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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Keg 31st Jan 2021 12:10


Originally Posted by WipperSnapper (Post 10980166)
As recent as yesterday's press conference he was saying hotel quarantine should be a Federal run program at remote locations...

It’s one of the most idiotic proposals known to man kind. Introduces a whole bunch of risk transferring people with Covid from their point of arrival vast distances by bus, or air and then bus, to a remote location. Then you don’t have the critical mass of support workers required to run a proper quarantine system and need to ship people in. You also don’t have the same level of medical support available if someone gets seriously crook. And if it does get out into the community in that ‘remote location’ you then have to shut down that entire quarantine facility because the odds are you don’t have any surge capability of other staff to come in and take the place of those staff now in isolation.

compressor stall 31st Jan 2021 12:10

SOPS - No joy from me for reasons of jobs, economy and social life. However having had random strangers in Perth CBD abuse and yell at my crew on many occasions over the past 7 months as we were wearing masks (sometimes in uniform and sometimes without) I can't help but feel a little bit of karma striking down those individuals.

currawong 31st Jan 2021 12:29


Originally Posted by compressor stall (Post 10980255)
SOPS - No joy from me for reasons of jobs, economy and social life. However having had random strangers in Perth CBD abuse and yell at my crew on many occasions over the past 7 months as we were wearing masks (sometimes in uniform and sometimes without) I can't help but feel a little bit of karma striking down those individuals.

Would you characterise Victorians on the basis of the actions of the sovereign citizen movement?

Neither would I.

601 31st Jan 2021 12:44


Could be this hotel quarantine worker had been working more than 1 job,isnt that a big no no.
Second job as a ride share driver no less

compressor stall 31st Jan 2021 13:05


Originally Posted by currawong (Post 10980271)
Would you characterise Victorians on the basis of the actions of the sovereign citizen movement?

Neither would I.

No of course not and you know it. Did you notice my feelings were directed and limited to “those individuals” who by the way on every occasion did not appear “fringe” in any way. From the times we understood the words, the abuse was about going back east, not that COVID is a myth.

I chose not to direct any feelings of karma towards the two policemen on a compliance check who berated the sleeping crew for not answering their doors at lunchtime in a timely manner when the crew had arrived at dawn and were leaving that evening. Nor any other people involved in other “interesting” WA COVID experiences too numerous to list.

dr dre 31st Jan 2021 13:29


Originally Posted by Keg (Post 10980254)
It’s one of the most idiotic proposals known to man kind.

"one of the most idiotic proposals known to man kind"? Like I posted above, multiple prominent Australian epidemiologists were calling for a remote Quarantine program last year. This was also suggested in the National Review of Hotel Quarantine by the AHPPC last year:

The Australian Government has the capability to declare a human health response zone, as seen with evacuations of early quarantine cohorts to national facilities or State/Territory facilities gazetted for this purpose, including the Learmonth RAAF base or immigration detention facilities, and the Northern Territory’s Howard Springs facility


Introduces a whole bunch of risk transferring people with Covid from their point of arrival vast distances by bus, or air and then bus, to a remote location.
Not if you fly them directly there. There's plenty of remote airports with runways capable of international widebody flights in this country. Temporary accommodation, medical and CIQ can be constructed quickly if we have the will to do it.


Then you don’t have the critical mass of support workers required to run a proper quarantine system and need to ship people in.
The mining industry gets around this by paying their workers good money. Maybe they could work 2 weeks on, 2 weeks quarantine, 2 weeks off for a few months? Yes it would be expensive, but far less than the cost of all these major city outbreaks.


You also don’t have the same level of medical support available if someone gets seriously crook.
Temporary medical support at the remote location, aeromedical evacuation on standby to more intensive care facilities as well. Yes this does introduce a risk to a major city, but far far less than quarantining all travelers in a major city rather than a solitary case or two.


And if it does get out into the community in that ‘remote location’ you then have to shut down that entire quarantine facility because the odds are you don’t have any surge capability of other staff to come in and take the place of those staff now in isolation.
It would be a remote location where personnel are confined from outside communities. Surge capability would come at a cost but again far less than all these capital city breakouts that are detrimental to the economy.

I'm sure if this nation's professionals put their minds together (with the necessary funding) they could come up with workable solutions. Problem is the government just doesn't want to spend the money, or they're thinking the vaccine rollout is close enough now that minor outbreaks won't pose a large scale threat soon.

