Of the 164,265,954 people (at last count) worldwide that have had COVID, how many pilots do you reckon have lost their medicals? I’d guess 3/5ths of f*ck all. If pilots were truly worried about losing their medicals, they’d be best advised to never smoke or drink. That’d be risk management.

Something got lost in translation there. I wasn't talking at all about losing medicals

Copy....:ok:

QF management are experts at shafting people,they are now imposing a 2 yr wage freeze & at the end of that you may be entitled to a 2% pay rise.
The chances of back pay will be almost zero so whilst they continue as normal the frontline workforce get hammered harder.
Maybe there is some truth in Sharp(rex) saying qf is technically insolvent.
Think hard before refusing redundancy.

Yeah because they’re clearly making shedloads of money right now, you idiot :ugh:

The announcement is only to help lower costs and make the profits they make in the next few years even larger for their bonus schemes.

Only be bothered by the announcement if you have an open EBA - the rest are fine - the world will be a different place by the time EBAs expire.

Obviously you know everything so we should all consult you before we are allowed to make a comment.
Maybe you can elaborate on how clever you think you are or are you just an angry little man.

Jetstar! They have an open EBA right?

The pay freeze is applicable from the last pay rise plus 12 months. There are a number of eba’s that are more than 3 years out of date so technically, any new agreements that are negotiated are able to include pay rises (provided they expired 3 or more years ago at the time the eba is voted up)....that’s how I read it anyway.

Question,
When Qantas crew return to Australia from an international flight are they required to request an exemption from NSW health everytime to go home to self isolate?

Sniffing around QF threads again I see, offering your pearls of wisdom!

Unlike LCC pilots chasing quick commands and measly bucks, we QF people like to look at the long term, and for this reason a pay freeze will be unpalatable for many. We’ve been down this road before and know exactly how it ends...with huge bonuses paid to Execs due to amazing transformations, recoveries etc etc.

Go on then, go stamp your foot about your pay freeze. See how far you get when a great deal of your fleet is parked in the desert, a tonne of your pilots are driving busses, and the borders are firmly shut.

The mind boggles how you think you are entitled to increasing pay when your airline is in the scenario it is.

Calm down son.

Some of us never had our fleet parked. Pilots were always flying and continuing to make money for this company. Yet we are now forced to take an effective pay cut for the next 2 years.

It’s because we aren’t naive and gullible. And nor it seems is Elizabeth Knight

https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...20-p57tp0.html

Yes they are. If they’ve come in through Darwin the quarantine period also doesn’t start until they reach NSW

Lots of truth in her article,she & many others are not naive & gullible & buckle under AJ's word whenever he tries to bully whoever he feels like.
He is telling us now we need get vaccinated,that is none of his business but as usual he thinks he knows everything & has an opinion on everything.
Nobody is suggesting his airline hasnt & isnt suffering but when he uses that to push his agenda on many other issues it just shows what makes him tick.
Good luck to all still working for him,you are the lifeline of the company but he has never been noble enough to recognise your efforts,he just wants more,more,more.

I think one of the best mechanisms to ensure that money saved from ‘pay freezes’ and caps on pay increases, doesn’t just end up as management bonuses, is to have an incentive scheme similar to what the short haul award currently contains.

It might not be perfect, but At least it ensures that when the turn around comes and the bonuses are flowing, that there is a contractual obligation to share in the success.

It should cost nothing to have this type of scheme implemented in every award as they are signed up for this pay freeze, to have it sitting there ready for when the profits and management bonuses begin to flow again.

Random thought:

Can Qantas post a profit with crew stood down.

Possibly because the company railroaded through a LH EA, with pay rises, when the current scenario was already very apparent?

Yes, but they won’t want to which is why they’ll find a bunch of things to write off and declare a loss.

I’m sure they can but it would be highly unethical.

Imo, the stand down provisions should be null and void as soon as the company posts any kind of profit. But what Keg said.

Would being unethical worry them?
Im guessing they would bleat about their great management skills & convince everyone what a great job they are doing whilst lining their pockets at the same time.

For those that got their EBA in pre COVID (LH and SH) in the unlikely event they are still pushing wage freezes by the time the next one comes around they are looking at 14 or 15% pay rises in the period 2019 to 2025

J* and the links are looking at 10% for the same period all due to the change in “wage policy” all while inflation figure will be around 15%.

so the mainline guys will just about maintain salary to cost of living over the period. The rest won’t. It is amazing what can be done with the stroke of a pen

There must be a few PIA proponents in the AFAP feeling rather childlike and foolish now.

