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No wonder most of Virgin have their applications in then |
Originally Posted by cessnapete
(Post 10148447)
The Cruise only pilot has no defined part in the aircraft operation, no Normal ,Abnormal or Emergency Checklist procedures involve a third man. Presumably if any in flight emergencies occur with the Capt in rest, he is immediately called, and retakes the front seat with the trained F/O, and the S/O again becomes an observer.
And, having had major event when operating 3 man, the SO made himself extremely useful whilst carrying out the jobs that you dismiss. |
Hello
Hii friends nice topic
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Is this the right place to ask, how long do you have to wait to hear back after qlink have done a reference check....
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Spent years in GA in Aus and PNG, 1.5 years flying regionals in USA and currently flying the A321 in Europe. I am wanting to come back to Aus with my family eventually and so considering either going to China first or coming back sooner. If one were to join QF tomorrow, what progression and ballpark salaries could be expected over the next 3-5 years assuming the market remained the same? If not wanting to stay an SO forever, what’s the current time to FO and then Captain if you are happy to move to junior base/fleet as required? Thanks |
Originally Posted by FL240
(Post 10153821)
Spent years in GA in Aus and PNG, 1.5 years flying regionals in USA and currently flying the A321 in Europe. I am wanting to come back to Aus with my family eventually and so considering either going to China first or coming back sooner. If one were to join QF tomorrow, what progression and ballpark salaries could be expected over the next 3-5 years assuming the market remained the same? If not wanting to stay an SO forever, what’s the current time to FO and then Captain if you are happy to move to junior base/fleet as required? Thanks Progression to widebody F/O or narrowbody CMD after that could take a lot of years (could be 12-15+), unless QF rapidly expand their fleet, which they are currently not showing any signs of doing. Movement to East Coast 737 F/O possible after a couple of years depending on movement and recruitment. Things have improved recently but we currently have guys who joined the airline single and are now missing their kid’s 16th birthday because they’re doing their final F/O check on a widebody. |
Whilst there are people who will get FO slots almost immediately, they will then spend a long time in that seat.
Assuming the airline neither expands nor contracts, then the average time in each seat will be related to the proportion of pilots in each rank. So, as it is probably roughly 33% each, then the average career would be one third in each seat. So, I'd suggest that the 12 year SO is very much the average...and the 7 year wide body Captains are very much ancient history/mythology at this point. The uneven recruitment has built lots of bumps into that though, and the people who joined in the expansion of around 1985 are hitting retirement age. |
Originally Posted by Derfred
(Post 10153877)
Others may have more accurate figures but I would suggest Perth 737 F/O within 12 months (or potentially sooner after joining for those with jet experience) at AU$170-200K plus Superannuation. Progression to widebody F/O or narrowbody CMD after that could take a lot of years (could be 12-15+), unless QF rapidly expand their fleet, which they are currently not showing any signs of doing. Movement to East Coast 737 F/O possible after a couple of years depending on movement and recruitment. Things have improved recently but we currently have guys who joined the airline single and are now missing their kid’s 16th birthday because they’re doing their final F/O check on a widebody. |
Whilst time to FO on a widebody will never be quick, I'm not sure looking at those recently promoted and comparing time frames is entirely useful.
16+ years encompassing a period of no recruitment for nearly 8 years wouldn't have helped. It will be interesting to see time to promotion time frames in 5 years when the suggested attrition rates are expected to begin to bite.... |
Consider also that the number of retirements over the next ten years will be far greater than the last ten. There are still a number of pilots going to 65 (and beyond) but according to recent figures I saw, the average retirement age has been around 62 - and there are many reaching that age in the next ten years. The demise of the 744 may well accelerate that further.
I'd be interested to see a breakdown of Pilot's ages at the minute. I suspect there'd be say 40% in the 50+ bracket, 40% in the 35-50 bracket and only a relative few in the under 35 bracket. That suggests that a young person (say 25-early 30's) joining now may have a longish period in the S/O and junior F/O (ie: PER or ADL based) ranks, not long in the middle and a good period as a Captain. |
Originally Posted by 34R
(Post 10154205)
Whilst time to FO on a widebody will never be quick, I'm not sure looking at those recently promoted and comparing time frames is entirely useful.
16+ years encompassing a period of no recruitment for nearly 8 years wouldn't have helped. It will be interesting to see time to promotion time frames in 5 years when the suggested attrition rates are expected to begin to bite.... Long way to relocate, but in UK, my Airline in last couple of years recruiting DEP F/O direct on A380/B744/787/777. Wide Body F/O from day one!! |
Originally Posted by C441
(Post 10154233)
Consider also that the number of retirements over the next ten years will be far greater than the last ten. There are still a number of pilots going to 65 (and beyond) but according to recent figures I saw, the average retirement age has been around 62 - and there are many reaching that age in the next ten years. The demise of the 744 may well accelerate that further.
I'd be interested to see a breakdown of Pilot's ages at the minute. I suspect there'd be say 40% in the 50+ bracket, 40% in the 35-50 bracket and only a relative few in the under 35 bracket. That suggests that a young person (say 25-early 30's) joining now may have a longish period in the S/O and junior F/O (ie: PER or ADL based) ranks, not long in the middle and a good period as a Captain. |
Within about 6-7 years 50% of qantas pilots will be aged in excess of 60! |
Ceesnapete, details of the airline please. Recruiting?
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Originally Posted by goose1
(Post 10154560)
Within about 6-7 years 50% of qantas pilots will be aged in excess of 60! |
Within about 6-7 years 50% of qantas pilots will be aged in excess of 60! If the above is true, if QF have 2000 pilots,( I have no idea) and if the average age of retirement is 62, then you are training 100 pilots off the street a year for the next nine years just to stand still. ( any plans for expansion?) Of course with every retirement comes a command training requirement and an F/O training requirement as well......but wait, we’ll need someone to train and check them so we’ll have to run quite a few TRI courses quick smart. There is going to be one heck of a lot of training going on by people who are not yet trainers. interesting times ahead for sure. |
Originally Posted by Trigger Happy
(Post 10154581)
Ceesnapete, details of the airline please. Recruiting?
For a LH Widebody DEP. 2000 hrs ATPL. at least a 1000 hours recent on Jets over 25Tonne or Turbo prop over 50T. i.e. suitable for zero hour hour Base Training on Level D sims. Cadet Pilots from accredited Training Schools taken with less experience, 250 hours+ total for SH types min Frozen ATPL. MEP/IR. |
Originally Posted by cessnapete
(Post 10154825)
BA, in last 2/3 years targeted recruiting due an acute shortage on LH types.(HR cockup!) BA pay is more directed to Seniority not just size of aircraft.
For a LH Widebody DEP. 2000 hrs ATPL. at least a 1000 hours recent on Jets over 25Tonne or Turbo prop over 50T. i.e. suitable for zero hour hour Base Training on Level D sims. Cadet Pilots from accredited Training Schools taken with less experience, 250 hours+ total for SH types min Frozen ATPL. MEP/IR. They're both legacy carriers, part of a dying breed, hence why people want to work for both. Having said that, you still need to get in! |
Cessnaplate, we need to compare like for like though. A PP 34 BA LH DEP (New joiner straight to LH in BA) will net less than a new joiner SO at QF. I would hazard a guess, they will work harder, suffer less bidding satisfaction due to seniority rather than rotating bidding, and have a much more expensive cost of living if living close to their base. BA is only legacy in name now. For a decent salary and lifestyle most would be better at EZY, Ryanair, and various other low cost carriers.
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Crikey. BA is more than fine. This thread is probably more for those that want to live in Oz though
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