Virgin pilots
Wasn’t the 12 DDOs a trade off for less MCG for EA21 due to COVID? Now for higher MCG from a business point of view I don’t think any company would increase considerable amount of money for free. That’s the reality.
Last edited by T8348; 14th Apr 2024 at 22:39.
After seeing so many negative comments, first of all I respect all of these opinions, however they are all subjective and only applies to individual circumstances. In this case I’ll throw in some of my subjective opinions that suits my own circumstances which I believe will cover a lot of pilots at VA especially poor FOs.
That is great someone can afford take pay cut and grab extra DDOs, it’s good on you that have achieved financial freedom, but for most of us we still have years of mortgage to pay, rent, child support you name it. So for myself I can’t afford go PIA. And you have to look it from a business point of view, no company will just increase money especially the amount they are offering without gaining anything back, it’s against any business principle hence will not go anywhere. 11/12 days off is already a very luxury deal no one else in Australia have, yet this current 12/13 DDOs arrangement has always been a temporary measure induced by COVID. From both AFAP and company’s recent communication I can see the management is trying to boost the pay by some creative way while not breaking the mandates from their boss, I’m not some kind of company man, I’m just stating my observation, it looks their intentions are good which union representatives have the same view. If you look at the offer as a whole it’s really a win for us. And you can’t use some extreme examples from the US to demand some massive increase of pay in here, it won’t work, better just go to the US, simple. Just look at the comparison email/posts union sent to us, from a factual standpoint, you will find it’s a fair deal, not perfect but fair. If we vote it down and it goes to fair work I don’t think they will do us any favour. I totally support network guys doing their PIA because their deal is extremely poor, if I was there I’d do the same thing. But if ours goes to fair work they will just laugh at us. At the end of the day you also have to think about the company, will VA remain competitive to survive so we can still have a stable aviation career or we just make it bottom up and go stack the shelves in Coles or Woolworths? QF’s got all the favouritism from the government so no matter how bad their services are they get to survive, we don’t have that luxury. So look at the big picture also. If the extra DDOs are important to you then you can always strategically go sick without pay because you have achieved financial freedom, don’t you? Otherwise with this offer we have the potential to make some good money, and most importantly the base pay will form a solid foundation so you don’t have to worry about your liabilities when the month is quite there’s not many drafts available.
In a perfect world I’d want a million dollars a year, plus only having to go to work when I want to blah blah blah, but this is reality, after being through COVID worked various jobs outside aviation, I’ve seen much worse ways the management treats their people while the workers getting peanuts. I understand we’ve invested a lot to get to this point but nothing has been guaranteed, and still will not be, so don’t take it as granted that you deserve better, you probably just don’t realise how good you have because you haven’t seen worse.
Just my 2 cents.
That is great someone can afford take pay cut and grab extra DDOs, it’s good on you that have achieved financial freedom, but for most of us we still have years of mortgage to pay, rent, child support you name it. So for myself I can’t afford go PIA. And you have to look it from a business point of view, no company will just increase money especially the amount they are offering without gaining anything back, it’s against any business principle hence will not go anywhere. 11/12 days off is already a very luxury deal no one else in Australia have, yet this current 12/13 DDOs arrangement has always been a temporary measure induced by COVID. From both AFAP and company’s recent communication I can see the management is trying to boost the pay by some creative way while not breaking the mandates from their boss, I’m not some kind of company man, I’m just stating my observation, it looks their intentions are good which union representatives have the same view. If you look at the offer as a whole it’s really a win for us. And you can’t use some extreme examples from the US to demand some massive increase of pay in here, it won’t work, better just go to the US, simple. Just look at the comparison email/posts union sent to us, from a factual standpoint, you will find it’s a fair deal, not perfect but fair. If we vote it down and it goes to fair work I don’t think they will do us any favour. I totally support network guys doing their PIA because their deal is extremely poor, if I was there I’d do the same thing. But if ours goes to fair work they will just laugh at us. At the end of the day you also have to think about the company, will VA remain competitive to survive so we can still have a stable aviation career or we just make it bottom up and go stack the shelves in Coles or Woolworths? QF’s got all the favouritism from the government so no matter how bad their services are they get to survive, we don’t have that luxury. So look at the big picture also. If the extra DDOs are important to you then you can always strategically go sick without pay because you have achieved financial freedom, don’t you? Otherwise with this offer we have the potential to make some good money, and most importantly the base pay will form a solid foundation so you don’t have to worry about your liabilities when the month is quite there’s not many drafts available.
