Why were pilots being hired on individual contracts?

Can’t be forced to join a union in NZ. If you’re not part of the Union, you can’t be a part of the collective agreement. Hence you’re put on an individual contract. For all intensive purposes, the contract is identical to the collective agreement.

ahh, interesting.

So I guess those union fees really paid off for the NZ guys then

I’ve got no idea about the JQ NZ situation, but if those rumours are true they sure did. Pretty interesting QF/JQ can get away with that though...

The redundancies have nothing to do with being on an individual contract.
The company has apparently come up with an optimised figure of approximately 11 crew per frame, which translates to an excess of 2 FO’s in Chc, and 5 in Auckland. Six Chc Captains are also forced to move to Akl. All part of the long term plan to “resize NZ bases”.

I am not sure why the consensus seems to be hanging onto provisions of the EBA going forward, it has been said at various levels of government that these are unprecedented times, and the travel industry has been hardest hit. If there was ever a time to terminate an EBA in exceptional circumstances for an airline, it would be now with the majority of the fleet grounded because of governmentent imposed restrictions which have no foreseeable end. If we could see the end date of this it would be different, that is not the case.

The public interest going forward is for two viable domestic airlines, which will require significant downsizing from the current size. Cuts would have to go across the board, head office, catering, ground support/engineering, cabin crew, and pilots.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....0fe990f806.jpg

Perhaps he was referring pacifically to renumeration. :}

pacifically ?


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6dc53a3dd8.jpg

Sarcasm detector broken?

You missed "renumeration" too.

Somethink doesn't look right?

I've aksed around and no one has an answer

He gets it. :ok:

For all intensive purposes it's a mute point. Are we really going to correct everyones grammar in one foul swoop? Surely there are bigger issues, like our boarders for example. Your just wasting you're time.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....ae1391b4b7.gif

You missed "Intents and purposes" and "you're just wasting your time" I hope maths is your thing

I'm chomping at the bit to see where this goes......

A word of advise for you...

Give Chazza et al a break.
It has been a deliberate policy of the Education Departments for at least the last 20 years ( 30 ? ) to undervalue History and Grammar.
Because policy is run by teachers.
And teachers think that rigorous learning , especially rote learning , is an expression of white privilege , post-colonial , Fascist , male-oppression......(insert grievance here)............
Not his fault really.

Did you just assume Chazza’s gender pronoun.

Could of been a mistake?

Yes , sorry . Quite right.
Could have been a Ze

Could have ...

Or my detector is broken too. In which case ... bravo!

It was meant to be a pisstake, but will surely be lost on both the pedants and illiterates lurking here.
It pains me that we who only need to learn one language can’t get it right. Many other nationalities master two or more languages and do better
I have just finished reading an extensive study of average national IQ levels and sadly note that Australia is on equal footing with the USA. Both in decline, way behind several Asian and European countries.
Apologies for adding to thread drift.

Where's the 'like' button? :ok:

Could have been a mistake .;)

this makes no sense
we're all sitting on a circa 90% paycut. As we go back flying that cut will lessen until such stage as everyone (left) is flying and something of a recovery is well under way so you could easily say we are supporting the situation hugely.
yet you randomly suggest here that we need to start making 'gives' from an agreement made during the crisis.


what gives?

Common sense - aka the ability to reason and act appropriately to a situation - is one of the many markers of IQ. Societies with the highest IQ are best prepared to survive hard times. One study makes much of the fact that IQ is only partly acquired through education and environment. It is also tied to genes and race, but not gender. This would not be seen as "politically correct" here. Inhibited we certainly are, but I agree that we are better off here than almost anywhere else in the world right now. Just so long as we don't f@#k it up.

Well we have Fu%#ed it up and New Zealand is a better place to be.

Many people here simply refuse to accept reality four months ago I said this on the project sunrise thread when so many
were agonizing over this new contracts , the night credits the other T & Cs. The reality is that when this was posted (30th March ) PS was a dead duck

"Guys the high & mighty Project Sunrise was something for pre global pandemic days

Who could forget the epic photos of QF leaders landing in Honolulu with loud shirts after indulging in a beverage or two
, or was this a delivery flight of the "game changer" . What a truly edifying happy snap that one was, how truly iconic it was for a brief moment. All so hard to remember , there was just so much big talk , so much chest beating & the hype (as well the delays in action & decisions) was just endless

Qantas is not going to order any aircraft for years & PS is dead

Stop dream time it won't help you rebuild your careers & for many that will mean finding either (a) a new airline or (b) a new career

Two years from now you will be doing incredibly well if you have two thirds of your international capacity back "

The projection of two thirds of capacity back in two years , March 2022 was wildly optimistic , you kick off international in June/July 2021 starting at zero % at that point in time

Having 25% back after two years (March 2022) would be a great achievement

LWOP update: I note that QF is offering employment at Network via EOI at the moment , it is only available to those on LWOP

Clearly QF is certain to make lwop an eligibility criteria for employment in other group airlines & well possibly Jetstars

Choice would seem pretty clear for SOs years on stand down & strong possibility of CR with re-employment in 2030s

Or take lwop guarantee your return in a few years & quite reasonable likelihood of employment in other QF group airline via "lwop only" entry

Still think your more senior pilots pushing the "hang in there mate" line are advising you wisely

Youve only ever been Able to take employment at another group entity by taking LWOP. There is no other way to do it. Unless you resign and go permanently.

Where this is different is that lwop is a pre-requisite to applying - never occurred before

In the past you could apply , do interview , receive offer , then apply for lwop from your particular QF airline

So this process is something completely new

Just a question Telfer86, have you confirmed this is the case?

As I understand its the same as all other opportunities in the past. a month ago, I was told by our Chief Pilot LWOP will be granted for any "Group opportunities", But interested to know if it is different this time.

How many QF mainline employees would have the requirements for those network positions anyway? maybe the SOs that transferred from Jetstar and PH based Jetstar guys that want to stay in Perth.

Bit of a flat earth theory just above
You are assuming that criteria for other group jobs will remain the same
It could very well change to "be on lwop from mainline"

I may be missing something here, but what about the current Network people? Have they picked up more work to justify an increase in staff numbers or is it in anticipation of picking up VARA work. Just asking..........

i guess it’s faster and cheaper to hire current A320 pilots from JQ than it is to train up F100 pilots to the Airbus.

First A320 from this fleet increase coming in October, anyone have any details on the subsequent deliveries to Network?

Given the requirement for A320 time within the last 12 months and the preference for WA domiciled applicants these slots seem to be tailor made for the now defunct PER base JQ guys and gals. The number of slots on offer is roughly the same as the size of the previous JQ base

Network are going to start operating PER-DRW/ADL. Much cheaper crew then those pesky 737 folks

Covid 19 would be the ideal excuse for Qantas to dramatically increase Network as a B scale to Mainline domestically.

Crew costs cheaper than JQ (both in the cockpit and in the cabin) and able to charge mainline prices. An accountants dream.

Crystal balling, but I’m predicting 20-30 airframes and east coast bases within 3-5 years.

Also PER-SIN and PER - BNE apparently, and taking over the PER-CNS from Jetstar. After they get the next 10 airframes PER-HBA, PER-MEL-AKL, and also PER - SIN - TPE - NRT. SYD and BNE bases starting within a year.