, or ‘today’s pilot’ to arrange a major fly in to Bruntingthorpe. £10 landing fees will go a long way if you get enough people. It would have to be a major event, but there’s no reason why it can’t happen. I think this is all about marketing…. It will take a lot more that asking readers of the aviation press to donate £1.
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I agree, no response is a bad thing.
At 10 quid a pop we'd need 250,000 aircraft to fly in Brunty does hold open days, and the money goes not only to the upkeep of the BAH collection but also to 558. Sadly the locals are a right bunch of whinging nimbys and even running the Lightnings a handful of times a year gets them up in arms - a full-on airshow sadly isn't possible any more for this and other reasons (past shows did not make that much money and as the organisers of the Coventry and Biggin shows now know, a drop of rain ends up making the show cost you money to put on).
At 10 quid a pop we'd need 250,000 aircraft to fly in
Brunty does hold open days, and the money goes not only to the upkeep of the BAH collection but also to 558. Sadly the locals are a right bunch of whinging nimbys and even running the Lightnings a handful of times a year gets them up in arms - a full-on airshow sadly isn't possible any more for this and other reasons (past shows did not make that much money and as the organisers of the Coventry and Biggin shows now know, a drop of rain ends up making the show cost you money to put on).
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This is a disgrace, the lotto fund should be used to keep examples of fine British aviation flying! I know for a fact that this year the lotto commission will be using the money to help asylum seekers! ( know of a children's playgroup who was refused money and the reason was the funding of the asylum seekers...).
I am sure that if this money is used to bail the goverment out of a hole that they created Joe Public will soon lose interest in the whole game..
and very
I am sure that if this money is used to bail the goverment out of a hole that they created Joe Public will soon lose interest in the whole game..
and very
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ZH844,
Can’t disagree with you. Money from the lottery should be used “to keep examples of fine British aviation flying”. HOWEVER, it shouldn’t be used to finance private individuals plans. Maybe this is where the swinging monkeys ‘British Aviation heritage group’ could be formed. That way, the aircraft would belong to the public, or at least to a charity / organization, not Jo Bloggs who wants to blast about in a Vulcan or Lightning!
As for giving lottery money to asylum seekers
Can’t disagree with you. Money from the lottery should be used “to keep examples of fine British aviation flying”. HOWEVER, it shouldn’t be used to finance private individuals plans. Maybe this is where the swinging monkeys ‘British Aviation heritage group’ could be formed. That way, the aircraft would belong to the public, or at least to a charity / organization, not Jo Bloggs who wants to blast about in a Vulcan or Lightning!
As for giving lottery money to asylum seekers
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Vulcan Lottery Money
Damien,
'construct straw men to shout 'here here' hum, don't quite understand that but still.........
Listen, my comments about you being Mr Waltons spokesman were made following your comments 'poo pooing' every word on this forum that has been said against him. If you are not his spokeman, then you are going to great lengths to promote that opinion.
Anyway, that is not my point.
I am 100% behind getting her into the sky, although I do have a few reservations - remember, I flew these things for 8 years, so I do have just an 'incy wincy' bit of an idea of what I'm talking about. The problem is however this:
The aircraft is owned outright by an individual
That individual did NOT have to by her
That individual made it abundantly clear that his intention was TO FLY HER
That individual has made numerous appeals for money, spares blah
That individual has received a great deal of money from Joe Public
That individual is now saying (according to you, and you agree with him)
‘Listen chaps, its all costing a wad of cash, I’m going to flog it!’
Please Damien, explain the morale justification for that to me please.
ZH844, as for Asylum seekers getting lottery funds, nothing makes my blood boil more, but 2 wrongs do not make a right, and I equally believe that lottery funding should not be given to AN INDIVIDUAL, simply because he could use a bit more cash for his own PRIVATE ends. Sorry.
Nevertheless, I wish the project all the luck in the world, and desperately hope that the old girl stays in this country, where her benefactors can at least reap some reward for their valuable donations.
As for this British Aviation Heritage thing, anyone interested in seeing if we can't get something started? I'm happy to speak to my MP if you think there is any mileage in it. Let me know
Regards to all
The Swinging Monkey
Tighter on that rope Jonesy!
'construct straw men to shout 'here here' hum, don't quite understand that but still.........
Listen, my comments about you being Mr Waltons spokesman were made following your comments 'poo pooing' every word on this forum that has been said against him. If you are not his spokeman, then you are going to great lengths to promote that opinion.
Anyway, that is not my point.