In a perfect world I’d want a million dollars a year, plus only having to go to work when I want to blah blah blah, but this is reality, after being through COVID worked various jobs outside aviation, I’ve seen much worse ways the management treats their people while the workers getting peanuts. I understand we’ve invested a lot to get to this point but nothing has been guaranteed, and still will not be, so don’t take it as granted that you deserve better, you probably just don’t realise how good you have because you haven’t seen worse.
Just my 2 cents.
Good to see on the line more are seeing this proposal for what it is.
a smoke screen with a reduction in Terms and conditions. .
DDOs reducing from (min 12 off or 13 Off under 65 hours.) to no more than 11/12.
trying to call allowances your salary. It’s not !
after lying on the Last EBA to get the pay cut they are planning no CMS for the lifestyle/work balance they promised.
reducing your money for breaching DDO. (Up to 2 hours into your day off you get 2 hours pay instead of the 5 hours your get now) … why should they get that?
saves them money that’s why.
You shouldn’t have go backwards and sell certain conditions just to make up for the previous pay cut which was based on a lie. (we will give you a fully functional automated CMS so you can have more control and a better work/life balance). Gone!
a smoke screen with a reduction in Terms and conditions. .
DDOs reducing from (min 12 off or 13 Off under 65 hours.) to no more than 11/12.
trying to call allowances your salary. It’s not !
after lying on the Last EBA to get the pay cut they are planning no CMS for the lifestyle/work balance they promised.
reducing your money for breaching DDO. (Up to 2 hours into your day off you get 2 hours pay instead of the 5 hours your get now) … why should they get that?
saves them money that’s why.
You shouldn’t have go backwards and sell certain conditions just to make up for the previous pay cut which was based on a lie. (we will give you a fully functional automated CMS so you can have more control and a better work/life balance). Gone!
Last edited by Olive00; 16th Apr 2024 at 12:59.
11/12 days off is already a very luxury deal no one else in Australia have.
yet this current 12/13 DDOs arrangement has always been a temporary measure induced by COVID.
Personally I think we should call the company's bluff keep 12 DDO and give back drafts. Force their hand to sort out their crewing issues once and for all or alternatively they give them back to us for nothing and keep 12 DDO because that's the only way they can run the airline.
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Thread Starter
For me there is no wage rise , as I have stated above this pay ONLY WITH the inclusion of the two add ons comes up to the old EA pay of July 2019 with CP added, So NO REAL wage increase. We need at least 20% on top of this pay to be competitive and fairly paid. We have fallen far behind some other Airlines pay and many many in the wider workforce. Our current pay and conditions is a joke , the Proposed EA is only marginally better.
And **** me 11/12 days off as a Pilot shift worker is unacceptable , it should be at Least 13 for the reason above. One small good thing , 8 PDOs is good for Pilots and the business.
Whilst I realise for a few new FOs this deal looks ok, but guys it’s not and the vast majority of Pilots I have spoken with over the past 3 days on line agree. They are not happy with the proposed EA as it stands. Unfortunately pilots have been paying for some time for a service that is not being provided. That is , paying the Union to represent them.
They all say ‘ I hope the TWU can save it. ‘ The AFAP didn’t. And yes the delegates worked hard BUT having talked with one recently at length, it is apparent the Stockholm Syndrome has prevailed. They talk that the company will go broke or pull out if we do note vote it up , REALLY.
You guys have lost sight of the fact that VA has lost so many pilots and other areas of staff to overseas and local companies. Yet some of u seek their counsel re Pilot positions.!,,
And who ever passes my comments here on to 👨✈️; three things 1, What a dick head u are 4 doing this 2, tell your associate it’s none of his ****inbuss why I still work, 3 it’s not personal it just business.
Ok mate.
We need a pay scale that reflects and recognises time with the company, an MCG and min rest that reduces fatigue and improves life style. All this will help the business in the end.
This new EA will only make life style , sickness and fatigue worse.
And to finish , as I said again above, the SMART pilots will VOTE NO to this current Proposal.
No one should have to work more than 60 FLT hrs per roster to earn a good wage , no one should have to work drafts to earn a good wage. All pilots need at least min rest at all ports to be at least 15 hrs . AFAP you have a life style, give it to those who pay your wages. Do your job .