If you ask me housing international arrivals smack bang in the middle of major cities is an idiotic idea.

nonsense 31st Jan 2021 15:57


Originally Posted by Keg (Post 10980108)
I was in WA in December in that short period that NSW people were allowed to roam free. It was amazing seeing the lack of social distancing going on at pubs around the city.

Curiously I was in Sydney around the same time (2nd week of December), where I was also amazed at the lack of masks or distancing compared to Melbourne!

zanthrus 31st Jan 2021 16:01

An outbreak of 1. What a load of shit!
F U McCLown! I will not comply. Get F#%Ked!

aviation_enthus 31st Jan 2021 16:03


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10980241)
It amazes me to see the joy people are
heaving at seeing an outbreak in WA. I thought you all wanted the borders to open, so that things can go back to “normal”,and you can go flying again.

We get an event in WA, that has the potential to shut borders hard again, and you could not be happier. It’s very strange.

( remember, the individual in question, could have spread it to someone that has already flown to the Eastern States and it is currently spreading in the east.. I hope that’s not the case.)

Probably has something to do with the condescending attitude from the WA Premier in particular towards all the eastern states when they’ve had an outbreak.....

Even watching from overseas (as I am), most expat Aussies were waiting for WA to cop it. McGowan will be tested now, so his actions better back up all the talk of the last few months!!

The only certainty in this pandemic is if you haven’t had another outbreak yet it’s only a matter of time!!

SOPS 31st Jan 2021 18:42


Originally Posted by zanthrus (Post 10980414)
An outbreak of 1. What a load of shit!
F U McCLown! I will not comply. Get F#%Ked!

And if it breaks out.. and we get locked down for a 100 days and you can’t fly, .. you will be ok with that?

goodonyamate 31st Jan 2021 20:09


Originally Posted by aviation_enthus (Post 10980417)
Probably has something to do with the condescending attitude from the WA Premier in particular towards all the eastern states when they’ve had an outbreak.....

and from a few of the WA posters here.....

yep there’s a little bit of karma for being such pricks to the rest of Australia. Especially those with the belief that WAxit is a real thing and you’d survive or even prosper once off the funding of the rest of us. To you, I say ‘eat it’.

to the rest of WA, it sucks, 5 days will be over before you know it. Do some stuff around the house, hang with the kids, and let’s get back to work ASAP.

blubak 31st Jan 2021 21:44


Originally Posted by nonsense (Post 10980410)
Curiously I was in Sydney around the same time (2nd week of December), where I was also amazed at the lack of masks or distancing compared to Melbourne!

Even when the syd outbreak was at a critical level(just before xmas) i remember seeing hundreds of people at the fish markets & shopping centres not wearing masks or not standing apart.
I guess this is what happens though when people have a choice.
Im sure everyone is aware that in melbourne masks are still compulsory in shopping centres etc & its really odd to ever see someone not complying.
We would all rather not have to wear them but if it helps stop a case spreading or starting i am more than happy to do it & live as freely as possible.

dr dre 31st Jan 2021 22:17


Originally Posted by zanthrus (Post 10980414)
I will not comply. Get F#%Ked!

Great, could you please let us know how comfortable the seats are in the back of a paddy wagon, I’ve always wondered.

Also do they throw you into a big holding cell once you get to the station with a whole bunch of other arrestees just like in the movies?

By any chance could you also film your interaction with police when you are “not complying”, I do enjoy watching those “Karen” videos. Are you going to scream about your “constitutional rights” or claim you “don’t recognise the authority of the police”?

Chronic Snoozer 31st Jan 2021 22:28


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10980652)
Great, could you please let us know how comfortable the seats are in the back of a paddy wagon, I’ve always wondered.

Also do they throw you into a big holding cell once you get to the station with a whole bunch of other arrestees just like in the movies?

By any chance could you also film your interaction with police when you are “not complying”, I do enjoy watching those “Karen” videos. Are you going to scream about your “constitutional rights” or claim you “don’t recognise the authority of the police”?

Won’t need to. He’ll just flash his ASIC. ;-)

Ragnor 31st Jan 2021 22:55


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10980241)
It amazes me to see the joy people are
heaving at seeing an outbreak in WA.

Its not an outbreak, despite what McClown is feeding you.

Keg 1st Feb 2021 02:31


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10980307)
"

The Australian Government has the capability to declare a human health response zone, as seen with evacuations of early quarantine cohorts to national facilities or State/Territory facilities gazetted for this purpose, including the Learmonth RAAF base or immigration detention facilities, and the Northern Territory’s Howard Springs facility.