I am 100% behind getting her into the sky, although I do have a few reservations - remember, I flew these things for 8 years, so I do have just an 'incy wincy' bit of an idea of what I'm talking about. The problem is however this:
The aircraft is owned outright by an individual
That individual did NOT have to by her
That individual made it abundantly clear that his intention was TO FLY HER
That individual has made numerous appeals for money, spares blah
That individual has received a great deal of money from Joe Public
That individual is now saying (according to you, and you agree with him)
‘Listen chaps, its all costing a wad of cash, I’m going to flog it!’
Please Damien, explain the morale justification for that to me please.
ZH844, as for Asylum seekers getting lottery funds, nothing makes my blood boil more, but 2 wrongs do not make a right, and I equally believe that lottery funding should not be given to AN INDIVIDUAL, simply because he could use a bit more cash for his own PRIVATE ends. Sorry.
Nevertheless, I wish the project all the luck in the world, and desperately hope that the old girl stays in this country, where her benefactors can at least reap some reward for their valuable donations.
As for this British Aviation Heritage thing, anyone interested in seeing if we can't get something started? I'm happy to speak to my MP if you think there is any mileage in it. Let me know
Regards to all
The Swinging Monkey
Tighter on that rope Jonesy!
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Yes, I've defended the man because the comments are on here were pretty atrocious - slinging all sorts of mud against somebody not here to defend themselves.
Justification to sell the aircraft? Because if he can't get enough money together to FLY THE AIRCRAFT then perhaps SOMEBODY ELSE COULD? Again, we all want to see it fly. If it cannot do so in David's ownership, I can't see anyone else in the UK managing it. I didn't see anybody else stepping up to buy her in 93 except scrap merchants. But if somebody in the US wants to pay for it... then why stop them? Why stop the aircraft flying? Face realities - if they'd got the lottery money then you'd be happily applauding their efforts and looking forward to seeing her fly. All those public donations have got them as far as knowing it IS technically feasible... unfortunately that's where the money has now run out.
How are they his PRIVATE ends when the intention is to fly the aircraft at PUBLIC events for the PUBLIC's enjoyment?
Justification to sell the aircraft? Because if he can't get enough money together to FLY THE AIRCRAFT then perhaps SOMEBODY ELSE COULD? Again, we all want to see it fly. If it cannot do so in David's ownership, I can't see anyone else in the UK managing it. I didn't see anybody else stepping up to buy her in 93 except scrap merchants. But if somebody in the US wants to pay for it... then why stop them? Why stop the aircraft flying? Face realities - if they'd got the lottery money then you'd be happily applauding their efforts and looking forward to seeing her fly. All those public donations have got them as far as knowing it IS technically feasible... unfortunately that's where the money has now run out.
How are they his PRIVATE ends when the intention is to fly the aircraft at PUBLIC events for the PUBLIC's enjoyment?
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Damien,
you are patently blind to my remarks over our money (yours, mine and thousands of others) being wasted on a private venture, that may well fizzel out if we don't cough up a bit more, but nevertheless, just two little points:
Firstly, Was the lottery going in 1993? I don't think so, so how was it ever going to be funded?
Secondly, did he intend to fly her at displays for free then?? I very much doubt it. Of course the public would have enjoyed seeing her fly, but do you honestly expect me to believe that he would do it for free or even at cost? Come come Damien, even I am not that silly, and I'm sure the majority of the British public arn't either.
As someone who has had a major involvement in one of this countys biggest airshows for several years, I know how much private aircraft charge to come to shows, and they are not cheap. But good luck to them, its their livelihood, and I for one see nothing wrong with making money - after all, we all do it! But my point, which you clearly fail to see, is that when things go wrong, or when the money runs out, why should the lottery bail them out? I for one don't think it should - sorry!
KEEP 558 IN ENGLAND, AT ALL COSTS!!! thats what I say
rEGARDS
The Swinging Monkey
'Winch me up Roberts!'
you are patently blind to my remarks over our money (yours, mine and thousands of others) being wasted on a private venture, that may well fizzel out if we don't cough up a bit more, but nevertheless, just two little points:
Firstly, Was the lottery going in 1993? I don't think so, so how was it ever going to be funded?
Secondly, did he intend to fly her at displays for free then?? I very much doubt it. Of course the public would have enjoyed seeing her fly, but do you honestly expect me to believe that he would do it for free or even at cost? Come come Damien, even I am not that silly, and I'm sure the majority of the British public arn't either.
As someone who has had a major involvement in one of this countys biggest airshows for several years, I know how much private aircraft charge to come to shows, and they are not cheap. But good luck to them, its their livelihood, and I for one see nothing wrong with making money - after all, we all do it! But my point, which you clearly fail to see, is that when things go wrong, or when the money runs out, why should the lottery bail them out? I for one don't think it should - sorry!
