Network Vacancies
It’s a circular argument. Depends which side of the fence you’re on as to the perspective of the problem.
It’s a circular argument. Depends which side of the fence you’re on as to the perspective of the problem.
And where was that so-called "backbone" when mainline pilots signed new agreements to fly their shiny new jets, hmmm?
Did they have a choice?
Did someone make them sign the dotted line?
Did someone make them vote "Yes"?
It's about time those who hold privileged positions in the Qantas Group stopped denigrating their "lesser" colleagues with pejorative terms such as "bin chicken" or "[email protected]". Most pilots I know try to make the best of the choices that are available to them.
BTW, I do not work for Qantas or any of its subsidiaries.
Did they have a choice?
Did someone make them sign the dotted line?
Did someone make them vote "Yes"?
It's about time those who hold privileged positions in the Qantas Group stopped denigrating their "lesser" colleagues with pejorative terms such as "bin chicken" or "[email protected]". Most pilots I know try to make the best of the choices that are available to them.
BTW, I do not work for Qantas or any of its subsidiaries.
if so we are all doomed and you have no respect for the profession.
Working under a contract that is rubbish drags every other agreement down setting a precedent that pilots are worth nothing.
I sure as hell didn’t get into this industry to go to work and give away conditions and pay because honestly who would jump through the hoops and invest all the time effort and money we did to get into an airline for rubbish conditions.
I think it was garbage that the seconds officers on the A350 contract are on a B scale again threat to give the work to Network.
I’m pretty sure though the conditions and pay would still be above network as a SO.
I also think it was garbage that the A321xlr contract got voted in 80 something percent with the threat of handing it to Network if it was not signed. Giving away conditions for what? 20 aircraft not even 1-1 replacement of the 737.
You always have a choice when voting when will pilots grow a set and stand up and say enough is enough and work under a contract that doesn’t undercut others and actually be happy to go to work under a EA.
Sadly I see way too many people just in it for themselves happy to do anything to fly a jet undercutting anyone that gets in the way.
doesn’t help that upper management play groups off against each other but when do you say this has gone too far and we have to say NO.
Another one that needs to get down off their pedestal and appreciate the fact that not everyone has the same "choice". Curious to know what these so-called "pilots that have a backbone" have managed to achieve, other than feather their own nests at the expense of everyone else.
- Delta Air Lines pilots voted no on their contract in 2015.
- Southwest Airlines pilots vote no on their contract in 2015.
N.B. The subsequently renegotiated contracts were substantially better than the first offer. United pilots are now negotiating in a more favorable environment due to Deltas new contract. All of their contacts exceed Qantas mainline. Both then and now.
who enjoy such pay and conditions stopped abusing those who don't. I have no problem with pilots trying to protect their pay and conditions. I do have a problem with those who expect others to take a stand, but who aren't prepared to do so themselves. As for not having "respect for the profession", a 40-year career in the "profession" says otherwise.
Do people actually know what the average FT Aussie wage is in Australia?
$93,000
I’ll bet most reading this won’t know that and will be surprised that it’s so close to six figures.
And here we have people coming in for $360/day before tax to fly 180 lives around in a fast, heavy, complex machine that took them years if not decades to get into. Expensive specialised training, checks, study and sacrifices. Up early regularly or away from home often. Changing schedules, MELs, delays, no bonuses. Daily dynamic working environment throwing all sorts of crap at you that is trying to potentially kill you and the 180 or so punters behind you. Something broken? Having a shitty shift? You can’t just get up and walk away from your desk or go outside for a smoko. Nah, you have to think about operational stuff. A long list I could write out that you’re all familiar with of crap pilots deal with daily. You’re not driving a bus you can’t just pull over when conditions aren’t favourable and not think about things like fuel. Oh, and the cyclics etc to keep your job.
And you’re willing to do that and sacrifice a day off for 1/3rd the pay of the guys next door?
How much better off are you financially when comparing yourself to $93,000 a year?
$93,000
I’ll bet most reading this won’t know that and will be surprised that it’s so close to six figures.