The proposal before us is CRAP .
Totally unacceptable.
Vote it down and ask the AFAP to do their job .
ps.
i want to see a company that pays it staff at all levels the best in Australian aviation, that has very good working conditions, again the best in Australian aviation. I want to see management be totally transparent, engaged and fair to all staff. I want to see a CEO who leads by example, who understands real basic principles in how a business runs and works , a CEO who is seen on site and is really knowledgeable passionate caring and understanding of their workforce.
A CEO who wants VA to go to the Top not only at the customer level BUT at the employee level.
i want see the Business make a good return on its investment, A truely good CEO CAN do that and be the best for its staff.
And yes they are out there, I truly hope we get one , 🥳
Let’s cut to the chase, what’s happening now is we have CEO that unfortunately does not understand the above and or is not allowed to be that CEO, either way it then filters down to HR , Unions and our CP.
They may not or may agree with this bad policy, but they have to implement it.
Get a CEO who does and The REAL WONDERFUL can happen. And there is so many business out there doing just that.
Hummm , SYD tower Trump 803.,,,!,,, We’ll maybe not. OR 🤪
The long hrs we work, the rules we work under , the lack of life style because poor rostering and uncompetitive pay are ALL wrong , the vast majority of pilots know this, Tell the delegates and Union , vote this EA down , Vote NO.
And **** me 11/12 days off as a Pilot shift worker is unacceptable , it should be at Least 13 for the reason above. One small good thing , 8 PDOs is good for Pilots and the business.
Whilst I realise for a few new FOs this deal looks ok, but guys it’s not and the vast majority of Pilots I have spoken with over the past 3 days on line agree. They are not happy with the proposed EA as it stands. Unfortunately pilots have been paying for some time for a service that is not being provided. That is , paying the Union to represent them.
They all say ‘ I hope the TWU can save it. ‘ The AFAP didn’t. And yes the delegates worked hard BUT having talked with one recently at length, it is apparent the Stockholm Syndrome has prevailed. They talk that the company will go broke or pull out if we do note vote it up , REALLY.
You guys have lost sight of the fact that VA has lost so many pilots and other areas of staff to overseas and local companies. Yet some of u seek their counsel re Pilot positions.!,,
And who ever passes my comments here on to 👨✈️; three things 1, What a dick head u are 4 doing this 2, tell your associate it’s none of his ****inbuss why I still work, 3 it’s not personal it just business.
Ok mate.
We need a pay scale that reflects and recognises time with the company, an MCG and min rest that reduces fatigue and improves life style. All this will help the business in the end.
This new EA will only make life style , sickness and fatigue worse.
And to finish , as I said again above, the SMART pilots will VOTE NO to this current Proposal.
No one should have to work more than 60 FLT hrs per roster to earn a good wage , no one should have to work drafts to earn a good wage. All pilots need at least min rest at all ports to be at least 15 hrs . AFAP you have a life style, give it to those who pay your wages. Do your job .
The proposal before us is CRAP .
Totally unacceptable.
Vote it down and ask the AFAP to do their job .
ps.
i want to see a company that pays it staff at all levels the best in Australian aviation, that has very good working conditions, again the best in Australian aviation. I want to see management be totally transparent, engaged and fair to all staff. I want to see a CEO who leads by example, who understands real basic principles in how a business runs and works , a CEO who is seen on site and is really knowledgeable passionate caring and understanding of their workforce.
A CEO who wants VA to go to the Top not only at the customer level BUT at the employee level.
i want see the Business make a good return on its investment, A truely good CEO CAN do that and be the best for its staff.
And yes they are out there, I truly hope we get one , 🥳
Let’s cut to the chase, what’s happening now is we have CEO that unfortunately does not understand the above and or is not allowed to be that CEO, either way it then filters down to HR , Unions and our CP.
They may not or may agree with this bad policy, but they have to implement it.
Get a CEO who does and The REAL WONDERFUL can happen. And there is so many business out there doing just that.
Hummm , SYD tower Trump 803.,,,!,,, We’ll maybe not. OR 🤪
The long hrs we work, the rules we work under , the lack of life style because poor rostering and uncompetitive pay are ALL wrong , the vast majority of pilots know this, Tell the delegates and Union , vote this EA down , Vote NO.
