Again I hope you're right but the company will argue that demand has collapsed because of C-19 and thus they "cannot be held responsible".
The opening of borders may not be the trigger to relax stand-downs I'm afraid.

There’s a lot of ground between the current state of Australians borders being closed to all, and the 2019 state of being open.

When the borders go back to 2019 levels it won’t be done all at once. It’ll be a few neighbouring nations in travel bubbles first, then later other nations which have handled the outbreak well. Nations which haven’t done well at handling the outbreak (US, Brazil for example) will be delayed even further. And even when citizens of those nations are allowed to enter there could be conditions attached. An antibody test, a statement of vaccination, caps on flights and pax numbers from certain countries, a quarantine until a rapid test is performed, limits on the entry of aged or vulnerable populations, limitations on those travellers entering remote and indigenous communities. It may be years until full and free unrestricted travel is back.

The border argument can be summarised by the domestic situation. When all domestic borders are opened unrestricted, will all domestic pilots be stood up? I think not.

NSW and VIC borders are open unrestricted. Does that mean all domestic SYD and MEL based pilots have been stood up? No.

Hoping the situation will be different with International is Illogical.

There’s a whole prop fleet stood down in SYD and BNE while the more expensive fleet is gaining routes.

I haven’t yet heard where the extended govt subsidies are being used, but that plus jobkeeper doesn’t make it hard to keep people stood down.

Every time I come back in for a look, people have to be reminded....

They are using larger aircraft because they get a larger government subsidy.

Jetstar flew one passenger into Sunshine Coast today on a flight from Melbourne. What a waste of taxpayer dollars. I mean just charter a freighter for the supplies.

Extraordinary! Seems very odd to me. How many punters were on the outbound flight?

Didn't the government subsidies cease a few weeks ago?

Canberra extends aid to support airlines for domestic flights

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/...4f5d?width=650The extension of federal government aid will help keep Virgin Australia flying till it completes a sale. Picture: AFP

• ROBYN IRONSIDE

  
  AVIATION WRITER
  https://i1.wp.com/pixel.tcog.cp1.new..._location=none
• 12:00AM JUNE 8, 2020
• 2 COMMENTS

The federal government has extended its financial assistance to the aviation industry for up to six months in a move that will help keep Virgin Australia in the air until a sale is finalised.

Taxpayer-subsidised flights will continue to the end of September on key domestic routes, and until the end of the year for regional airlines.

Announcing the extension of aviation network support, Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack said the funding would not only prop up airlines but protect regional communities.

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“We don’t want airlines to be flying to various destinations and losing money so what we want to make sure is if we need to ferry around personal protective equipment, face masks and vital medical personnel then there’s the opportunity to do so,” Mr McCormack said.

“What we’re also doing is making sure the airlines have the capacity to do it, keeping jobs in those airlines and giving them hope coming out the back of COVID-19 that there will be a viable aviation industry.”

Since late March, close to $365m had been spent on subsidising domestic and regional flights and Mr McCormack’s office would not say how much had been budgeted for the extension.

Mr McCormack said the latest commitment would take the total funding for the aviation industry to more than $1.2bn across a range of measures designed to lessen the financial impact of crippling COVID-19 travel restrictions.

“I’ve been monitoring the aviation sector on almost an hourly basis, not a daily basis. It’s been something that’s occupied much of my waking hours over recent months and so far so good,” he said.

“Without this assistance, many of those aviation routes would not have seen services and many of the 250,000 people who work in aviation would’ve been out of work with the potential to never go back.”

Qantas and Virgin Australia welcomed the extended support for a minimum domestic network, saying it would allow them to continue to fly to destinations that would otherwise be unviable.

The support was also expected to help cash-strapped Virgin Australia remain in operation until the sale of the airline was finalised. The carrier went into administration on April 21 with debts of $6.8bn and administrators Deloitte have worked hard to find cash to keep Virgin Australia flying.

It’s understood they now have just over $100m, which is expected to see the airline’s bare bones operation through to the end of August.

US companies Bain and Cyrus Capital are vying to buy Virgin Australia for as much as $4bn with final bids due by June 22.

