Shuttleworth Displays - Feedback Required, Please
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: N51:37:39 W1:19:16 Feel free to use as a waypoint.
Posts: 844
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the subject of raising prices for more visiting acts
Having just endured (on Sunday) a long trip round the M25 on the way home from Duxford where I have paid the best part of 20 quid for the privaledge of seeing a show 50% of which was based aircraft I have had a chance to ponder the tricky subject of pricing.
Duxford (excepting legends) lean heavily upon based aircraft for their shows although the percentage of bought in acts is less than OW, the based aircraft used always seem to be the same ones time and time again (ok I know someone will prove me wrong). At OW the percentage of based aircraft used is higher but the are rotated around so its not all the same at each show.
Airbedane has suggested raising the price of maybe one show per year to get some bought in acts. Nice theory but what if the advertising that has been promised brings the Smith family to OW for the first time, only to find out that the cost is similar to Duxford with a greater atmosphere but less museum to visit (Dux always make a big play on being able to visit the museum for the cost of show entry). My guess I that they would be one time visitors.
I guess what I am trying to say is that there is no place with the atmosphere and "bang for your buck" as OW. If we are to have a show with more outside acts - and the more I think about it, the more I doubt that the current ratio should be changed much - then I feel it would be better to spread the cost over the whole season or not do it at all.
Its just a hunch!!
HP
Welcome back, hope you both had a wonderful time.
Our Lands and Highways Records people at work (I work of a Local Authority) define the highway boundary (where it is not noted or marked) as being the roadside edge of the highway ditch (if it exists) or the middle of any fence or hedge line. If there is a gap (again if there are no records) then a line parallel to the centreline of the road is drawn between both ends of the gap.
Does that make sense? Is it of any use? Probably not, its late thats my excuse.
Duxford (excepting legends) lean heavily upon based aircraft for their shows although the percentage of bought in acts is less than OW, the based aircraft used always seem to be the same ones time and time again (ok I know someone will prove me wrong). At OW the percentage of based aircraft used is higher but the are rotated around so its not all the same at each show.
Airbedane has suggested raising the price of maybe one show per year to get some bought in acts. Nice theory but what if the advertising that has been promised brings the Smith family to OW for the first time, only to find out that the cost is similar to Duxford with a greater atmosphere but less museum to visit (Dux always make a big play on being able to visit the museum for the cost of show entry). My guess I that they would be one time visitors.
I guess what I am trying to say is that there is no place with the atmosphere and "bang for your buck" as OW. If we are to have a show with more outside acts - and the more I think about it, the more I doubt that the current ratio should be changed much - then I feel it would be better to spread the cost over the whole season or not do it at all.
Its just a hunch!!
HP
Welcome back, hope you both had a wonderful time.
Our Lands and Highways Records people at work (I work of a Local Authority) define the highway boundary (where it is not noted or marked) as being the roadside edge of the highway ditch (if it exists) or the middle of any fence or hedge line. If there is a gap (again if there are no records) then a line parallel to the centreline of the road is drawn between both ends of the gap.
Does that make sense? Is it of any use? Probably not, its late thats my excuse.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northants, UK
Posts: 667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HP - surely a well trained ex-police dog can be convinced to leave some dog eggs in strategic spots where the hardcore freeloaders gather? This should make their viewing experience an exciting game of 'avoid the turd', to the soundtrack of 'Oops I've trodden in it again' by **itney Spears.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Midlands
Age: 71
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Freeloaders
MOTF - Had a great time thank you (apart from the few million illegals I seem to have imported inside my belly....)
Your information does indeed make sense and aligns with my rather dusty recollections - thanks for that.
DB - Let me tell you a string of funny police dog stories when I see you next, especially the one where I called the duty dog handler out in the middle of the night to a very recent burglary (yes, he did indeed have his police Gannex on over his pidgies!) he walked round to the back of his van, opened the door and said - 'oh bu@@er ....., I've forgotten the dog....'
Burglars 1 - Cops 0
Back to my favourite subject of Old Warden and the subject of this thread! -
Catering. I think anybody will agree that this needs looking at. There' s plenty of evidence that visitors currently are inclined to bring their own scoff. A profit opportunity missed.
I like the idea of a hog roast and...well...any change from sausage rolls and dull sandwiches really.
Cider - yes indeedy! Especially if its from Biddenden, Kent
Shepherd & Neame Spitfire - my favourite real ale from the oldest brewery in England. Kent again. Yes to that too please!
(Both of which give me the foulest of hangovers. ......)
Walrus - (If we cant have a genuine Walrus on the BBQ........!)
Wow - what a show-stopper one of those would be. I wonder what it would cost?
Must dash (for reasons connected with line one above).
