Vulcan to the Sky, The End? (Merged)
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Ive emailed HLF adding my name to the list and they wrote back saying that they wont be supporting the project any further as they have already donated £2M+ to the trust
At least now they only feel it unlikely!!
Winco,
Why did you feel the need to leap so valiantly to The Swinging Monkey's aid there? Is it because flipflopchap's belief differ from yourself and The Monkey's? As I see it, you're being a little hypocritical. Either you condemn flipflopmans 'abusive comments' and remain beyond reproach yourself, or you lower yourself to his despicable level
and engage in insults yourself. You can't really have it both ways old chap.Come on fellas, let's at least have one last crack of the whip, and get behind this. The company producing the commemorative vino for the project, have opened a new site, here which is a regular wine store, but is giving 100% of the profits to the Vulcan project. So you can donate, without really donating.
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Rocket,
It's not a case of leaping to anyones defence - I'm sure that the monkey and all of the others can stand up for themselves. But clearly, flipflop feels it necessary to make comments that are unwarranted IMHO simply because he cannot see other peoples point of view.
Listen, the efforts of Tim and others are extremely commendable, and to a point I admire them. I still very much hope that it all comes good, but I think that they have become blinkered and obsessed with this figure of 'just another quarter of a million' The fact is that it needs a great deal more than a quarter of a million pounds even to keep it going, and that's from TVOC figures, FI and others, including Pleming.
Tim says that Pleming 'seems confident that the rest of the money can be found' well that is great and I am delighted. But why dosen't he tell us where it's coming from ?
Why are their such serious doubts at Brunters, and why have people been made redundant if Pleming is confident? It doen't make sense I'm afraid.
Pleming is confident is he? Why? Does he know something that he isn't letting on to us ? Is he going to come good at the 12th hour with something he's got up his sleeve?
These are the problems that I have with this project, this total inability to tell us the truth about things ie the exact amount(s) needed, and by what date(s) etc.
I'm sorry, but until someone like Pleming has the courage to come onto a website like this or go public with the FACTS, then I am not going to throw any more money into this bottomless money pit, and if that offends others, then I shall refrain from posting on this topic again.
The Winco
It's not a case of leaping to anyones defence - I'm sure that the monkey and all of the others can stand up for themselves. But clearly, flipflop feels it necessary to make comments that are unwarranted IMHO simply because he cannot see other peoples point of view.
Listen, the efforts of Tim and others are extremely commendable, and to a point I admire them. I still very much hope that it all comes good, but I think that they have become blinkered and obsessed with this figure of 'just another quarter of a million' The fact is that it needs a great deal more than a quarter of a million pounds even to keep it going, and that's from TVOC figures, FI and others, including Pleming.
Tim says that Pleming 'seems confident that the rest of the money can be found' well that is great and I am delighted. But why dosen't he tell us where it's coming from ?
Why are their such serious doubts at Brunters, and why have people been made redundant if Pleming is confident? It doen't make sense I'm afraid.
Pleming is confident is he? Why? Does he know something that he isn't letting on to us ? Is he going to come good at the 12th hour with something he's got up his sleeve?
These are the problems that I have with this project, this total inability to tell us the truth about things ie the exact amount(s) needed, and by what date(s) etc.
I'm sorry, but until someone like Pleming has the courage to come onto a website like this or go public with the FACTS, then I am not going to throw any more money into this bottomless money pit, and if that offends others, then I shall refrain from posting on this topic again.
The Winco
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Like it or lump it Winco is right.
Even FI's figures (she is the project director) are saying that £250k just gets it out the hangar and it needs £1m in pledges to continue. Reallistically where is that going to appear from ?
Its a case now of Sh*t or get off the pot for the whole project sadly. If they can raise the £250k but not the rest, that money is best spent on preservation that gives the project a hope of resurrection. If they roll it out with £250k but no more to follow where will the money come from to mothball it professionally ?