Mr McCormack, who has been under fire from unions for not bailing out Virgin, revealed he was following the administration closely.

“We have two firm bidders in Cyrus and Bain and I’m confident we can come out of this with two commercially viable airlines,” said Mr McCormack.

“I’m certainly confident that our regional airways will be as good as they can be coming out of the back of COVID-19.”

A Virgin Australia spokeswoman said the government’s support for minimal domestic network would allow the airline to increase its network reach and cities served.

“Pleasingly, the extension of the minimal network allows us to keep some team members working throughout the crisis and continue to keep Australia connected during this time,” she said.

“We remain in discussions with the government and hope to have a new contract finalised soon.”

Qantas announced a significant increase in domestic flying last week, coinciding with school holidays and a gradual easing of travel restrictions.

Services will increase from just over 100 return flights a week to more than 300 weekly return flights from June 22, with a further jump in capacity expected in July.

Despite the additional services, a Qantas spokeswoman said the subsidised flights would allow them to conduct interstate and regional services to areas where travel restrictions meant passenger numbers were limited.

The government subsidised domestic minimum viable network was extended in June till September, not sure what routes it covers though

Just saw a 380 full noise departures early right turn over the Harbour Bridge bound for the desert I guess...this ain’t over yet is it🙁

VR package is out:

> 15 years service 12 months base pay
> 5 years service 9 months base pay
< 5 years service 6 months base pay

Take LWOP and you will be skipped over if CR is required.

Which group has this been offered to?

And how long is the LWOP period?

All long haul pilots.

As little or as long as you’d like, all assessed on an individual basis. HOBO has seen LWOP over his time approved up to about 5 years.
But the question I think you’re getting at, as per the EBA, minimum 12 months LWOP to be passed over for CR.

more than a years pay when taxed accordingly afaik

buT tHe hOstIeS gEt 14 mOntHs

No problem swap your 12 months VR with a 14 month Flight attendant payout. It’s not about weeks or months, it’s about the payout, and it’s entirely up to the Company what they offer, anyone saying anything else is full of it. Take it or leave it, it’s pretty bloody simple.

The FA's have it documented in the EBA what a VR payout is.

If you wanted the same amount of weeks that they got you should have negotiated it into EBA 10.

It's a stupid argument when your wage is xxx higher.

QF pilots didn’t have any redundancy provisions until the CWD.
If it is voluntary it is voluntary. Stop whinging if the bait is not attractive enough.
I’d be happy if it was good enough to get angryrat, going boeing, Vjet, et al.
More to the point, if they are as unhappy as they portray, they should do the honourable thing and resign.

In 2014 the Union thought the Company’s offer was far less than what was needed to entice enough pilots to take it. They were wrong. And that was when there was an option to keep flying and earning a wage for those targeted for VR. Now there’s stand downs:

Pilots not happy with Qantas redundancy offer

They will have no trouble getting enough takers. I predict it will be oversubscribed. As dr Dre says, they had enough when there was flying to be done.

Once those eligible make peace with the fact that it’s not a reflection of what QF think you are worth, and simply a number QF think you will take, they will reflect on the alternative, and take what’s on offer. It’s a no brainer.

AIPA was correct on that one. They reckoned it needed to be higher to get 100 applicants for VR. Qantas only received about 52 applications for that one. They still seemed happy with the outcome though. I suspect they’ll be happy with this one too whether the number is 100 or 200.

Those over 63.5 will get an offer soon I suspect. An ‘early retirement’ is taxed slightly differently to VR but still better than marginal tax rates- the ATO guidance on this is appalling! Even if the offer was for the leave they accrue between now and 65 and bundled in with their accrued leave (if they have any) they’re still likely to be better off than remaining on stand down between now and 65th birthday.

So, if you take the 12 month LWOP to avoid being made redundant, what happens if after the 12 months you come back, intl is still dead in the water, and the company a month later makes you redundant “due to new review on impact of the virus” or whatever.. How long does the ‘amnesty’ on redundancy for those who take the LWOP option legally last? Anything other than a legal clarification surely wouldn’t be acceptable to opt into it?