Howard Springs is already being used. It is hardly a ‘remote isolation facility’ with decent hospitals and a decent size city with all their capability about a 20 minute drive away. You’re proposing Learmonth for goodness sake. Anything near to them that can deal with the sort of things we’re talking about? Imagine the outcry were we quarantining people in the sort of accommodation available at a bare base.

Oh but now you want to have staff on standby in case there is an outbreak, using the Flying Doc and introducing massive risk for them if they need to move people to a capital city hospital, doing FIFO for the quarantine the workers on site for the two weeks they’re working, then quarantine them somewhere else for two weeks (and what about the workers looking after these people who are now quarantining, what are the rules for them), before allowing them a couple of weeks back in the community? Plus you now need to organise a bunch of repat flights from all corners of the globe direct to this ‘remote place’.

Sure, we can solve this problem with truck loads of money and about 12 months to get suitable accomodation available at Learmonth for your idea. In the mean time we do precisely what with those trying to get back into Australia?

Come back to me when you’re fair dinkum dre.



Keg 1st Feb 2021 02:34


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10980534)
And if it breaks out.. and we get locked down for a 100 days and you can’t fly, .. you will be ok with that?

Why should it ‘break out’? Northern beaches of Sydney had 30 cases in a single day on December 20. Meanwhile those of us in the Southern side of Sydney wore our masks, ensured social distancing, and got on with life. Less than six weeks later and we’ve had zero Covid for fourteen days. No lockdown required.

jrfsp 1st Feb 2021 02:57

I mean we stick refugees with complex medical needs on Christmas Island / PNG etc.....

We have indigenous people living with complex medical needs in extremely remote communities that health care managed to serve......

And the "Celebs" are allowed to isolate at the country houses.....But no lets stick the return travellers in the CBD what a good idea

dr dre 1st Feb 2021 03:16


Originally Posted by Keg (Post 10980729)
Plus you now need to organise a bunch of repat flights from all corners of the globe direct to this ‘remote place’.

In that case the government should contract these flights to Australian airlines who are familiar with operating into remote CTAFs, rather than mostly use foreign carriers as is done now. This would be a benefit to Australian pilot jobs.


about 12 months to get suitable accomodation available
The Chinese managed to build a temporary hospital within 10 days. Why can't we erect temporary accommodation within a similar time frame, even in a more remote location? Or use existing mine accommodation as is being proposed in Queensland? Doesn't have to be a 5 star hotel, tented accommodation could probably suffice for most returnees.

My main point is the current system of storing returned travelers in CBD hotels is not working. So unless we want this to be happening for most of the year we're going to have to think of a solution. Some more concrete form of quarantine will have to be implemented, otherwise these events will keep occurring. One simple thing could be the paying of quarantine staff a decent salary so they don't need a second job and a housing allowance so they can rent a place alone for the duration of their contract. There's not going to be a solution to this that doesn't involve spending money.


1A_Please 1st Feb 2021 03:23


Originally Posted by Keg (Post 10980729)

Howard Springs is already being used. It is hardly a ‘remote isolation facility’ with decent hospitals and a decent size city with all their capability about a 20 minute drive away. You’re proposing Learmonth for goodness sake. Anything near to them that can deal with the sort of things we’re talking about? Imagine the outcry were we quarantining people in the sort of accommodation available at a bare base.

Oh but now you want to have staff on standby in case there is an outbreak, using the Flying Doc and introducing massive risk for them if they need to move people to a capital city hospital, doing FIFO for the quarantine the workers on site for the two weeks they’re working, then quarantine them somewhere else for two weeks (and what about the workers looking after these people who are now quarantining, what are the rules for them), before allowing them a couple of weeks back in the community? Plus you now need to organise a bunch of repat flights from all corners of the globe direct to this ‘remote place’.

Sure, we can solve this problem with truck loads of money and about 12 months to get suitable accomodation available at Learmonth for your idea. In the mean time we do precisely what with those trying to get back into Australia?

Come back to me when you’re fair dinkum dre.

The problem is that remote camps just won't have the capacity. Up until last week, international arrivals into hotel quarantine were capped at 4127 per week. This may increase on 15/2 but it is equally likely that WA will ask for a temporary suspension whilst it sorts out its outbreak of 1!

To get remote camps accepting these sorts of numbers per week (and even then we accept that this isn't enough), we would need a remote camp capacity of over 8000. Currently Howard Springs has a capacity of 600 which limits it to 300 arrivals per week though the government has announced a plan to increase capacity to 850. Those 300 per week are outside the hotel quarantine capacity limit.



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