I am not an engineer and doubtless others will know the ins and outs, but does anyone know what would need to be done to protect the project properly if that had to be done ? What kind of money are we talking for the engineering element (forget the rent bill for now) ?
If the trust became insolvent, which is a real prospect, I would be interested to know (wearing my lawyers hat) what claims or liens the Waltons might have over the aircraft for rent ? They may end up acquiring it back in lieu of rent if appropriate legal safeguards are not currently in place, a worrying thought or not ?
Even FI's figures (she is the project director) are saying that £250k just gets it out the hangar and it needs £1m in pledges to continue. Reallistically where is that going to appear from ?
Its a case now of Sh*t or get off the pot for the whole project sadly. If they can raise the £250k but not the rest, that money is best spent on preservation that gives the project a hope of resurrection. If they roll it out with £250k but no more to follow where will the money come from to mothball it professionally ?
I am not an engineer and doubtless others will know the ins and outs, but does anyone know what would need to be done to protect the project properly if that had to be done ? What kind of money are we talking for the engineering element (forget the rent bill for now) ?
If the trust became insolvent, which is a real prospect, I would be interested to know (wearing my lawyers hat) what claims or liens the Waltons might have over the aircraft for rent ? They may end up acquiring it back in lieu of rent if appropriate legal safeguards are not currently in place, a worrying thought or not ?
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Having observed, as a fence sitter, it is clear that something is lacking.
The management team wish you to donate your hard earned dosh to keep the project going.
It would appear that they cannot afford advertising on the telly.
Lots of debate from potential supporters.
No comment from the people wanting the money (except via proxy).
Given that PPrune contributers are probably a bl**dy good source of revenue, maybe it would be a good place for them to come and speak to ther Customers?
Thus reassuring the pro-£250k and maybe winning over the anti-£250k.
Or is it a case of "let them eat cake"?
Just a little thought
The management team wish you to donate your hard earned dosh to keep the project going.
It would appear that they cannot afford advertising on the telly.
Lots of debate from potential supporters.
No comment from the people wanting the money (except via proxy).
Given that PPrune contributers are probably a bl**dy good source of revenue, maybe it would be a good place for them to come and speak to ther Customers?
Thus reassuring the pro-£250k and maybe winning over the anti-£250k.
Or is it a case of "let them eat cake"?
Just a little thought
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andrewmcharlton,
Felicity Irwin is the Campaign Director and a Trustee, not, as she would give the impression, the Project Director.
Seems to me that she's not really doing a very good job at the moment, and some might say she hasn't done a very good job full stop. She appears to have made many enemies and few friends with her "treat the public like mushrooms" attitude. There are very well grounded rumours doing the rounds that the hangarage issue could have been dealt with a long time ago, but allegedly the Waltons will not even discuss this while Ms Irwin has anything to do with the project.
The fact that she is currently in France on a no doubt relaxing holiday, while the rest of the project and the general public run around like headless chickens trying to raise awareness and sponsorship, HER JOB!!!, says a lot about her, and her role as the campaign manager.
I think this project could be doing much better with a bit of a reshuffle personally.
Felicity Irwin is the Campaign Director and a Trustee, not, as she would give the impression, the Project Director.
Seems to me that she's not really doing a very good job at the moment, and some might say she hasn't done a very good job full stop. She appears to have made many enemies and few friends with her "treat the public like mushrooms" attitude. There are very well grounded rumours doing the rounds that the hangarage issue could have been dealt with a long time ago, but allegedly the Waltons will not even discuss this while Ms Irwin has anything to do with the project.
The fact that she is currently in France on a no doubt relaxing holiday, while the rest of the project and the general public run around like headless chickens trying to raise awareness and sponsorship, HER JOB!!!, says a lot about her, and her role as the campaign manager.
I think this project could be doing much better with a bit of a reshuffle personally.
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Hi guys,
Sorry to come in late on this. I am not going to argue the rights or wrongs of pumping more money into the project, however I would love to see 558 in the sky again.