HP
Your information does indeed make sense and aligns with my rather dusty recollections - thanks for that.
DB - Let me tell you a string of funny police dog stories when I see you next, especially the one where I called the duty dog handler out in the middle of the night to a very recent burglary (yes, he did indeed have his police Gannex on over his pidgies!) he walked round to the back of his van, opened the door and said - 'oh bu@@er ....., I've forgotten the dog....'
Burglars 1 - Cops 0
Back to my favourite subject of Old Warden and the subject of this thread! -
Catering. I think anybody will agree that this needs looking at. There' s plenty of evidence that visitors currently are inclined to bring their own scoff. A profit opportunity missed.
I like the idea of a hog roast and...well...any change from sausage rolls and dull sandwiches really.
Cider - yes indeedy! Especially if its from Biddenden, Kent
Shepherd & Neame Spitfire - my favourite real ale from the oldest brewery in England. Kent again. Yes to that too please!
(Both of which give me the foulest of hangovers. ......)
Walrus - (If we cant have a genuine Walrus on the BBQ........!)
Wow - what a show-stopper one of those would be. I wonder what it would cost?
Must dash (for reasons connected with line one above).
HP
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Gone.........for good this time.
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone else want to advertise their own air display acts on this forum? 
I have a 1965 Ford Cortina for sale if anyone's interested?
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I have a 1965 Ford Cortina for sale if anyone's interested?
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Burgess Hill, UK
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just come across this thread, thanks for giving us the opportunity to say what we think about Old Warden.
I only manage to get there maybe once a year- too many fly-ins to go to! When I go its usually for an evening display, as I go to Old Warden to see the old aircraft fly, Im not interested in seeing the modern stuff that I can see at any other airshow during the year. What I really want to see is the Edwardian aircraft and the 2s and 30s aircraft flying. I dont want to see Denny Dobson (good display but not what I want at Shuttleworth) I dont really want to see Chipmunks or Prentices either.
I went to the last evening display end Sept. It was great to see the LVG fly, the Hind and some of the other biplanes, a good effort to get the Blackburn monoplane into the air, but it wasnt its day. But with perfect conditions it was disappointing to see only the Boxkite flying of the pioneer aircraft.
I appreciate that we need good conditions to fly these aircraft and some times none can be flown, but this night was perfect, so surely some re-arranging could have been done. Cancell the Provost, cancel the Spitfire and Hurricane (yes they are great but we can see them any time) and get out more of the pioneer aircraft that can only be flown when condition permit. I would say cancel Denny Dobson too, but as youve paid already, you better have him fly. But I presume it costs nothing to cancel one Shuttleworth aircraft and substitute another.
As for the aquisition policy, Id personally rather not see the Prentice, Provost, Chipmunk etc in the collection, Id rather see the money spent on getting the current aircraft airworthy and purchasing really rare significant pre war aircraft. Having private aircraft at the collection is a great idea when it brings in new aircraft that are of interest like the Polikarpov. But Im not sure the same can be said for the SAL Bulldog.
It was nice to see the Staggerwing being displayed this time. Would be nice to see other similar aircraft as one offs, like the Waco from Gransden, or Curtiss Robin that sometime lives outside at Panshanger. Aircraft that dont usually go to other airshows.
I appreciate that this kind of thing might not be what brings in the general public, but it is what me and a number of people I have spoken to would like to see.
good luck!
I only manage to get there maybe once a year- too many fly-ins to go to! When I go its usually for an evening display, as I go to Old Warden to see the old aircraft fly, Im not interested in seeing the modern stuff that I can see at any other airshow during the year. What I really want to see is the Edwardian aircraft and the 2s and 30s aircraft flying. I dont want to see Denny Dobson (good display but not what I want at Shuttleworth) I dont really want to see Chipmunks or Prentices either.
I went to the last evening display end Sept. It was great to see the LVG fly, the Hind and some of the other biplanes, a good effort to get the Blackburn monoplane into the air, but it wasnt its day. But with perfect conditions it was disappointing to see only the Boxkite flying of the pioneer aircraft.
I appreciate that we need good conditions to fly these aircraft and some times none can be flown, but this night was perfect, so surely some re-arranging could have been done. Cancell the Provost, cancel the Spitfire and Hurricane (yes they are great but we can see them any time) and get out more of the pioneer aircraft that can only be flown when condition permit. I would say cancel Denny Dobson too, but as youve paid already, you better have him fly. But I presume it costs nothing to cancel one Shuttleworth aircraft and substitute another.
As for the aquisition policy, Id personally rather not see the Prentice, Provost, Chipmunk etc in the collection, Id rather see the money spent on getting the current aircraft airworthy and purchasing really rare significant pre war aircraft. Having private aircraft at the collection is a great idea when it brings in new aircraft that are of interest like the Polikarpov. But Im not sure the same can be said for the SAL Bulldog.