KEEP 558 IN ENGLAND, AT ALL COSTS!!! thats what I say
rEGARDS
The Swinging Monkey
'Winch me up Roberts!'
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You think those private aircraft make a profit out of airshow appearances, once all the maintenance needed to keep them in the air is taken into consideration? Blimey. Try speaking to somebody other than the Utterly Butterly team!
If David had wanted a profit from 558, he'd have cut her up and sold the bits to spotters in 1993.
If all you have to say is limited to casting aspersions on a chap who's done his very best to get this aircraft back in the sky and entertaining people, then you really don't have very much to say at all, do you?
If David had wanted a profit from 558, he'd have cut her up and sold the bits to spotters in 1993.
If all you have to say is limited to casting aspersions on a chap who's done his very best to get this aircraft back in the sky and entertaining people, then you really don't have very much to say at all, do you?
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Damien,
OK I give up
You just don't get it do you? You cannot see or even acknowledge other peoples views.
You completely refuse to discuss the points in question and prefer instead to berate people whose view are not 100% in line with yours. Never mind.
So, you win, I simply can't be ar**ed to waste any more of my valuable time talking to such a narrow-minded chap like you.
Best wishes
The Swinging Monkey
'Lets get out of here Smithers!'
OK I give up
You just don't get it do you? You cannot see or even acknowledge other peoples views.
You completely refuse to discuss the points in question and prefer instead to berate people whose view are not 100% in line with yours. Never mind.
So, you win, I simply can't be ar**ed to waste any more of my valuable time talking to such a narrow-minded chap like you.
Best wishes
The Swinging Monkey
'Lets get out of here Smithers!'
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Here here Monkey man… I’m with you all the way!
Unfortunately, it seems that Damien cant see past his own nose! Damien I think a lot of the comments you make are utter cr*p. They are my views there’s one area you’ll struggle to argue with! Sorry, but these private ventures do make money… That’s how they are about to run them as a business. Just look at them (not going to mention names), they must be making money if they re able to fly some of the aircraft that are now on the display circuit…. More hunters that the RAF has Tornado’s (Well, serviceable ones anyway!). And it’s not only hunters… you don’t need me to list them all to you, but there’s no shortage of ex military hardware on the display circuit these days. Would be nice if a Vulcan could join them. At the end of the day, your good friend Mr Walton must have plenty of money (after all, he’s a farmer isn’t he!!!?) – Sorry,. Little dig there! Let him pay for it out of his own pocket.
Unfortunately, it seems that Damien cant see past his own nose! Damien I think a lot of the comments you make are utter cr*p. They are my views there’s one area you’ll struggle to argue with! Sorry, but these private ventures do make money… That’s how they are about to run them as a business. Just look at them (not going to mention names), they must be making money if they re able to fly some of the aircraft that are now on the display circuit…. More hunters that the RAF has Tornado’s (Well, serviceable ones anyway!). And it’s not only hunters… you don’t need me to list them all to you, but there’s no shortage of ex military hardware on the display circuit these days. Would be nice if a Vulcan could join them. At the end of the day, your good friend Mr Walton must have plenty of money (after all, he’s a farmer isn’t he!!!?) – Sorry,. Little dig there! Let him pay for it out of his own pocket.
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Oooh... it must be so annoying for your opinions, based on mad rumours and hearsay, to be challenged by somebody who has a passing acquaintance with some of those annoying fact things.
You really think 558 would be funded by airshow fees alone, and still make a handsome profit on top, better than the hundreds of thousands a pounds a year David is losing by not having all of the hangar available for storage purposes? Airshow fees are a nice addition but no way do they, on their own, make a viable economic proposition to operate an ex-mil jet. Look at how many Hunters Delta operate, for instance, and look at how many airshow appearances are carried out by them. I have a rough idea what they charge, and do you think that amount (less fuel) multiplied by appearances really pays for their operation? You must be having a laugh - either that or this is really, really crap banter.
You really think 558 would be funded by airshow fees alone, and still make a handsome profit on top, better than the hundreds of thousands a pounds a year David is losing by not having all of the hangar available for storage purposes? Airshow fees are a nice addition but no way do they, on their own, make a viable economic proposition to operate an ex-mil jet. Look at how many Hunters Delta operate, for instance, and look at how many airshow appearances are carried out by them. I have a rough idea what they charge, and do you think that amount (less fuel) multiplied by appearances really pays for their operation? You must be having a laugh - either that or this is really, really crap banter.