The VTS site is obviously asking for pledges and relate this to the 2000 members pledging £558.00 each to raise this money.
Way back in 93 there were 250,000 + signatures raised in an attempt to keep this bird in the RAF as a Falklands memorial flight.
I know this because I was collecting them for the proposed house of commons debate which had been organised on the day we carted the Thunderball model around parliament square. Raymond Baxter was with us at the time and many Vulcan fans will have seen the videos of this.
Obviously most of you will know the outcome that our, then Minister for Defence , Malcolm Rifkind pulled the rug from under our feet and declared that 558 had been sold to David Walton.
Getting to the pojnt of this post. The VTS say they have 2000 members. I find it hard to believe that more people are not members. The above post #236 by iank suggests a core following of 22000 members. If this is so, then the sums must surely add up to only £54.00 per supporter and not £558.00.
£54.00 is not a vast amount to see the £1.2M needed to ensure the project continues to completion. It is a figure that most aviation enthusists could donate by a pledge to the VTS site.
As for any funds required for the continued running costs, I again can only tell you of my involvement during the 1992/93 period.
A small group, including myself, and some (lets just say important people from BAe, Rolls Royce and Dowty), and some financial wizards from the private sector accounting world, had a meeting at Bomber High Command in High Wycombe. Lots of Air Marshalls and government MOD accountancy people were on the other side of the table, including Johnathan Aitken who was, I believe at the time in the same office as Malcolm Rifkind.
The agenda was obviously a major attempt at keeping 558 within the RAF. BAe offering at that time to complete the Major service required for the Vulcan, "at no profit", were the words used. Also at that time, the airshow organisers had in part, agreed to levy an amount per person at any airshow that the Vulcan appeared at. Figures of 50p to £1.00 being in discussion. This would have meant that at Mildenhall (2 day show) 250,000 people on the Saturday and 300,000 on the Sunday, a good £0.5M would have been raised from one show. Add to this all the other shows, RIAT, Finningley etc. The Vulcan operating costs would have been covered easily for the 10 to 15 years life, the major service would have provided. Add to this a North American airshow tour and who knows what would have happened.
Anyway, sorry to digress.
Lets forget about the £250K that seems to be a Red Herring and concentrate on the £1.2M needed for full completion, which I might add would only become payable by the people who pledge it, if the full amount of £1.2M pledges are reached.
Where do we find the other 20,000 supporters than iank mentions in his post, so we are not reliant on the 2000 that the VTS have as Club members.
Thanks for reading this.
Nigel
Sorry to come in late on this. I am not going to argue the rights or wrongs of pumping more money into the project, however I would love to see 558 in the sky again.
The VTS site is obviously asking for pledges and relate this to the 2000 members pledging £558.00 each to raise this money.
Way back in 93 there were 250,000 + signatures raised in an attempt to keep this bird in the RAF as a Falklands memorial flight.
I know this because I was collecting them for the proposed house of commons debate which had been organised on the day we carted the Thunderball model around parliament square. Raymond Baxter was with us at the time and many Vulcan fans will have seen the videos of this.
Obviously most of you will know the outcome that our, then Minister for Defence , Malcolm Rifkind pulled the rug from under our feet and declared that 558 had been sold to David Walton.
Getting to the pojnt of this post. The VTS say they have 2000 members. I find it hard to believe that more people are not members. The above post #236 by iank suggests a core following of 22000 members. If this is so, then the sums must surely add up to only £54.00 per supporter and not £558.00.
£54.00 is not a vast amount to see the £1.2M needed to ensure the project continues to completion. It is a figure that most aviation enthusists could donate by a pledge to the VTS site.
As for any funds required for the continued running costs, I again can only tell you of my involvement during the 1992/93 period.
A small group, including myself, and some (lets just say important people from BAe, Rolls Royce and Dowty), and some financial wizards from the private sector accounting world, had a meeting at Bomber High Command in High Wycombe. Lots of Air Marshalls and government MOD accountancy people were on the other side of the table, including Johnathan Aitken who was, I believe at the time in the same office as Malcolm Rifkind.