Then you get made redundant when you come back from LWOP.

I hope the company is prepared for the onslaught of LWOP applications they are about to receive!

What is the benefit of taking LWOP? Why not just stay stood down and accrue leave and get JK?

For the “super junior” in either LH or SH, taking LWOP will protect you from being made redundant. i think the way they have set this up is smart (from the company’s side). They will surely get hundreds of the senior guys to take VR, while at the same time, scaring juniour blokes into taking LWOP to try and not be made compulsorily redundant.

JK will not last forever KZK. If it’s extended, probably only another 3-6 months. After that standown is standown, ie, no useful work no pay. Bit different here than ENZED I believe. You could be stood-down for three years with no pay, but you will retain your spot in the list and accrue benefits such as annual, long service and personal leave. Still have the curly one of exactly how long can you be stood down.........3 months, 6 months......3 years!!!!! Surely someone would challenge it if it just goes on and on.

Genuine question people........how does the amnesty clause fit in with your EA??

why would a junior SH pilot be made redundant? QF have stated there is no forecast surplus in SH....what am I missing?

Don't know surfer dude. I think the jury is still out on what happens in seniority when we get to a CR. Not tying to be alarmist, but have they said that they will not use the seniority list for CR? What does a "forecast surplus" mean with regard to CR?

Ah ok. In a webinair it was touched on, but QF consider LH and SH completely separate for redundancy. The integration agreement just says ‘new hire’ pilots go first in accordance with the Pilots Agreement (ie where the surplus is). I haven’t read the A/Q stuff in great detail but I believe the ‘Y’ starts somewhere around seniority 600....if it gets that far I’d say it’s game over anyway! Of course, I’d expect this to be challenged.

hopefully we never have to find out.

You have less than 4 weeks to be on LWOP to avoid inclusion in a potential CR:
The win for the company is you no longer accrue leave. I’m still unsure if you can get jobkeeper when on LWOP.

Good luck out there...

Are you guys (and girls) saying that:

If you are on LWOP, you can not be made redundant?


Upon your return you might be made redundant.... but then you’d just extend your LWOP wouldn’t you?

I imagine your LWOP extension would have to be approved.

From our email:

To provide you with further clarity regarding the LWOP offering, I can confirm that we will exercise our discretion to pass over any pilot on LWOP should it become necessary to enact a CR program, subject to the following conditions:

• LWOP application must be submitted on or after 31 March 2020;
• LWOP to commence no later than 7 August 2020;
• LWOP application is for a period greater than 12 months; and
• The pilot is on this period of LWOP at the time that CRs are notified.

Yes. The intention presumably is to get Junior folk to go on LWOP indefinitely (obviously the longer the better to avoid the possibility of coming off LWOP just to be made redundant on your return) until there is work for them, which stops the accrual of leave entitlements and I'd suspect simplifies to operation. How much is 6 weeks of leave a year worth, compared to the possibility of CR? I don't know. The 7th of August is the same day the VR applications close, so we won't know how many have taken it when we are supposed to already be on LWOP to avoid CR. You have to admit, it's industrially brilliant.
Forewarned is forearmed, as they say.

Is that a company email? I haven’t seen it

Yes, from base operations yesterday morning.

The company wants people to stop accruing leave entitlements by forcing us on LWOP. Don't do it and you run the risk of a CR notice landing in your inbox.

This isn't just targeted at the junior crew for what its worth. If the bottom 400 recently hired SO's all take LWOP (and you would be stupid not to take it), guess who they are coming after next.

Its a threat to everyone. Want a future at Qantas? You have 4 weeks to take LWOP.

Jamie, don't misinterpret my calling out the corruption of senior QF management as "being unhappy" - I have thoroughly enjoyed my career and feel privileged to have been selected quite a few years ago.

You don't have to be a naive "yes" man to enjoy your career.

Yep, the more people take LWOP, the higher up the ladder the crocodile can climb. All depending on how many stay comfortably on the top. A number we won't know until it's conceivably too late. Fark.

But the more LWOP taken, the fewer redundancies required.

LWOP is cheap, CR is expensive.