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Poor Mr Walton loosing all that money… my hear bleeds for the guy….. Get him to plant a few more spuds!
He needs to decide what he wants to do… Go for it…. If he wants to store things in his hangar, sell her. It’s his choice. Funny thing that is that that’s exactly what hangars are for… storing things…. Only it’s normally aircraft that they store, not aluminium cans! (and damien, dont come back telling me that it's not cans he stores... that was just an example!)
Good job you’re here Damien, or Mr Walton would be taking a right battering wouldn’t he! Still, you’re doing a good job in his defence! Shame Mr W cant join in though isn’t it… after all, that would stop all these rumours you keep talking about wouldn’t it!
He needs to decide what he wants to do… Go for it…. If he wants to store things in his hangar, sell her. It’s his choice. Funny thing that is that that’s exactly what hangars are for… storing things…. Only it’s normally aircraft that they store, not aluminium cans! (and damien, dont come back telling me that it's not cans he stores... that was just an example!)
Good job you’re here Damien, or Mr Walton would be taking a right battering wouldn’t he! Still, you’re doing a good job in his defence! Shame Mr W cant join in though isn’t it… after all, that would stop all these rumours you keep talking about wouldn’t it!
Join Date: Jun 2001
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I'll take that as an admission you haven't a clue about running costs of ex-mil jets on the civvy register - why not just say that instead of banging on with your tiresome anti-farmer jibes.
As you aren't interested in the realities of the situation I see no further point in taking part in this 'discussion'. Have fun.
As you aren't interested in the realities of the situation I see no further point in taking part in this 'discussion'. Have fun.
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Damien,
I know I said I wouldn't waste any more time on you, but I am compelled to keep up this banter against your nonesence
I don't know the grob drivers background, but I can tell you that I DO KNOW how much it costs to keep these dear old birds flying, and I would even agree with you that it IS NOT a cheap game, but...and it is a very BIG BUT.....the charges made for appearances at airshows are even bigger. I know, believe me!
How on earth do all of these warbird owners such as OFMC et al turn it into a thriving business?? Where does their money come from?? maybe they have won the lottery!
You keep harping on that keeping 558 is costing Mr walton 100's of thousands of pounds a year. Why is it? and if it is, where is he getting all of his money from? Why isn't his accountant saying 'hey Dave, that bloody tin triangle is costing you a mint, best got shot'??
The facts are simple, but I will inform you of them once again.
Dave walton has got and has received, from the public, a great deal of money. It is grossly unfair and immoral of him to now hold the British public to ransom by saying that unless they cough up some more, the bird goes to the States.
That Damien is disgraceful and shameful (assuming it is the truth of course)
You keep telling us not to listen to mad rumours, and yet looking back, you appear to have been defending Mr walton over these 'mad rumours' - me thinks they are not so mad after all maybe
Sorry Damien, I'm sure your a nice guy, with your heart in the right place. But do try to look at the argument from the other side of the fence. Perhaps then you will see why many of us, aviators or not, are asking difficult questions about 558.
Keep Swinging damien.
Regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Jefferson, pass me another Scotch old boy'
I know I said I wouldn't waste any more time on you, but I am compelled to keep up this banter against your nonesence
I don't know the grob drivers background, but I can tell you that I DO KNOW how much it costs to keep these dear old birds flying, and I would even agree with you that it IS NOT a cheap game, but...and it is a very BIG BUT.....the charges made for appearances at airshows are even bigger. I know, believe me!
How on earth do all of these warbird owners such as OFMC et al turn it into a thriving business?? Where does their money come from?? maybe they have won the lottery!
You keep harping on that keeping 558 is costing Mr walton 100's of thousands of pounds a year. Why is it? and if it is, where is he getting all of his money from? Why isn't his accountant saying 'hey Dave, that bloody tin triangle is costing you a mint, best got shot'??
The facts are simple, but I will inform you of them once again.
Dave walton has got and has received, from the public, a great deal of money. It is grossly unfair and immoral of him to now hold the British public to ransom by saying that unless they cough up some more, the bird goes to the States.
That Damien is disgraceful and shameful (assuming it is the truth of course)
You keep telling us not to listen to mad rumours, and yet looking back, you appear to have been defending Mr walton over these 'mad rumours' - me thinks they are not so mad after all maybe
Sorry Damien, I'm sure your a nice guy, with your heart in the right place. But do try to look at the argument from the other side of the fence. Perhaps then you will see why many of us, aviators or not, are asking difficult questions about 558.
Keep Swinging damien.
Regards
The Swinging Monkey
'Jefferson, pass me another Scotch old boy'