The agenda was obviously a major attempt at keeping 558 within the RAF. BAe offering at that time to complete the Major service required for the Vulcan, "at no profit", were the words used. Also at that time, the airshow organisers had in part, agreed to levy an amount per person at any airshow that the Vulcan appeared at. Figures of 50p to £1.00 being in discussion. This would have meant that at Mildenhall (2 day show) 250,000 people on the Saturday and 300,000 on the Sunday, a good £0.5M would have been raised from one show. Add to this all the other shows, RIAT, Finningley etc. The Vulcan operating costs would have been covered easily for the 10 to 15 years life, the major service would have provided. Add to this a North American airshow tour and who knows what would have happened.
Anyway, sorry to digress.
Lets forget about the £250K that seems to be a Red Herring and concentrate on the £1.2M needed for full completion, which I might add would only become payable by the people who pledge it, if the full amount of £1.2M pledges are reached.
Where do we find the other 20,000 supporters than iank mentions in his post, so we are not reliant on the 2000 that the VTS have as Club members.
Thanks for reading this.
Nigel
The simple facts were that the fast-jet centric RAF of the time had absolutely no intererest in allowing a big bomber to continue to fly.
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Originally Posted by Legin558
Hi guys,
Lets forget about the £250K that seems to be a Red Herring
Nigel
Lets forget about the £250K that seems to be a Red Herring
Nigel
Let's not forget about it eh? Otherwise you'll be arguing about nothing in roughly two week's time...
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Tim,
Your optomism is admired, but if there is such a battle to raise this £250k, where on earth will the remainder come from that even Felicity says is needed to move forward.
Where did the Dr think the rest was going to come from ?
There seems to be no pending potential sponsor with pen hovering , although maybe they will surprise us all, so I am concerned that if they raise the cash against the odds, we just end up stuck for money to proceed and then how do we protect and preserve the airframe for the future ?
Your optomism is admired, but if there is such a battle to raise this £250k, where on earth will the remainder come from that even Felicity says is needed to move forward.
Where did the Dr think the rest was going to come from ?
There seems to be no pending potential sponsor with pen hovering , although maybe they will surprise us all, so I am concerned that if they raise the cash against the odds, we just end up stuck for money to proceed and then how do we protect and preserve the airframe for the future ?
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I remember a Bombing Comp presentation day where the then CinC STC stood in the centre of the cream of the Vulcan Force and effectively said that he couldn't wait to get rid of the fleet. Went down like a lead balloon, as you can imagine. Filled us full of deep joy...
[Beags, that was the time when the Scampton Sqns got together as a wing to beat the pants off Waddo - remember? Inter-Sqn cooperation the likes of which had not been seen before or since!]
[Beags, that was the time when the Scampton Sqns got together as a wing to beat the pants off Waddo - remember? Inter-Sqn cooperation the likes of which had not been seen before or since!]
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Re post #412: I too queried the 20,000 figure on the VTTS forums in a similar style of equation - having been a '558 supporter since 1993 and a member of the club, I was only aware of 2000 club members.
However, the answer given on the forum was that 20,000 are known to the Trust as 'Friends' i.e. they have expressed interest or a donation to the VTSTrust by name (as opposed to just throwing money in a collecting tin). I would imagine therefore that Trust will have contacted them to ask for more money or are hoping that the national publicity campaign and the website campaign are keeping those 20000 informed!
My only personal reservation (from having run raffles/draws in the past to accumulate names for mailshots) is that a percentage of the 20,000 might be names that were pestered into buying raffle tickets by colleagues or family members - in which case they may have no desire to give further money. The sum that gives a result of £54 per head falls apart very quickly in those circumstances!
