As I’ve stated in a different thread, assigning a seniority number prior to starting would require a change to the LH EBA in my understanding. It’s not a simple fix.

But why would internals get a seniority number when externals do not

Is not having "exclusive" application processes for internals only, no sim, entitlement
to final interview , guaranteed selection into process, entitlement to interview with 1/5 test score
enough of an advantage ?

It doesn't take a lot of working out to figure if you want mainline join a subsidiary & that's why at least 50% of SO have come from subsids

& the deck of cards got moved their way even closer with test score not considered for interview & now exclusive "internal only" annual hiring process to mainline

Humbly apologise for suggesting against "the narrative" , Yr humble Serf

were these the VA737 and Cathay guys?

No one is asking for favouritism in the selection process or any of that. QF can obviously have choice of the best possible applicants and so they should.
What internals are asking for is to be respected for the years of service they have provided to the group over some outsider off the street. If Jetstar or Qlink etc can't release someone because they are not sufficiently crewed, (let's be honest, this is purely due to their incompetence, poor terms and conditions or both) and need to hold people back for years, that those crew who were good enough to pass the selection process are not unfairly punished.
For example, someone at Jetstar has spent years being taken advantage of and screwed by a horrible management that see you as nothing but a piece of garbage, that was good enough to pass the process is screwed once more whilst someone who has contributed nothing to Qantas is forever in front of them. It's not that hard to understand.

​​​​​​

You’re right, it should be different. Sadly it’s not. The subsidiaries role in QFs eyes are to provide an IR wedge, nothing more.

Jetstar was the first, but as we are seeing, won’t be the last group used and abused in order to drive an IR agenda.

Hopefully we get new direction once we have a new CEO.

Pilots should be under no illusion….
 

The “Qantas Group” is a construct of the corporate levels in Mascot.

Pilots are merely employees of:
- Mainline,
- Eastern,
- Sunstate,
- Jetconnect,
- Jetstar Aust,
- Jetstar NZ,
- Network,
- Alliance,
- etc….
Each have their own seniority lists & processes. No one has ‘rights’ to opportunities in other entities.

Everything discussed/suggested here is opinion. But any- & everything done by Qantas Group IR/HR is a cynical yet targeted measure intended to minimise costs/attrition/training burden overall. I feel for the ‘-linkers’ with starts dates two years hence, but there are succinct options proposed throughout this thread & none of them are easy for aspiring Mainline pilots.

That’s the reality as I see it. Good luck all.:hmm:

A LOA would cover it.

Never without controversy mind you

I did hear that this at least one dash pilot that holds a mainline #

Why are you talking about seniority?I thought QF management have decided to do away with it? That will create a real S!it fight.It might be better to go to VA if you want a seniority system and known promotion!!

what are you talking about? QF does follow seniority strictly, during COVID mostly the senior pilots were furloughed 😂

The issue here is that what is loyalty worth?? With the world pilot market busting open you are going to see pilots in their late 20's early 30's with heavy jet international experience some even with commands. Not all will want to stay overseas, or their partners will want to return, so the question is what is someone with direct relevant experience worth to QF vs someone who has never flown a jet but is loyal to the corporation?

Honestly I still think you are better off ditching any thought of loyalty and just make move into a jet ASAP

There are quite a few pilots with a "Mainline #" who joined pre-Covid, and then were threatened with redundancy unless they took Leave Without Pay (LWOP).:hmm: Periods of up to five years were agreed by QF.

Many of those pilots returned to their previous or other employers (eg -Links or RAAF), which were less-affected by Covid, and resumed higher-than-SO pay and responsibility... secure in the knowledge that they now had that elusive 'Mainline #' in their back pocket. Many such pilots are yet to return to Mainline; what's the hurry when they have a seniority number, and to restart as an SO would be a substantial pay cut. Eminently sensible!!!

Ironically, QF is now apparently pleading with people to return before their agreed LWOP term is expired. Strangely, there is not the same 'desperation' from pilots to return any more... an 'own goal' by QF? Time will tell.:rolleyes:

ClearIce " Nobody asking for favouriticism" - well their is massive favouriticism atm

Well you should put it to QF that everyone gets evaluated same manner such as

• No exclusive annual intake for "internals"
• Internals do not get processed first - like 2016
• All applications are evaluated on equal merit - not automatic right for internals to get selected for test, if only 20/25% of externals get test same for internals
• Internals have to do all elements of selection , including sim
• Internals have to achieve same test thresholds to proceed , 2022 got interview & job & onto hold file with 1/5 , externals hire 4/5

"Found to have passed selection"

• How is getting a 1/5 for test a "pass" same external would not get through the door

I don't know if its legal / not -legal for QF to have to massively different standards & processes for hire of pilots , but that's certainly what you have
, so difficult to understand the relentless complain

It might well be that QF can lawfully move their Pilots from subsidiary to Mainline without any selection process , suspect they probably know what
they are doing - so all is above board

But to pretend that internals/externals compete on equal terms is incorrect in every way that you could be incorrect

Everyone knows that many of the internals who have joined since 2016 were rejected by mainline more than once in the 2000s

Goodluck to them , their ship came in

But not so goodluck for the military instructor guy , or someone who was jet LHS overseas & "done it all" who was among the 75 % who didn't
even get sent a test

To pretend QF choses best candidates as Pilots with new process - couldn't be more incorrect. They are hiring internals who have often been rejected multiple times , 2000s or 2016/18 whatever & have turned up to their entitlement to have an interview interview ,with the dizzying test score of 1/5. I say well played, but just don't kid yourself that would have had a hope in hell in competing on level playing field

Why do the good folk seem so opposed to letting others know easiest pathway to Mainline

Think i just answered my own question

Waiting for the parrot like reiteration of "the Narrative" ; Its just so unfair for the QF group pilots , QF group pilots get treated like dirt, if I told you once I have told you 100 times if
you want to join QF mainline never ever ever join a QF group airline , Join Rex Virgin or Air NZ & you will get to mainline much more quickly

Again with the fractions :E

Makiko, is the full stop button on your keyboard unserviceable?

.

Hope you don't rant like that in a control seat ?

How do you take this QF Group testing seriously and credibly when we all know plenty of pilots who cheated with the process? Ranting about merit, fairness and a brilliance of those who got through looks a bit silly to me.

Its difficult to take anything that comes out of Coward St seriously…

The process makes a lot more sense when you think of it as a valve rather than a filter.

I am a QF pilot and I’m part of the recruitment team.

To see RAAF pilots be rejected on the basis that they are “not competitive enough” but a 600 hour single Engine girl gets given the job is enough for me to say, QF don’t hire the best pilots available.

if you get in, it’s because you’re a chick. If you’re a bloke, you’re one of the lucky ones.

Well since you’ve exposed a potential hollowness in the processes, you’d be morally corrupt to continue in your position as a recruiter.