Last edited by farrari; 16th Apr 2024 at 18:44.
I want to see management be totally transparent, engaged and fair to all staff. I want to see a CEO who leads by example, who understands real basic principles in how a business runs and works , a CEO who is seen on site and is really knowledgeable passionate caring and understanding of their workforce.
A CEO who wants VA to go to the Top not only at the customer level BUT at the employee level.
i want see the Business make a good return on its investment, A truely good CEO CAN do that and be the best for its staff.
A CEO who wants VA to go to the Top not only at the customer level BUT at the employee level.
i want see the Business make a good return on its investment, A truely good CEO CAN do that and be the best for its staff.
You are owned by Private Equity. Did you forget about that?
You do know how these monsters operate right?
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Exactly my point . And I will add I want to see a strong professional union doing its job to get back pilots the Professional level of pay and conditions they deserve for their work , as it was many many years ago.
At present we have this Coles Woolworths mentality, pay low if u don’t like it leave , replace with young new people who accept it for a while then leave.
At present we have this Coles Woolworths mentality, pay low if u don’t like it leave , replace with young new people who accept it for a while then leave.
Last edited by farrari; 16th Apr 2024 at 18:53.
What an interesting thread. Here you have a person that is enthusiastic about the company and its performance, plus crew conditions, one that has helped negotiate on 777 EBA's, only to be denigrated by fellow pilots.
Attacked online in numerous forums, by check pilots and union rep's.
Reported to the CP by anonymous posters here and line Captains, because he had the guts to say what he thinks is wrong.
VA is a basket case. Has been for many years. The amount of self preservation by Flight Ops management and training department is truly disgusting. Top that with the some of the pilots here thinking it's a good deal, is just incredible.
I think the AFAP is either afraid or unable to negotiate an agreement outside of the status quo. Australian pilots have suffered from poor negotiation and direction from all unions. Not saying that some of the reps haven't given their all, especially in their own time, but they have been "directed" to go with the flow.
After 20+ years of VA, I am glad I don't have to share the cockpit or skies, with some of you. The way you have attacked the thread author, you should hang your head in shame, but you won't.
Attacked online in numerous forums, by check pilots and union rep's.
Reported to the CP by anonymous posters here and line Captains, because he had the guts to say what he thinks is wrong.
VA is a basket case. Has been for many years. The amount of self preservation by Flight Ops management and training department is truly disgusting. Top that with the some of the pilots here thinking it's a good deal, is just incredible.
I think the AFAP is either afraid or unable to negotiate an agreement outside of the status quo. Australian pilots have suffered from poor negotiation and direction from all unions. Not saying that some of the reps haven't given their all, especially in their own time, but they have been "directed" to go with the flow.
After 20+ years of VA, I am glad I don't have to share the cockpit or skies, with some of you. The way you have attacked the thread author, you should hang your head in shame, but you won't.
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VA is a basket case. Has been for many years. The amount of self preservation by Flight Ops management and training department is truly disgusting. Top that with the some of the pilots here thinking it's a good deal, is just incredible.
Virgin had an opportunity to reset itself, in the Flight Ops department, during the bankruptcy. They didn’t do that. Should have, could have, but didn’t. The trick is, you need to get rid of everyone. All of them. The whole lot. They didn’t, and the cancer remains.
The Virgin turnaround transformation story has been going on for 15 years. They have recently advised another 3-5 years in transformation still to come. So nearly 2 decades in transformation. Flight Ops should have the latest and greatest in everything! So much time to achieve so much! Hold on a minute…
Again with the attacks. Shows how pathetic and petty some individuals are at VA.
Some of you doing the attacking, need to reflect on your own character and abilities. I know, I have flown with most of you in the left and right seats.
Some of you doing the attacking, need to reflect on your own character and abilities. I know, I have flown with most of you in the left and right seats.
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Thread Starter
Interesting having worked the last 5 days straight and therefore having the opportunity to find out reactions to this new EA , 8 out 10 want it re looked at before a vote, ie the delegates to tell the Union to not endorse it as it needs work.
They generally do not want industrial action , rather common sense to prevail for a better outcome they feel they deserve and the Union has not delivered on.
They generally do not want industrial action , rather common sense to prevail for a better outcome they feel they deserve and the Union has not delivered on.