I tend to agree with some of the other folk 'here' - the project will be saved by either a change of heart by the HLF, or by the diehard supporters 'hocking' themselves to come up with pledges to the Club. In the latter case, then I think the Trust would have to consider whether it has performed sufficiently well over the last 12 months or whether it needs to involve 'new blood' for which several people have nominations I'm sure! I think at that point, some of the commercial funding that has been allegedly 'hiding in the wings' might come to the fore to see the test program financed etcetera.
In the meantime - Rollout is on for Aug 31st (I've had my invite), there's an open day at Bruntingthorpe on Sunday 27th August (bank holiday weekend so no excuse) where I'm sure the Club will be happy to take money off you for donations/pledges and you'll be able to see the object of so many peoples passion - the Vulcan that is!
However, the answer given on the forum was that 20,000 are known to the Trust as 'Friends' i.e. they have expressed interest or a donation to the VTSTrust by name (as opposed to just throwing money in a collecting tin). I would imagine therefore that Trust will have contacted them to ask for more money
or are hoping that the national publicity campaign and the website campaign are keeping those 20000 informed! My only personal reservation (from having run raffles/draws in the past to accumulate names for mailshots) is that a percentage of the 20,000 might be names that were pestered into buying raffle tickets by colleagues or family members - in which case they may have no desire to give further money. The sum that gives a result of £54 per head falls apart very quickly in those circumstances!
I tend to agree with some of the other folk 'here' - the project will be saved by either a change of heart by the HLF, or by the diehard supporters 'hocking' themselves to come up with pledges to the Club. In the latter case, then I think the Trust would have to consider whether it has performed sufficiently well over the last 12 months or whether it needs to involve 'new blood' for which several people have nominations I'm sure! I think at that point, some of the commercial funding that has been allegedly 'hiding in the wings' might come to the fore to see the test program financed etcetera.
In the meantime - Rollout is on for Aug 31st (I've had my invite), there's an open day at Bruntingthorpe on Sunday 27th August (bank holiday weekend so no excuse) where I'm sure the Club will be happy to take money off you for donations/pledges and you'll be able to see the object of so many peoples passion - the Vulcan that is!
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Tim,
Please don't take this as an offence in any way, but you have made it abundantly clear on this forum that you know Pleming on a level that the rest of us don't. Therefore may I ask you to put a few questions to him on our behalf?
1. Please ask him to consider coming onto this forum (or through yourself) and give it to us all 'straight from the horses mouth'?
2. If he declines, would you please ask him why not?
3. Please express the deep and serious concern amongst PPrune members at his lack of comments on the problem?
4. Will you ask him to make a statement to the aviation world, stating EXACTLY where the project stands, what EXACTLY is needed and WHEN it is needed by?
5. Please ask him to explain why he is so confident that the rest of the money will be forthcoming. It may give us some encouraqgement to pledge more money.
6. Finally, will you explain to him that very many people like myself WILL NO LONGER give more money to this project until we get some answers to the position of exactly where this project is at, and exactly what is happening?
I don't believe the HLF will entertain any more donations, and if the project is to continue, then it will be down to continued donations from the public. Pleming MUST be made aware of the concern amongst avaition supporters and he must go public on what is happening, if this project is to be saved. Time is running out, and with only a couple of weeks left, it's time for some serious pubilcity for the head of this project.
"Come on Robert, please tell us what is going on, please"
The Winco
Please don't take this as an offence in any way, but you have made it abundantly clear on this forum that you know Pleming on a level that the rest of us don't. Therefore may I ask you to put a few questions to him on our behalf?
1. Please ask him to consider coming onto this forum (or through yourself) and give it to us all 'straight from the horses mouth'?
2. If he declines, would you please ask him why not?
3. Please express the deep and serious concern amongst PPrune members at his lack of comments on the problem?
4. Will you ask him to make a statement to the aviation world, stating EXACTLY where the project stands, what EXACTLY is needed and WHEN it is needed by?
5. Please ask him to explain why he is so confident that the rest of the money will be forthcoming. It may give us some encouraqgement to pledge more money.
