To soon ? :E


I apologize for contributing to the thread drift. Now, back to the topic of hopeful young thrusters and a kangaroo (that really didn’t sound quite how I meant it).

Haha, spelling police on Prune...would love to be sitting on your flightdeck, not. Get a life

JPJP can you please cite some of these "numerous" Asian crashes that have involved MPL/Cadet pilots please?

Thanks

Fly Safe
PJ

Not really. You were implying that the new generation of "autopilot babysitters" (ie cadets) are more likely to spear planes into the ground. I pointed out that pilots from varied backgrounds can spear jets in and save them through skills and quick thinking (yes the BA captain was a cadet, most in Europe are -
http://booking.virtualaviation.co.uk...structors.html)

If those guys in SFO didn't have a clue about hand flying and didn't understand systems logic that points to poor training and a poor culture of discouraging hand flying. That won't be rectified by not hiring cadets, if you read into a history of Korean aviation a lot of the issues that caused major crashes in the 80's and 90's had to do with former military pilots not fitting in with airline culture.

One thing is clear, cadet programs and ICUS are purely a result of cost saving efforts. Not safety.[/QUOTE]

The JQ cadets get paid the same as direct entry pilots, have their type rating paid for and get 200hrs of line training instead of the standard 100.

They are more expensive to employ not cheaper!

Around 40 going through their training at Moorabbin as we speak.

Line training on revenue flights is hardly a significant cost.

Don’t they also get put on as junior FO’s on lesser pay until they reach like 1500hrs? Unlike a DEFO who will automatically start on normal FO pay?

Nope, the JFO payscale was abolished in the latest (2015) EBA. All cadets are level 1 FO from day 1.

I always laugh at these comments, especially when not directed at me.

EY Airbus, what his lack of grammar and spelling indicate is a lazy and not well educated mind. Slippery Pete was pointing that out not because he missed a letter here or there/their/they're.

I once watched two senior pilots arguing over the meaning of a paragraph in the CAR and it became obvious to me that one of them had no idea what the word "notwithstanding" meant, which was causing the confusion.

You can pour scorn on people who point this stuff out but in the context of QF dropping education requirements and the importance of literacy and comprehension given the large volume of reading we need to do I think it is important. Given the standard of writing I see in tech logs..."guage" "portable water" etc some people need help. So when I hear people at EBA time compare our profession to doctors and lawyers I laugh out loud.

Not a well educated mind?? That’s a bit unfair don’t you think? Lazy? Come on, we aren’t writing letters to the Queen here....more like responding on a smartphone with your non-preferred hand, whilst your other one is busy doing something far more important, like stirring a pot of lentils or pouring kitty litter into the litter tray.

ICAO level 6................... :ugh: :O :)

Is anyone going to about anything productive which has relevance to this thread?

One Australian airline which had a reasonably successful ICUS program decided to use it as industrial leverage, banning it overnight to pressure FOs into signing a rubbish EBA offer.

Not only did the offer get voted down, now they’re massively short of upgradeable crew as a result.

Stupidity at its finest.

As for the cadet vs non cadet debate, it’s been done to death in PPrune a million times. They both have advantages and disadvantages.

Looks like external recruitment has opened up again today.

Good luck to all those applying, with the new minimums it will be just as competitive as before.

It's a long process, but well worth it for those that make the cut!

Anyone holding onto to the Australian exceptionalism as it applies to a pilot shortage may need to re think the validity of their position.

Qantas are short..

The group is short. Mainline isn’t... yet. They will be but another year or two I reckon when the shortage is really biting.

The bigger issue is the model of opening up applications and taking 18 months to process the applicants. In the interim there are a number of great candidates who have already moved on to other airlines.

Keg,

Why does it take 18 months to process applicants ?

Any info on how many "competitive" applications the company has on file ?

G’day Bafanguy. Once upon a time Qantas was always open for recruitment. You could submit an application at any time and they’d process you. As a result of people applying when they became qualified (or tired of where they were working) the system was always processing 30-40* applications per month for the 8-16 positions available. (*Not sure of exact numbers).

After not having recruited from January 2009 until August 2016 Qantas opened up applications processing former cadets and letter of intent holders from 2009 in June/ July 2016 as well as both internal and external applicants from about September 2016. There were about 1300 applications to process- not a very big number really considering the 9 year gap- and it’s simply taken until November last year to work through them all.

If Rated De has been forwarded the email then he too has the projected recruitment numbers for 2018. I’d post them but last time I posted information also available to the other 2200 Qantas pilots Flight Ops Management received a call from another department complaining. So sadly someone else will need to post that up. For the same reason I can’t comment on the numbers still on hold.

So if PPRUNERs want the latest info, they’ll have to get to a roadshow that Qantas will be running around the nation.

But Keg, will the roadshows just be run by HR numpties churning out their idealism?

Why does Qantas need to do these roadshows? And I noticed the other day that apparently you don’t even need ATPL subjects now!

morno

Yeah, road shows, wtf