Your posts are getting harder and harder to read. Why not take a Bex and maybe ask ChatGPT to translate your words. 
ps
All tHe dYsFuNcTiOnAl FoMaTtInG ... , eRrOr$ iN yoUr PosTs...,, lEt al0ne , on Te@mS .
ps
All tHe dYsFuNcTiOnAl FoMaTtInG ... , eRrOr$ iN yoUr PosTs...,, lEt al0ne , on Te@mS .
Last edited by Saab Dastard; 19th Apr 2024 at 16:54. Reason: Name removed
do you understand the concept of a PUBLIC forum?? The OP even named the thread “Virgin Pilots”…. How hard would it be for ANYONE to read this thread. A thread in which the OP has outed himself… if he doesn’t understand how or why, that’s his problem…
I have no connection with Virgin but have read along with this thread for a while out of interest for the Aus industry.
Im glad to see someone say this. Some of the posts on this thread are shameful and considering it’s a thread that Airline pilots are posting on, embarrassing.
If you make gutter level ad hominems in a debate, you expose your own short comings, not those of the person you are debating. The statements expose an inability to form a logical retort, a lack of maturity, and an excess of emotion.
The way you have attacked the thread author, you should hang your head in shame, but you won't
If you make gutter level ad hominems in a debate, you expose your own short comings, not those of the person you are debating. The statements expose an inability to form a logical retort, a lack of maturity, and an excess of emotion.
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Im glad to see someone say this. Some of the posts on this thread are shameful and considering it’s a thread that Airline pilots are posting on, embarrassing.
If you make gutter level ad hominems in a debate, you expose your own short comings, not those of the person you are debating. The statements expose an inability to form a logical retort, a lack of maturity, and an excess of emotion.
Im glad to see someone say this. Some of the posts on this thread are shameful and considering it’s a thread that Airline pilots are posting on, embarrassing.
If you make gutter level ad hominems in a debate, you expose your own short comings, not those of the person you are debating. The statements expose an inability to form a logical retort, a lack of maturity, and an excess of emotion.
If you make gutter level ad hominems in a debate, you expose your own short comings, not those of the person you are debating. The statements expose an inability to form a logical retort, a lack of maturity, and an excess of emotion.
Many can not see the woods for trees.
Any Pilot, management ones aside, who have committed to Japan Flt’s are just plane dumb or greedy.
Here we had a wonderful business opportunity to negotiate some better options for ALL VA pilots.
And now with out any sign of a professional strong union the way forward is dead .
Well done , really.
Any Pilot, management ones aside, who have committed to Japan Flt’s are just plane dumb or greedy.
Here we had a wonderful business opportunity to negotiate some better options for ALL VA pilots.
And now with out any sign of a professional strong union the way forward is dead .
Well done , really.
The last VA EBA was a shocker, near 20 % pay cut along with other terrible conditions.
70% voted for it.Why , the company basically threatened and bullied Pilots into saying yes, pilots voted yes because of this , some because they believed in fairies that VA would bring a workable fair bidding system, others well just plain stupid and for some a pay rise.
70% voted for it.Why , the company basically threatened and bullied Pilots into saying yes, pilots voted yes because of this , some because they believed in fairies that VA would bring a workable fair bidding system, others well just plain stupid and for some a pay rise.
Well I will call it out , after 15 yrs at VA and some 50
yrs of flying, any VA pilot that takes call outs these days and Japan is a “ bum “.
And I said above, dumb and greedy and their own worst enemy.
Oh and yes it’s has been a long time since posting here but hell , we are so so f , it’s sad.
There is no race to the bottom, we are there.
yrs of flying, any VA pilot that takes call outs these days and Japan is a “ bum “.
And I said above, dumb and greedy and their own worst enemy.
Oh and yes it’s has been a long time since posting here but hell , we are so so f , it’s sad.
There is no race to the bottom, we are there.
Given the current union is totally inept and lost the reality of what Airline pilots should be paid and what conditions they should work under and many VA pilots have demonstrated their inability to stand up to the company, I expect 3% and one less day per roster is the offer.
The other mob may make some noise but they represent truck drivers, who themselves work bloody hard for their wages. I cannot see unfortunately any gain there.
The other mob may make some noise but they represent truck drivers, who themselves work bloody hard for their wages. I cannot see unfortunately any gain there.