Well done. Great stratergy. 32 years past and still nothing learnt.

MCD

If you think profit or no profit has anything to do with the legality of stand down you need to consult a barrister.
Hint. It’s not a major factor.
The pay freeze is a red herring.
Many pilots have already had 2 years of a 100% pay cut in the hundreds of thousands.The compound loss of money yet alone struggling to feed a family or pay a mortgage.The treatment of pilots by Qantas is disgusting, particularly given certain pilot managers haven’t done a single day of stand down and have little work to perform.
The lack of people giving a f$#@& when they return will be enlightened for them.When you treat people like s&$# then you deserve it.Don’t suspect they care given they are alright jack.

Is it hard to type with your head jammed entirely up your own ass?

Unlike LCC pilots chasing quick commands and measly bucks, we QF people like to look at the long term notes " Transition Layer".

The simplistic structure of that one sentence unfortunately says it all.

With a post worded as such, you can only asume its a wind up.

MCD

A wind up or just a product of the fact that it takes around 30 years to long haul command? Most qantas pilots I know make bids tactically because the pay scales and promotions do not represent a linear pay rise. The days of taking the first upgrade available ended over a decade ago. Why? Because under normal circumstances a senior 4 engined S/O would earn far more money for significantly fewer duty hours than their colleagues of similar seniority who took FO positions in short haul

Best post ever.

By the way Transition Layer, if you don’t want people like myself posting on a public forum about a topic concerning Qantas, suggest you take it somewhere else.

This applies to everyone,not only pilots but what you have said in your post is spot on,they dont give a s&$# about anyone..

I must have hit a raw nerve!

I’d love to find another forum without you stalking Qantas threads morno, but it’s also hard to see with my head up my arse.

Keg’s Law: The longer a PPRUNE discussion about Qantas goes on the greater chance there is of it turning into a mainline v JQ stoush.

Really???? So, the company is supposed to keep paying or keep on the books, people who have no work to do and are not likely to until 2022.... THEN, having made them redundant, they MUST employ them again if they make 'any kind of profit' - OK, so if they make $1.00c profit, you reckon they should re-employ them all, even if there's still no work for them.

Seriously, I wonder what sort of feather-bedded bubble some people live in. Qantas is a publicly listed company, they are ultimately required to produce a return on invested capital by the shareholders. No company can be held to guarantee re-employment if they make 'any kind of profit'. That is simply la-la land and completely unrealistic....... apply this to ANY other business, for instance, if you owned shares in a restaurant chain, with half the restaurants closed across the country because of, gee, let me think, a months long pandemic - would you want the chain to go bust and lose your investment because they just kept staff on when there was no prospect of work for a year or more.

No business can be expected to do that, no business can survive by doing that.

Need I remind anyone that VA kept putting staff on and putting staff on and negotiating EBA after EBA with increased wages and in some cases, zero productivity increase, the shareholders swallowed it over and over again while billions were spent on frivolous items, aircraft leases were exorbitant, bonuses paid every year and what happened in the end....... then they restarted and got rid of all but 6000 of their staff....

I apologise if I am wrong but I always thought Qantas was an airline and their primary purpose was to provide an "airline service". Since when were they some type of investment company with return on capital to shareholders being their primary goal? :confused:

July 1995.

No-one has been made redundant, so no-one has to be re-employed. All stood down crew are still employed, just not getting paid. Important difference.

I know several long-term stood down crew who would welcome redundancy at the moment just to try and gain some certainty. Or perhaps more accurately, they would be seeking to remove uncertainty.

I agree the treatment of staff has been woeful, I can understand stand downs of 3 months but when you are telling people there will be no useful work for 3 years you should do the right thing and allow those who want it to take redundancy. Saying you won’t do that as you will need the pilots in 3 years time is just appalling, turns my stomach every time we get an email from management thanking us for being so resilient, I was only stood down for 3 months and that was stressful enough, I feel so sorry for those still with the uncertainty. I am not saying Qantas is responsible for this situation but they could have definitely been more proactive in providing options for the worst effected crew, I couldn’t care less about a 2 year pay freeze, it is inevitable in the current environment.

For good or for bad, the company is limited to acting within the Agreement. Look at clause 15.10.1 and 15.6.

I wonder how many takers they'd get if they offered another round of voluntary redundancies to the Longhaul Pilot group now….

No, the company can choose not to keep you stood down.
Like they have done for every other problem prior to CV.