It was nice to see the Staggerwing being displayed this time. Would be nice to see other similar aircraft as one offs, like the Waco from Gransden, or Curtiss Robin that sometime lives outside at Panshanger. Aircraft that dont usually go to other airshows.
I appreciate that this kind of thing might not be what brings in the general public, but it is what me and a number of people I have spoken to would like to see.
good luck!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Biggleswade
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for posting the PM, SC, but I'm afraid I missed it. If you'll allow me, I'm going to put it back, but slightly amended.
At the beginning of the thread I said post whatever you like, but give a solution (or words to that effect) and that's what you did. It provides an alternate view with a perfectly good suggestion . It deserves to stay!
Again, I'm afraid I'm pressed for time. I'll try to answer the last few posts over the weekend.
A
"Hi SC,
Would you mind posting your PM, I think it would go well on the thread - we may also get some feedback as to how others see your act.......
I'll pass your request to xxxxx, our display consultant, I also suggest you contact her yourself on xxxxx xxxxxx.
All the Best, and thanks for the input.
A
[quote]
Southern Cross wrote on 15th October 2003 16:21:
Hi Airbedane
I have a suggestion, but thought I wouldn't be quite so cheeky as to post it on the general thread....!
Please could you consider inviting the Aerostars back next season instead of the Yakovlevs - 6 aeroplanes vs (now) 2... next year the Yak 50's, of which we have 5, are 30 years old in design - not quite up to the usual standard of beautiful classic aeroplanes that you feature, but getting there!
Also, there is now an original 1938 Swiss built Bucker Jungmann in the UK with its original Hirth engine - the only one of its type in the UK (the rest are Spanish CASA's from the 50's or newbuild Jungmanns). She is flying in original Swiss military colours and sports her original registration "A-12". I don't know if that might be of interest but certainly it is a genuine pre-war trainer and able to display a decent aerobatic sequence as well.
Best of luck for 2004.
Best regards
xxxxxxxxxx
"
So what's wrong with that?
At the beginning of the thread I said post whatever you like, but give a solution (or words to that effect) and that's what you did. It provides an alternate view with a perfectly good suggestion . It deserves to stay!
Again, I'm afraid I'm pressed for time. I'll try to answer the last few posts over the weekend.
A
"Hi SC,
Would you mind posting your PM, I think it would go well on the thread - we may also get some feedback as to how others see your act.......
I'll pass your request to xxxxx, our display consultant, I also suggest you contact her yourself on xxxxx xxxxxx.
All the Best, and thanks for the input.
A
[quote]
Southern Cross wrote on 15th October 2003 16:21:
Hi Airbedane
I have a suggestion, but thought I wouldn't be quite so cheeky as to post it on the general thread....!
Please could you consider inviting the Aerostars back next season instead of the Yakovlevs - 6 aeroplanes vs (now) 2... next year the Yak 50's, of which we have 5, are 30 years old in design - not quite up to the usual standard of beautiful classic aeroplanes that you feature, but getting there!
Also, there is now an original 1938 Swiss built Bucker Jungmann in the UK with its original Hirth engine - the only one of its type in the UK (the rest are Spanish CASA's from the 50's or newbuild Jungmanns). She is flying in original Swiss military colours and sports her original registration "A-12". I don't know if that might be of interest but certainly it is a genuine pre-war trainer and able to display a decent aerobatic sequence as well.
Best of luck for 2004.
Best regards
xxxxxxxxxx
"So what's wrong with that?
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: N51:37:39 W1:19:16 Feel free to use as a waypoint.
Posts: 844
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airbedane
Theres nowt wrong wi that. I'm all for it if you can get them.
As for the edwardians, Airbedane knows more than me (on just about every subject) but they need very calm conditions to fly so usually go out lasy of all. What a shame if the wind was too strong and your display of these wonderful old aircraft had to be cancelled.
I can see where you are coming from, however a carefully controlled variety is the spice of life at OW. Now if one could plan the weather when the display season was being mapped out one could have a dedicated Edwardian evening (with costumes and long moustaches) however life isnt that simple.
Now a different Spitfire, maybe the Rolls Royce Griffon engined one, that would be impressive round the bend.
Theres nowt wrong wi that. I'm all for it if you can get them.
As for the edwardians, Airbedane knows more than me (on just about every subject) but they need very calm conditions to fly so usually go out lasy of all. What a shame if the wind was too strong and your display of these wonderful old aircraft had to be cancelled.
I can see where you are coming from, however a carefully controlled variety is the spice of life at OW. Now if one could plan the weather when the display season was being mapped out one could have a dedicated Edwardian evening (with costumes and long moustaches) however life isnt that simple.