How about all VA pilots start to jump and down , call the union and complain and put pen to paper . I do. I have spoken to DC and PL at the AFAP for years about this.
All VA pilots need to get active , vocal and speak up.
However having said this your voice is only good as the people representing you and there f******useless.That’s why we are where we are today.
All VA pilots need to get active , vocal and speak up.
However having said this your voice is only good as the people representing you and there f******useless.That’s why we are where we are today.
So 5 million So called Australians got a government pay welfare increase today , us Pilots who have taken a 35% pay cut since the last EBA pay for this.
The main component of an Airline is the aircraft, the Captain is the GM of that yet all the managers at VA have never never come near it .Like the union they are totally useless.
No wonder we are where we are today.
21.4 million for Mr J . That again should set the base for VA pilots. Do u get that 🤪
ps , many out there don’t know that JB got an Order of Australia for Services to Aviation.
We VA pilots are now so so behind many other Pilots and more so those out there in the general work community. Who is responsible, our Useless Union the AFAP.
The base pay MR A for a VA Captain needs to be $ 310k for 60:hrs FLT time per roster and 15 days off
And A it’s really not breathtaking Mate in todays work environment.
Working 90 hrs per roster to earn a decent salary is totally ******.
The main component of an Airline is the aircraft, the Captain is the GM of that yet all the managers at VA have never never come near it .Like the union they are totally useless.
No wonder we are where we are today.
21.4 million for Mr J . That again should set the base for VA pilots. Do u get that 🤪
ps , many out there don’t know that JB got an Order of Australia for Services to Aviation.
We VA pilots are now so so behind many other Pilots and more so those out there in the general work community. Who is responsible, our Useless Union the AFAP.
The base pay MR A for a VA Captain needs to be $ 310k for 60:hrs FLT time per roster and 15 days off
And A it’s really not breathtaking Mate in todays work environment.
Working 90 hrs per roster to earn a decent salary is totally ******.
No disrespect, but not eye watering.
6 % over 4 years is totally reasonable. Call it 25 add our 20 we lost plus another 10 to cover the last 3 yrs = 55 %
That takes a Capt to around $330 . That is what at a minimum a VA CPT should be on, for 60 flight hrs. My number is 350. And that’s not eye watering it’s what they are worth for their job.
But with our weak Unions Your Dreaming.
6 % over 4 years is totally reasonable. Call it 25 add our 20 we lost plus another 10 to cover the last 3 yrs = 55 %
That takes a Capt to around $330 . That is what at a minimum a VA CPT should be on, for 60 flight hrs. My number is 350. And that’s not eye watering it’s what they are worth for their job.
But with our weak Unions Your Dreaming.
Any one short of 350k for a Capt with a MCG of 6O hrs and Fo at 66 % of this is mug and sorry just plain dumb. And whilst I do not accept Airline Pilots should have their Salaries based on performance or productivity ,6O hrs is very high and therefore a very good offer to VA.
If u want to work more than 60 hrs do so on OT. That’s fine, it’s your life. But u won’t make 70 ,!
The union as Slugga has said , for some 50 yrs sold u short don’t follow them.
Teams is like politicians all talk no action, ‘ A ‘ can’t not make or change its only from J ,and she has demonstrated over the past years that’s not her mamtra. Which is fine , it’s her business.
Thats where the union is supposed to be and add value to its members, has it !,,, NO.
The distress and frustration that VA higher management causes to not just Pilots but most employees is a disgrace, Union where are u .
The union is asleep at the wheel. ******* useless.
If u want to work more than 60 hrs do so on OT. That’s fine, it’s your life. But u won’t make 70 ,!
The union as Slugga has said , for some 50 yrs sold u short don’t follow them.
Teams is like politicians all talk no action, ‘ A ‘ can’t not make or change its only from J ,and she has demonstrated over the past years that’s not her mamtra. Which is fine , it’s her business.
Thats where the union is supposed to be and add value to its members, has it !,,, NO.
The distress and frustration that VA higher management causes to not just Pilots but most employees is a disgrace, Union where are u .
The union is asleep at the wheel. ******* useless.
Those here who are not across why my figures are not up to date with the mood of VA pilots , not up to date with the economy in Australia, not up to date with the cost of living, not up to date with what people are earning in Australia, not up to date with living a reasonable respectable and sustainable life as a pilot. Having both at work and away a comfortable and good life style.