6. Finally, will you explain to him that very many people like myself WILL NO LONGER give more money to this project until we get some answers to the position of exactly where this project is at, and exactly what is happening?
I don't believe the HLF will entertain any more donations, and if the project is to continue, then it will be down to continued donations from the public. Pleming MUST be made aware of the concern amongst avaition supporters and he must go public on what is happening, if this project is to be saved. Time is running out, and with only a couple of weeks left, it's time for some serious pubilcity for the head of this project.
"Come on Robert, please tell us what is going on, please"
The Winco
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I don't know Pleming at all. I'm merely basing my comments on the information that he's given me. He's told me very little that we didn't already know, and to be fair there isn't much more that we do need to know. All of these figures that are being thrown-about are found on the web sites, and the figures are correct. They refer to different stages of the project and so a different figure is applicable to different points on the project calendar. Naturally, he might be giving me his own "spin" just like anybody else, but whatever his position and the true situation, he's very clear that they will wrap-up the project at the end of this month without the 250k. That's the only "hard fact" that has come out of all this and so I just keep trying to remind everyone that it's counter-productive to be continually going-off on tangents or looking at the wider funding picture right now. It's pointless to be arguing about whether the project needs maybe another million to reach the flight stage, when there will be no project in 2-3 weeks, without the 250k.
I've never disputed that the project will need more cash to get the aircraft into the air, or that the whole, sorry programme has been a farce right from the very start. Without investigating the whole project from the very beginning, you can't reach any real conclusions, and right now there's little point in even trying to, as there will be nothing to investigate unless some money is found very soon.
Ultimately, I think the future of the project rests squarely with the HLF. It is they and only they who can provide the necessary cash to get the aircraft to flight status, no matter what the required amount may be. They have the means to save the project and regardless of their guarded responses so far, they can give projects additional funding if they see fit. Likewise, as the biggest "stakeholder" in the project, it is the HLF who ought to be asking the fundamental questions as to how well (or badly) the project has been managed. No matter how you look at things, it is the HLF that we need. Without their support the project is dead - I don't think there's any doubt about that.
I've never disputed that the project will need more cash to get the aircraft into the air, or that the whole, sorry programme has been a farce right from the very start. Without investigating the whole project from the very beginning, you can't reach any real conclusions, and right now there's little point in even trying to, as there will be nothing to investigate unless some money is found very soon.
Ultimately, I think the future of the project rests squarely with the HLF. It is they and only they who can provide the necessary cash to get the aircraft to flight status, no matter what the required amount may be. They have the means to save the project and regardless of their guarded responses so far, they can give projects additional funding if they see fit. Likewise, as the biggest "stakeholder" in the project, it is the HLF who ought to be asking the fundamental questions as to how well (or badly) the project has been managed. No matter how you look at things, it is the HLF that we need. Without their support the project is dead - I don't think there's any doubt about that.
Last edited by Tim McLelland; 12th Aug 2006 at 20:02.
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Tim,
This is my whole point Sir, there IS a lot more that we need to know! We need to know facts from the main man, not a bunch of figures from this web site, another set of figures from FI, another set from someone else. We need to know facts!
If, as you now claim, you don't know Pleming at all, why are you feeding us all this info that you claim he is telling you? You have certainly given me the impression that you are resonably close to him (indeed you are the person I know who has spoken to him or got a reply from him) hence why I posted a series of questions for you to ask him.
Forget about the HLF, I don't think that will happen. If this project is to be saved, then it is down to us all to 'cough up' a little bit more, but with Pleming appearing to have gone 'deep and silent' I'm not optomistic, are you?
The Winco
This is my whole point Sir, there IS a lot more that we need to know! We need to know facts from the main man, not a bunch of figures from this web site, another set of figures from FI, another set from someone else. We need to know facts!
