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Old 15th Jul 2023, 06:53
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Virgin pilots

Many can not see the woods for trees.
Any Pilot, management ones aside, who have committed to Japan Fltís are just plane dumb or greedy.
Here we had a wonderful business opportunity to negotiate some better options for ALL VA pilots.
And now with out any sign of a professional strong union the way forward is dead .
Well done , really.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 06:59
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How's the haemorrhoids?
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 07:03
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Really , that’s your reply mate.
No wonder we are f at VA.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 09:27
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In the words of PaulineÖplease explain!
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 09:48
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What was the proposal?
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 10:03
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Pilots don’t stand together end of, there is always an element who will sell the rest down the river for a better opportunity or bigger plane.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 10:06
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The last VA EBA was a shocker, near 20 % pay cut along with other terrible conditions.
70% voted for it.Why , the company basically threatened and bullied Pilots into saying yes, pilots voted yes because of this , some because they believed in fairies that VA would bring a workable fair bidding system, others well just plain stupid and for some a pay rise. Not to mention the AFAP endorsement of it why, they wanted WB guys back ………
So here we had an opportunity to gain some pay back, VA really needs to operate this Japan sectors.
Do I need to say more.
And to his credit, even our No one pilot DG , said don’t put your hand up for it AND any call outs.
All this does is undermine the Pilot group. 10 hrs this weekend is not the answer.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 10:11
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Originally Posted by farrari
Many can not see the woods for trees.
Any Pilot, management ones aside, who have committed to Japan Fltís are just plane dumb or greedy.
Here we had a wonderful business opportunity to negotiate some better options for ALL VA pilots.
And now with out any sign of a professional strong union the way forward is dead .
Well done , really.
First post in over a decade and thatís what you come up with?

The Japan flying isnít my cup of tea (in fact I couldnít think of anything worse than a 2 crew 7.5 hour red eye in a 737), but I donít begrudge people for doing it. I think any perceived leverage from this was way over stated anyway.

As has been clearly articulated by others, the strength of the Union has a direct correlation to the strength of the membership (which is also the reasons there is a strong case against different Union memberships!).

We will know just how strong the members of the Unions are in about 12 months if it comes to the crunch.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 10:56
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Well I will call it out , after 15 yrs at VA and some 50
yrs of flying, any VA pilot that takes call outs these days and Japan is a “ bum “.
And I said above, dumb and greedy and their own worst enemy.
Oh and yes it’s has been a long time since posting here but hell , we are so so f , it’s sad.
There is no race to the bottom, we are there.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 11:07
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Originally Posted by Colonel_Klink
First post in over a decade and thatís what you come up with?

The Japan flying isnít my cup of tea (in fact I couldnít think of anything worse than a 2 crew 7.5 hour red eye in a 737), but I donít begrudge people for doing it. I think any perceived leverage from this was way over stated anyway.

As has been clearly articulated by others, the strength of the Union has a direct correlation to the strength of the membership (which is also the reasons there is a strong case against different Union memberships!).

We will know just how strong the members of the Unions are in about 12 months if it comes to the crunch.
In a previous life, I have done 8 hour Red Eye flights in a 737- 700 with additional tanks. Itís not pleasant.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 14:35
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Originally Posted by farrari
Well I will call it out , after 15 yrs at VA and some 50
yrs of flying, any VA pilot that takes call outs these days and Japan is a ď bum ď.
And I said above, dumb and greedy and their own worst enemy.
Oh and yes itís has been a long time since posting here but hell , we are so so f , itís sad.
There is no race to the bottom, we are there.
You must be fun at parties.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 14:37
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There is not a group of people in the world (not just pilots but anyone) who are more willing to screw each other over than VA pilots. Nothing changes at that dreadful place and its always the same people who take the special deals while their fellow pilots get to deal with all the crap.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 19:47
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Originally Posted by Tommy Bahama
There is not a group of people in the world (not just pilots but anyone) who are more willing to screw each other over than VA pilots. Nothing changes at that dreadful place and its always the same people who take the special deals while their fellow pilots get to deal with all the crap.
That's global. Have been through a bankruptcy, any fairytale notions I previously had of pilots standing together under the union banner were quickly destroyed. It was a firm lesson in reality. Fellow pilots will sooner see your career ended if it meant they got an extra dollar. Have refused to join any union since.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 20:56
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Originally Posted by farrari
Well I will call it out , after 15 yrs at VA and some 50
yrs of flying, any VA pilot that takes call outs these days and Japan is a ď bum ď.
And I said above, dumb and greedy and their own worst enemy.
Oh and yes itís has been a long time since posting here but hell , we are so so f , itís sad.
There is no race to the bottom, we are there.
50 years of flying, so very close to retirement
Not really understanding why you would make a big fuss over the EBA at this stage of your career
Surely you have earned a majority of what you can and you have your super under control, so an extra few thousand at the end of your career isn't going to make or break you
A person of your vintage should have an attitude more like
> Back in the good old days, before ATC and radar
> I still remember going sonic in a 727
> The Vietnam flashbacks are getting more vivid doc
> Why am I getting so many stick shakers and the FO doesn't
> Walkarounds aren't hard, it's just the long walk to the escalator to get upstairs that tires me out
> Let the young whipper snappers worry about the new EBA, none of my concern
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 22:50
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From a pilot's perspective, what is the difference between 7 hours in the cockpit of a widebody vs 7 hours in a 737?. From Pax perspective, yes. But pilots sit in a seat in the cockpit., For all you know, looking forward, you could have a 737 behind you, or a DAsh *, or a chieftain. If its the size of the aeroplane, how do corporate pilots sit in the cockpits of Challengers or Globals etc on international trips.

Genuine question.
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Old 15th Jul 2023, 23:15
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Originally Posted by Captn Rex Havack
From a pilot's perspective, what is the difference between 7 hours in the cockpit of a widebody vs 7 hours in a 737?. From Pax perspective, yes. But pilots sit in a seat in the cockpit., For all you know, looking forward, you could have a 737 behind you, or a DAsh *, or a chieftain. If its the size of the aeroplane, how do corporate pilots sit in the cockpits of Challengers or Globals etc on international trips.

Genuine question.
for starters, most widebody pilots wouldnít be sitting in the seat for 7 hours
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 00:11
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Originally Posted by Captn Rex Havack
From a pilot's perspective, what is the difference between 7 hours in the cockpit of a widebody vs 7 hours in a 737?. From Pax perspective, yes. But pilots sit in a seat in the cockpit., For all you know, looking forward, you could have a 737 behind you, or a DAsh *, or a chieftain. If its the size of the aeroplane, how do corporate pilots sit in the cockpits of Challengers or Globals etc on international trips.

Genuine question.
Genuine AnsweróI can assure you that 7 hours in a B787 or A350 is nothing like 7 hours in a Chieftain.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 00:26
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Every man for himself - the pilots’ credo.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 00:28
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Originally Posted by Captn Rex Havack
From a pilot's perspective, what is the difference between 7 hours in the cockpit of a widebody vs 7 hours in a 737?. From Pax perspective, yes. But pilots sit in a seat in the cockpit., For all you know, looking forward, you could have a 737 behind you, or a DAsh *, or a chieftain. If its the size of the aeroplane, how do corporate pilots sit in the cockpits of Challengers or Globals etc on international trips.

Genuine question.
You must be from the finance department.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 01:11
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Originally Posted by farrari
Well I will call it out , after 15 yrs at VA and some 50
yrs of flying, any VA pilot that takes call outs these days and Japan is a ď bum ď.
.
This is starting to make sense - especially with the reference to the Americaís Cup. You donít happen to be a business owner too do you?
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