And here we have people coming in for $360/day before tax to fly 180 lives around in a fast, heavy, complex machine that took them years if not decades to get into. Expensive specialised training, checks, study and sacrifices. Up early regularly or away from home often. Changing schedules, MELs, delays, no bonuses. Daily dynamic working environment throwing all sorts of crap at you that is trying to potentially kill you and the 180 or so punters behind you. Something broken? Having a shitty shift? You can’t just get up and walk away from your desk or go outside for a smoko. Nah, you have to think about operational stuff. A long list I could write out that you’re all familiar with of crap pilots deal with daily. You’re not driving a bus you can’t just pull over when conditions aren’t favourable and not think about things like fuel. Oh, and the cyclics etc to keep your job.
And you’re willing to do that and sacrifice a day off for 1/3rd the pay of the guys next door?
How much better off are you financially when comparing yourself to $93,000 a year?
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I don’t disagree with your point. Comparisons are odious.
Averages are funny things, mean, mode and median.
This page says the median is $64,000 pa
https://studyworkgrow.com.au/2023/01...-in-australia/
Regardless of definition, it is clear that pilot wages have not kept pace with the general trend.
Averages are funny things, mean, mode and median.
This page says the median is $64,000 pa
https://studyworkgrow.com.au/2023/01...-in-australia/
Regardless of definition, it is clear that pilot wages have not kept pace with the general trend.
Do people actually know what the average FT Aussie wage is in Australia?
$93,000
I’ll bet most reading this won’t know that and will be surprised that it’s so close to six figures.
And here we have people coming in for $360/day before tax to fly 180 lives around in a fast, heavy, complex machine that took them years if not decades to get into. Expensive specialised training, checks, study and sacrifices. Up early regularly or away from home often. Changing schedules, MELs, delays, no bonuses. Daily dynamic working environment throwing all sorts of crap at you that is trying to potentially kill you and the 180 or so punters behind you. Something broken? Having a shitty shift? You can’t just get up and walk away from your desk or go outside for a smoko. Nah, you have to think about operational stuff. A long list I could write out that you’re all familiar with of crap pilots deal with daily. You’re not driving a bus you can’t just pull over when conditions aren’t favourable and not think about things like fuel. Oh, and the cyclics etc to keep your job.
And you’re willing to do that and sacrifice a day off for 1/3rd the pay of the guys next door?
How much better off are you financially when comparing yourself to $93,000 a year?
$93,000
I’ll bet most reading this won’t know that and will be surprised that it’s so close to six figures.
And here we have people coming in for $360/day before tax to fly 180 lives around in a fast, heavy, complex machine that took them years if not decades to get into. Expensive specialised training, checks, study and sacrifices. Up early regularly or away from home often. Changing schedules, MELs, delays, no bonuses. Daily dynamic working environment throwing all sorts of crap at you that is trying to potentially kill you and the 180 or so punters behind you. Something broken? Having a shitty shift? You can’t just get up and walk away from your desk or go outside for a smoko. Nah, you have to think about operational stuff. A long list I could write out that you’re all familiar with of crap pilots deal with daily. You’re not driving a bus you can’t just pull over when conditions aren’t favourable and not think about things like fuel. Oh, and the cyclics etc to keep your job.
And you’re willing to do that and sacrifice a day off for 1/3rd the pay of the guys next door?
How much better off are you financially when comparing yourself to $93,000 a year?
This is absolutely disgusting. I can name numerous unskilled jobs I have done to pay for my flight training that paid more than $360 a day!
Day off callout pay should average at least double your daily pay rate, ideally an hourly rate based on duty time. You allow that to stay as is and your company will never employ enough pilots and just keep using the cheap labor that will work a day off for less than their normal work day pay. Most turboprop FOs earn more than that on a callout. Remember that working days off or on leave doesn't add to your super or leave etc, etc, unless its specifically in the EBA, so you lose more than just a day off for a days pay.
It all comes down to two things:
1. Supply and demand. This is a major one. We see it unfolding in the US right now. Wind the clock back 10-15 years and there were regional pilots in the US earning peanuts. Now their salaries have increased significantly and are getting $100,000 sign-on bonuses. Not even mentioning what is going at the majors and the freight operators. I don't think Australia will ever get such a shortage but who knows, I've been wrong countless times when it comes to this industry.
2. The industrial landscape. Take Virgin as an example. Fair Work would have terminated their EA if the company had applied for it - as a pilot group, you don't really have the upper hand or many options if presented with this option. Now Labour is in government and have changed the industrial landscape in favour of the workers and not the companies. Hopefully as an industry we can all claw back some conditions.
All the rest is mostly just white noise and calling the bluff of the company or vice versa.