If, as you now claim, you don't know Pleming at all, why are you feeding us all this info that you claim he is telling you? You have certainly given me the impression that you are resonably close to him (indeed you are the person I know who has spoken to him or got a reply from him) hence why I posted a series of questions for you to ask him.
Forget about the HLF, I don't think that will happen. If this project is to be saved, then it is down to us all to 'cough up' a little bit more, but with Pleming appearing to have gone 'deep and silent' I'm not optomistic, are you?
The Winco
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Hey Tim,
Just what is the relationship between you and Dr P?
I have read through this forum and at every opportunity, you have defended him and portrayed him as a nice guy. You have made comments that certainly suggest that you and he are on 'talking terms' and, put bluntly, I have almost regarded you as his spokesman! He even tells you that he's confident of raising the extra money needed (something I haven't heard from any other source. And now you tell us that you don't know him at all!
Come on Tim, what is going on? Do you know him or not?
Anyway, you obviously seem to have an 'in' with him, so will you be putting 'The Winco's' questions to him or not?
Kind regards
TSM
Just what is the relationship between you and Dr P?
I have read through this forum and at every opportunity, you have defended him and portrayed him as a nice guy. You have made comments that certainly suggest that you and he are on 'talking terms' and, put bluntly, I have almost regarded you as his spokesman! He even tells you that he's confident of raising the extra money needed (something I haven't heard from any other source. And now you tell us that you don't know him at all!
Come on Tim, what is going on? Do you know him or not?
Anyway, you obviously seem to have an 'in' with him, so will you be putting 'The Winco's' questions to him or not?
Kind regards
TSM
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This is hard work isn't it? I'm repeating myself yet again but here goes:-
I don't know Pleming at all. I have merely exchanged correspondence with him. The precise status of the project is anybody's guess, but the various figures that are being discussed here are, of course, all correct, and you can find them all on the Vulcan site/s. So there's no reason to continually question this point - even Felcity Irwin has evidently repeated the overall figures for the programme yet again.
The fundemental point is that Pleming says quite specifically that 250k is needed by the end of this month, or else the project ends - it's that simple. I don't know whether TVOC can or will raise the cash that is needed after this point but as I keep on saying, it doesn't matter does it? There will be no point in raising any cash if the project is closed-down in two-three weeks.
If you think the HLF is a non starter then fine, that's your view, but make no mistake, it is the only potential way to save this project in my (and other people's) opinion. The HLF can save the project easily, if TVOC (with our support) can convince them to do so. If we decide not to even try, or spend the next two weeks endlessly arguing about the wider programme, then it will be too late in any case.
As for Dr Pleming, he hasn't gone into hiding - he's in hospital.
Hope that's as clear as I can be?
I don't know Pleming at all. I have merely exchanged correspondence with him. The precise status of the project is anybody's guess, but the various figures that are being discussed here are, of course, all correct, and you can find them all on the Vulcan site/s. So there's no reason to continually question this point - even Felcity Irwin has evidently repeated the overall figures for the programme yet again.
The fundemental point is that Pleming says quite specifically that 250k is needed by the end of this month, or else the project ends - it's that simple. I don't know whether TVOC can or will raise the cash that is needed after this point but as I keep on saying, it doesn't matter does it? There will be no point in raising any cash if the project is closed-down in two-three weeks.
If you think the HLF is a non starter then fine, that's your view, but make no mistake, it is the only potential way to save this project in my (and other people's) opinion. The HLF can save the project easily, if TVOC (with our support) can convince them to do so. If we decide not to even try, or spend the next two weeks endlessly arguing about the wider programme, then it will be too late in any case.
As for Dr Pleming, he hasn't gone into hiding - he's in hospital.
Hope that's as clear as I can be?
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isn't it as simple as the project actually needs £1m pledged or it folds ?
Thats from FI herself.
Finding £250k without the rest is like going swimming in 6ft of water when you're 5'11", its going to end in tears.
Thats from FI herself.
Finding £250k without the rest is like going swimming in 6ft of water when you're 5'11", its going to end in tears.