Now a different Spitfire, maybe the Rolls Royce Griffon engined one, that would be impressive round the bend.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Midlands
Age: 71
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Private owners
As a private owner at OW - Miles Magister V1075 and Miles Falcon G-AEEG - I am pleased to make my contribution - from displaying my aircraft to remonstrating with the freeloaders(!)
No - I dont get paid anything and yes, I pay hangarage and maintenance (superb quality at excellent rates - plug plug) just like anybody else. Perfectly happy with that.
I believe that as temporary custodians of our nations aviation heritage we should operate our aircraft for the benefit of others as well as ourselves. It is great fun too (especially the balloon 'missing'!)
If you have anything really interesting that might 'fit' the OW scene then there may be room for one or two more aircraft (am I right Ab??)
OW is a magic place and a priviledge indeed to fly there (although a little daunting at times for a hobby pilot rubbing shoulders with the pro's).
If you have something interesting and dont want / dont feel competent enough to display it yourself (pretty much my position in 01) there will be an instant queue of professionals to do it for you.
I can tell you that sitting in a deckchair with a beer (or cider!) in your hand watching your bird being displayed is a great feeling indeed.
My aircraft flew very little in the ten years before my ownership and rarely displayed. Not the case in the last 2 years!
And now - a question for you -
Whilst I would not consider selling the Magister - a great duo with the collections Maggie(?) - what are your views out there on the Falcon?
Would it be missed that much if I sold it? It is a consideration at the moment...
HP
No - I dont get paid anything and yes, I pay hangarage and maintenance (superb quality at excellent rates - plug plug) just like anybody else. Perfectly happy with that.
I believe that as temporary custodians of our nations aviation heritage we should operate our aircraft for the benefit of others as well as ourselves. It is great fun too (especially the balloon 'missing'!)
If you have anything really interesting that might 'fit' the OW scene then there may be room for one or two more aircraft (am I right Ab??)
OW is a magic place and a priviledge indeed to fly there (although a little daunting at times for a hobby pilot rubbing shoulders with the pro's).
If you have something interesting and dont want / dont feel competent enough to display it yourself (pretty much my position in 01) there will be an instant queue of professionals to do it for you.
I can tell you that sitting in a deckchair with a beer (or cider!) in your hand watching your bird being displayed is a great feeling indeed.
My aircraft flew very little in the ten years before my ownership and rarely displayed. Not the case in the last 2 years!
And now - a question for you -
Whilst I would not consider selling the Magister - a great duo with the collections Maggie(?) - what are your views out there on the Falcon?
Would it be missed that much if I sold it? It is a consideration at the moment...
HP
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Slough
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HP.
The Falcon is a lovely aircraft and yes I would miss it.
There is something special about aircraft from this era and the Falcon is one of the best.
Its a Gentlemens Aeronautical Carriage and its a pleasure to see it flying.
Peter.
The Falcon is a lovely aircraft and yes I would miss it.
There is something special about aircraft from this era and the Falcon is one of the best.
Its a Gentlemens Aeronautical Carriage and its a pleasure to see it flying.
Peter.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: N51:37:39 W1:19:16 Feel free to use as a waypoint.
Posts: 844
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I for one would miss her very much. Peter has hit the nail on the head, she fits in very well with the atmosphere at OW.
More importantly she is accessable to the public and not shut away in a hangar only to be flown to the odd fly-in. (I really like the folding wings however) unlike some members of the species I could mention.How about a formation with the Speed Six?
I say keep her. Let her grace the skies at as many events a possible. What could you possibly replace her with?
Cheers DB couldnt have put it better
More importantly she is accessable to the public and not shut away in a hangar only to be flown to the odd fly-in. (I really like the folding wings however) unlike some members of the species I could mention.How about a formation with the Speed Six?
I say keep her. Let her grace the skies at as many events a possible. What could you possibly replace her with?
Cheers DB couldnt have put it better
Personally, I would be very sad if the Falcon were to depart OW, even more so than the Maggie.
It is a lovely, lovely thing, and fits in really well at OW. A real pleasure to see it fly. After the loss of such as Jean Batten's Gull and the Mew Gull in recent years, it would be a shame to see it go.
Unless, of course, the Shuttleworth Trust were to acquire it for themselves........
And dependant on what it was replaced with, of course!
It is a lovely, lovely thing, and fits in really well at OW. A real pleasure to see it fly. After the loss of such as Jean Batten's Gull and the Mew Gull in recent years, it would be a shame to see it go.
Unless, of course, the Shuttleworth Trust were to acquire it for themselves........
And dependant on what it was replaced with, of course!