So chill out everyone. If it all falls in a heap there are plenty of other jobs in other industries that pay better, work regular hours, weekends off, public holidays off and you can actually plan you holidays and get leave when you want. Aviation is a shit sandwich - we all keep taking bites and then get surprised with the taste.
1. Supply and demand. This is a major one. We see it unfolding in the US right now. Wind the clock back 10-15 years and there were regional pilots in the US earning peanuts. Now their salaries have increased significantly and are getting $100,000 sign-on bonuses. Not even mentioning what is going at the majors and the freight operators. I don't think Australia will ever get such a shortage but who knows, I've been wrong countless times when it comes to this industry.
2. The industrial landscape. Take Virgin as an example. Fair Work would have terminated their EA if the company had applied for it - as a pilot group, you don't really have the upper hand or many options if presented with this option. Now Labour is in government and have changed the industrial landscape in favour of the workers and not the companies. Hopefully as an industry we can all claw back some conditions.
All the rest is mostly just white noise and calling the bluff of the company or vice versa.
So chill out everyone. If it all falls in a heap there are plenty of other jobs in other industries that pay better, work regular hours, weekends off, public holidays off and you can actually plan you holidays and get leave when you want. Aviation is a shit sandwich - we all keep taking bites and then get surprised with the taste.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that it's about time self-righteous who enjoy such pay and conditions stopped abusing those who don't. I have no problem with pilots trying to protect their pay and conditions. I do have a problem with those who expect others to take a stand, but who aren't prepared to do so themselves.
As for not having "respect for the profession", a 40-year career in the "profession" says otherwise.
who enjoy such pay and conditions stopped abusing those who don't. I have no problem with pilots trying to protect their pay and conditions. I do have a problem with those who expect others to take a stand, but who aren't prepared to do so themselves.As for not having "respect for the profession", a 40-year career in the "profession" says otherwise.
Pilots working at Network are abusing all the Pilots working in the Industry.
$500 a day for a Captain and $307 for a First Officer on a day off is a slap in the face to all Pilots in the industry.
Did I miss the memo that this is the going rate for a A320 Pilot?
What do you think will happen at EA negotiating for all groups in Australia if crew are willing to work for this.
Congratulations 40 years
Not making the industry a complete race to the bottom is having Respect.
Testing Understanding:
At Group Companies, when accepting the $'s to fly on an OFF day, do you take the $'s in lieu of the OFF day that you loose...or do you take the $'s + get the OFF day back in lieu?
At Group Companies, when accepting the $'s to fly on an OFF day, do you take the $'s in lieu of the OFF day that you loose...or do you take the $'s + get the OFF day back in lieu?
Last edited by RealSatoshi; 4th Mar 2023 at 13:44.
” It depends” On an x day you get both, but only if you are at minimum days off.
I get around $1400 minimum for a day off which I almost never accept.
I get around $1400 minimum for a day off which I almost never accept.
I have said nothing about the rights or wrongs of Network's pay and conditions, so I'm a little confused as to which of my comments you find objectionable. Is it the bit where I said "it's about time self-righteous who enjoy such pay and conditions stopped abusing those who don't"; or the bit where I said "I do have a problem with those who expect others to take a stand, but who aren't prepared to do so themselves"?
who enjoy such pay and conditions stopped abusing those who don't"; or the bit where I said "I do have a problem with those who expect others to take a stand, but who aren't prepared to do so themselves"?
I have said nothing about the rights or wrongs of Network's pay and conditions, so I'm a little confused as to which of my comments you find objectionable. Is it the bit where I said "it's about time self-righteous who enjoy such pay and conditions stopped abusing those who don't"; or the bit where I said "I do have a problem with those who expect others to take a stand, but who aren't prepared to do so themselves"?
who enjoy such pay and conditions stopped abusing those who don't"; or the bit where I said "I do have a problem with those who expect others to take a stand, but who aren't prepared to do so themselves"? If Network Pilots had Respect for the industry and all others flying the same or similar aircraft they would not get abuse.
But they couldn’t care less they work under a complete rubbish EA making this job a race to the bottom.
If you think that heaping abuse and vitriol on a particular group of workers is the way to effect change, then I think you are sadly mistaken. It shows you are nothing more than arrogant, entitled thugs.
Last edited by BuzzBox; 5th Mar 2023 at 01:21.