I guess they are union delegates, if not they are plain dumb. How is our current pay and conditions fair realistic and competitive in the work environment. They are not, they are crap , working 70 to 85 hrs a roster to earn a fair wage is totally ******.
And as I have stated, my wage is time with company related , 350k is the time high end.
I guess they are union delegates, if not they are plain dumb. How is our current pay and conditions fair realistic and competitive in the work environment. They are not, they are crap , working 70 to 85 hrs a roster to earn a fair wage is totally ******.
And as I have stated, my wage is time with company related , 350k is the time high end.
Christ, some here are dumb and have their head still in the sand.
I really didn’t want to get into my numbers here , happy in person ; hell do u own research re wages / conditions today.
As I said 9 out 10 pilots I fly with and talk to agree with my numbers. A few here do not and I respect that, but you are really wrong.
An MCG of 60 is above the current level. As I said I do not believe Pilots should be driven by productivity , we are flying aircraft remember.
But I am a realist and accept the inept unions have put us in this position over many years.
My wage covers BOTH flying AND Duty hrs starts at 300 k for a New Capt and reaches 350 k in 4 bands of time to a 12 year Capt, which would capture the vast majority of VA pilots.
A band very importantly recognises both experience and loyalty to the business, something again our unions have forgotten. Something the company unfortunately does not want to recognise, but would rather spent time money on so many things that don’t really mater and the vast majority of Pilots do not agree with or want to accept. Hell we can all name so so many.
I really didn’t want to get into my numbers here , happy in person ; hell do u own research re wages / conditions today.
As I said 9 out 10 pilots I fly with and talk to agree with my numbers. A few here do not and I respect that, but you are really wrong.
An MCG of 60 is above the current level. As I said I do not believe Pilots should be driven by productivity , we are flying aircraft remember.
But I am a realist and accept the inept unions have put us in this position over many years.
My wage covers BOTH flying AND Duty hrs starts at 300 k for a New Capt and reaches 350 k in 4 bands of time to a 12 year Capt, which would capture the vast majority of VA pilots.
A band very importantly recognises both experience and loyalty to the business, something again our unions have forgotten. Something the company unfortunately does not want to recognise, but would rather spent time money on so many things that don’t really mater and the vast majority of Pilots do not agree with or want to accept. Hell we can all name so so many.
What should have been happening for many many years and what needs to happen this time is the Unions that pilots employee to do their job.
Unfortunately the AFAP has endorsed this terrible EA , Christ they are so weak and completely useless once again.
Unfortunately the only hope is the TWU stepping up . Otherwise the company once again is laughing all the way to the bank.
This EA in a nut shell means we get the same pay as 2019 some 5 yrs ago on less days off and working far more hrs.
How in hell can any right minded Pilot agree to this .
Unfortunately the AFAP has endorsed this terrible EA , Christ they are so weak and completely useless once again.
Unfortunately the only hope is the TWU stepping up . Otherwise the company once again is laughing all the way to the bank.
This EA in a nut shell means we get the same pay as 2019 some 5 yrs ago on less days off and working far more hrs.
How in hell can any right minded Pilot agree to this .
And to finish , as I said again above, the SMART pilots will VOTE NO to this current Proposal.
No one should have to work more than 60 FLT hrs per roster to earn a good wage , no one should have to work drafts to earn a good wage. All pilots need at least min rest at all ports to be at least 15 hrs . AFAP you have a life style, give it to those who pay your wages. Do your job .
The proposal before us is CRAP .
Totally unacceptable.
Vote it down and ask the AFAP to do their job .
No one should have to work more than 60 FLT hrs per roster to earn a good wage , no one should have to work drafts to earn a good wage. All pilots need at least min rest at all ports to be at least 15 hrs . AFAP you have a life style, give it to those who pay your wages. Do your job .
The proposal before us is CRAP .
Totally unacceptable.
Vote it down and ask the AFAP to do their job .
Last edited by Biatch; 21st Apr 2024 at 02:49.
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You’re not wrong, however do we need to stoop to the same level of childish attacks?
You guys are meant to be professional adults - it’s embarrassing - and I don’t even work for VA.
You guys are meant to be professional adults - it’s embarrassing - and I don’t even work for VA.
The following 2 users liked this post by ScepticalOptomist: