Did You Fly The Vulcan?? (Merged)
First post, may as well be a good one
been reading these posts while bored at work, and after reading at least 37 pages of this great thread about the vulcan, pledged £100 to XH558 to get the old girl flying again.
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Although I didn't fly Vulcans I remember this............
In the late '50s/early '60s my mates and I used to watch the Farnborough Air Show standing on top of a disused wriggly tin stand (used in the Victorian era for the Aldershot Show) at the Laffan Plain end of the runway in the days when just about every aircraft at the Show was purely British and leading the World in cutting edge technology and design.
On this occasion I remember seeing and hearing (!) Roly Falk open up the Vulcan at the black sheds end, barrelling down the runway, hauling the thing vertical on takeoff up onto its' back and rolling off the top and disappearing the fix on full welly - what a sight!!! Whooooooooaaagh!
Incidentally, the prototype Victor (flown by the test pilot whose name was Blackburn I think) emulated the Vulcan's dynamic takeoff, went vertical, rolled and chased after it!!
Bloody brilliant!! The tin shack virtually shook itself to bits - but we lived to tell the tale!
Incidentally, Roly Falk used to fly solo in the Vulcan whilst wearing a suit and tie!!
Great thread Beags.......you couldn't make this stuff up.......
On this occasion I remember seeing and hearing (!) Roly Falk open up the Vulcan at the black sheds end, barrelling down the runway, hauling the thing vertical on takeoff up onto its' back and rolling off the top and disappearing the fix on full welly - what a sight!!! Whooooooooaaagh!
Incidentally, the prototype Victor (flown by the test pilot whose name was Blackburn I think) emulated the Vulcan's dynamic takeoff, went vertical, rolled and chased after it!!
Bloody brilliant!! The tin shack virtually shook itself to bits - but we lived to tell the tale!
Incidentally, Roly Falk used to fly solo in the Vulcan whilst wearing a suit and tie!!
Great thread Beags.......you couldn't make this stuff up.......
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Baby Sitting the Red Arrows
As a Cpl MTD on a punishment tour as the driver to the AA at the Embassy at Washington DC from 1970 to 1973 I remember the two Vulcan’s that displayed at Transpo 72 at Dulles along with the Arrows in their Gnats. As well as taking the Boss (CWC) along every day in our XJ6 part of my task was to top up the Duty Free from the RAF Booze store at the Embassy for all the Air and Ground Crew on the detachment. Are any of the crew from that trip on this thread and would care to enlighten everyone on the Vulcan’s babysitting the Red Arrows on their trip from the UK and back.
Suspicion breeds confidence
I have just read it and recommend it. There is a lot of detail to absorb, so you may need to read it at least twice. I know I did.
Also, I was read in a paper this morning that said someone commented "It was airworthy when it landed, it will be airworthy when it takes off next year, why the **** didn't they just keep it flying."
Also, I was read in a paper this morning that said someone commented "It was airworthy when it landed, it will be airworthy when it takes off next year, why the **** didn't they just keep it flying."
Last edited by Navaleye; 3rd Sep 2006 at 18:47. Reason: Forgot to add point 2
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Sixties Vulcans
Occasionally on my motorcycle ride to work my short cut accross the runway at RAF Burtonwood was closed due the deployment of a flight of three snow white Vulcans.
Watching all three take of virually simultaneously was well worth the bollocking I got for being late!
I also have memories (I think) of being at farnboro' & watching a Vulcan fly by with a fifth engine (Olympus?) as a test bed - what a rate of climb.
Watching all three take of virually simultaneously was well worth the bollocking I got for being late!
I also have memories (I think) of being at farnboro' & watching a Vulcan fly by with a fifth engine (Olympus?) as a test bed - what a rate of climb.
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Money, I suppose, as usual.... And getting the 600 tons of spares transferred... and setting up the new maintenance organisation at Bruntingthorpe....
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Cunning Artificer
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But don't you agree there is some logic in "keep the beast flying, damn it"?
Unfortunately the civilian regulators don't look kindly on painting over the RAF serial number XH558 with G-VULC. They insist on all sorts of expensive inspections, corrosion repairs, approved design and maintenance organization nonsense first.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Post-war aircraft were not designed to 'fail-safe' principles. That entails building in such a level of redundancy that a spar break is obvious but the aircraft can be landed safely (well that's the theory). As fail-safe was not built in an alternative safety polcy called 'safe-life' was adopted.
In safe-life the fatigue usage was calculated and each aircraft given a fatigue index. As it flew its activity was recorded on a data recorder and also by the crew. After each flight its remaining fatigue index was recalculated. Once it reached its calculated fatigue limit it would be withdrawn from service.
Major servicing would replace forecast and observed fatigued items and the aircraft returned to service. The fatigue model could be tweaked by post-service analysis. In addition each manufacturer would retain one model as a fatigue testing rig. This would have mechanical wing flexing, undergo pressurisations and depressurisation, undercarriage retractions etc. These all cost money.
At one point the Victor was flying ahead of the fatigue model's life and flying was immediately curtailed until the tester caught up - it had been off-line for its own major mods.
Now in the case of 558 it had reached the end of its forecast fatigue life. The MoD no longer paid for the fatigue model and the programme came to a halt.
In the event, the Bruntingthorpe servicing, IIRC, found that the aircraft was in much better condition than expected but whether that was simply its fabric condition or its component condition I don't know.
As safe-life was a crude but safe calculation it was not unreasonable that some aircraft would have been less fatigued than expected. For several years 558 was limited to display flying which may not be as fatiguing as being buffetted at 350 kts low level or even 250 kts.
Bottom line though, safety costs money. MoD turned off the money tap and no one stumped up the immediate £1m for the 1993 service.
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[quote=Pontius Navigator;2823468]There was a small matter or airworthiness and money.
Post-war aircraft were not designed to 'fail-safe' principles. That entails building in such a level of redundancy that a spar break is obvious but the aircraft can be landed safely (well that's the theory). As fail-safe was not built in an alternative safety polcy called 'safe-life' was adopted.
In safe-life the fatigue usage was calculated and each aircraft given a fatigue index. As it flew its activity was recorded on a data recorder and also by the crew. After each flight its remaining fatigue index was recalculated. Once it reached its calculated fatigue limit it would be withdrawn from service.
In the event, the Bruntingthorpe servicing, IIRC, found that the aircraft was in much better condition than expected but whether that was simply its fabric condition or its component condition I don't know.
As safe-life was a crude but safe calculation it was not unreasonable that some aircraft would have been less fatigued than expected.quote]
Couple of extra ditties here:
Aircraft are only metal and wires, so with the right attention can be kept flying for ever, in theory. Look at the B52, which is on its n-th upgrade and may well be the first aircraft to stay in service for 100 years. Not there yet but quite feasible. New wings, replaced wiring looms, new hydraulic pipes and fuel lines, new engines...lots of spares!
These were the sorts of options I believe were considered for the Vulcan fleet, too, though at this range downwind my memory might not be quite on spec.
Secondly, fatigue is only one element of lifing; simple age is another, leading to wear-out and corrosion, which also have to be factored in to maintenence and inspections.
Finally, if I recall my aircraft design lectures at uni properly, the Vulcan wing was one of the strongest and most redundant structures ever put into an aircraft. Oddly, quite unlike the Canberra which was a mono-spar design!
Post-war aircraft were not designed to 'fail-safe' principles. That entails building in such a level of redundancy that a spar break is obvious but the aircraft can be landed safely (well that's the theory). As fail-safe was not built in an alternative safety polcy called 'safe-life' was adopted.
In safe-life the fatigue usage was calculated and each aircraft given a fatigue index. As it flew its activity was recorded on a data recorder and also by the crew. After each flight its remaining fatigue index was recalculated. Once it reached its calculated fatigue limit it would be withdrawn from service.
In the event, the Bruntingthorpe servicing, IIRC, found that the aircraft was in much better condition than expected but whether that was simply its fabric condition or its component condition I don't know.
As safe-life was a crude but safe calculation it was not unreasonable that some aircraft would have been less fatigued than expected.quote]
Couple of extra ditties here:
Aircraft are only metal and wires, so with the right attention can be kept flying for ever, in theory. Look at the B52, which is on its n-th upgrade and may well be the first aircraft to stay in service for 100 years. Not there yet but quite feasible. New wings, replaced wiring looms, new hydraulic pipes and fuel lines, new engines...lots of spares!
These were the sorts of options I believe were considered for the Vulcan fleet, too, though at this range downwind my memory might not be quite on spec.
Secondly, fatigue is only one element of lifing; simple age is another, leading to wear-out and corrosion, which also have to be factored in to maintenence and inspections.
Finally, if I recall my aircraft design lectures at uni properly, the Vulcan wing was one of the strongest and most redundant structures ever put into an aircraft. Oddly, quite unlike the Canberra which was a mono-spar design!
Nixor ut Ledo
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The B52s in service now (and expected to be at end of service life) are NOT the B52s which came off the line in the beginning. G and H comes a long while after A and B. although I grant you the ones at the end of the B52s useful life will likely be very old.
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Want to bet a barrel of beer on it?
Only H models are left in service, first H was delivered in Spring 1961, last one in Autumn 1962.
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They're looking at using fuel extracted from coal instead of oil. Old technology with new impetus caused by oil price, availability and security of supply.
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e Hole: Grey and wrinkled on the outside and you can but imagine what it was like on the inside!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Coal hole it was.
The Shack was sheer luxury. Properly upholstered leather seats and windows with a view. The Vulcan and Victor had suede-type leather on the dinghy pack and a ratpack carefully angled upward to use the spare space between one's buttocks.
The Shack was sheer luxury. Properly upholstered leather seats and windows with a view. The Vulcan and Victor had suede-type leather on the dinghy pack and a ratpack carefully angled upward to use the spare space between one's buttocks.
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