Network EBA
I’m sorry, but that’s an absolute load of horse shit.
It epitomises the Gen i attitude. “Won’t be my problem soon, so I’ll just shit on the people who are junior to me and who might work at Network one day in the future.”
It also proves my point earlier in the thread that Australian pilots have zero fkg concept that the lowest denominator on the pecking order controls not only their conditions, but to a large extent, those above them.
If people don’t care because they’re on the mainline hold file, they’re pretty naive - because THEIR conditions at mainline into the future will be determined by how low the bottom of the industry is willing to go.
Make no mistake about it, Network pilots have a huge responsibility with this negotiation.
You only have to look at what happened at NJS. They got butt-hurt and scared with empty threats, and so they caved and signed a shit deal. Straight after, a whole bunch of them left because there was no long term future there. And the ones left behind who didn’t have another plan are dealing with an absolute shit-show. Lastly, now the can has been kicked along the road and all other negotiations for group airlines and other Australian airlines have been made worse.
Please don’t sell out on your mates, and on your own long term future. Stop being selfish children.
Regardless if you’ve got a new job lined up, if you wouldn’t work under those conditions into the future, don’t vote it up. You’re just pissing on the industry as a whole.
You accuse Qantas of killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The real golden egg here is the best bargaining position Australian airline pilots have been in for 30+ years. Network pilots saying “fk you, I’m just gonna look after me” are actually the ones killing the goose.
It epitomises the Gen i attitude. “Won’t be my problem soon, so I’ll just shit on the people who are junior to me and who might work at Network one day in the future.”
It also proves my point earlier in the thread that Australian pilots have zero fkg concept that the lowest denominator on the pecking order controls not only their conditions, but to a large extent, those above them.
If people don’t care because they’re on the mainline hold file, they’re pretty naive - because THEIR conditions at mainline into the future will be determined by how low the bottom of the industry is willing to go.
Make no mistake about it, Network pilots have a huge responsibility with this negotiation.
You only have to look at what happened at NJS. They got butt-hurt and scared with empty threats, and so they caved and signed a shit deal. Straight after, a whole bunch of them left because there was no long term future there. And the ones left behind who didn’t have another plan are dealing with an absolute shit-show. Lastly, now the can has been kicked along the road and all other negotiations for group airlines and other Australian airlines have been made worse.
Please don’t sell out on your mates, and on your own long term future. Stop being selfish children.
Regardless if you’ve got a new job lined up, if you wouldn’t work under those conditions into the future, don’t vote it up. You’re just pissing on the industry as a whole.
You accuse Qantas of killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The real golden egg here is the best bargaining position Australian airline pilots have been in for 30+ years. Network pilots saying “fk you, I’m just gonna look after me” are actually the ones killing the goose.
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Happy to be given the facts if this widely circulating rumour isn't true.
So yeah, it was an idle threat.
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Award A220 to NAA.
Slowly close down NJS 717
Suddenly a bunch of pilots needing to go somewhere?
Last edited by gordonfvckingramsay; 28th Mar 2023 at 09:17.
Imagine 4 different AOC’s all in the same group operating the same airplane! QF, EFA, JQ and NWK all flying the same jet with different pay scales, absolutely ridiculous. But hey we aren’t allowed to compare are we? I wonder if the same applies to surgeons, doctors, dentists, police etc. Wake up people!
Imagine 4 different AOC’s all in the same group operating the same airplane! QF, EFA, JQ and NWK all flying the same jet with different pay scales, absolutely ridiculous. But hey we aren’t allowed to compare are we? I wonder if the same applies to surgeons, doctors, dentists, police etc. Wake up people!
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Ahh yeah, there’s this thing called PIA. Without it, you’re breaking the law.
So basically all of the above is not possible. But if it is, perhaps you could organise it?
So basically all of the above is not possible. But if it is, perhaps you could organise it?
This is how it worked in the wild west a few decades ago. The pilot group can
be catagorised in about 4 groups.
1. Professional conpetent crew who know their job and pass checks and will do what is right for the pilot group.
2. Crew (nominally 2-3 Captains) who are marginal at the job, scrape through sims and are shit scared to stand up industrially as their job hangs by the next sim. They fly during protected industrial action to garnish favour with the company, lap up the extra crumbs and diminish the effectiveness of industrial action.
3. With no firm seniority system the first officers seeking promotion don't wish to be seen to be militant (read- stand up to their rights) as they fear being by-passed for a command position.
4. A mix of the above who have rarely and in some cases never crewed an aircraft outside of Western Australia (flat earthers..) who crap themselves at the thought of moving interstate for another gig.
By example other group entities are paying a minimum of $2,000 to front up to work on a day off to crew or pax on a positioning flight. To consider doing this for a few hundred $$$ is obscene.
I am thankfully retired now but witnessed all the above involving individuals
who are now at the company in question. You have a huge advantage of having the troops in one crewroom in one base. And yet solidarity is still illusive. Ask yourself where you and your fellow pilots stand and wonder if they will stand with you or you will stand with them when the going gets tough.
Goid luck. You will need it all.
be catagorised in about 4 groups.
1. Professional conpetent crew who know their job and pass checks and will do what is right for the pilot group.
2. Crew (nominally 2-3 Captains) who are marginal at the job, scrape through sims and are shit scared to stand up industrially as their job hangs by the next sim. They fly during protected industrial action to garnish favour with the company, lap up the extra crumbs and diminish the effectiveness of industrial action.
3. With no firm seniority system the first officers seeking promotion don't wish to be seen to be militant (read- stand up to their rights) as they fear being by-passed for a command position.
4. A mix of the above who have rarely and in some cases never crewed an aircraft outside of Western Australia (flat earthers..) who crap themselves at the thought of moving interstate for another gig.
By example other group entities are paying a minimum of $2,000 to front up to work on a day off to crew or pax on a positioning flight. To consider doing this for a few hundred $$$ is obscene.
I am thankfully retired now but witnessed all the above involving individuals
who are now at the company in question. You have a huge advantage of having the troops in one crewroom in one base. And yet solidarity is still illusive. Ask yourself where you and your fellow pilots stand and wonder if they will stand with you or you will stand with them when the going gets tough.
Goid luck. You will need it all.
In the top 737 captain pay level a day off gets four hours credit at crewing discretion, which pays circa $1,400 which is, anecdotally, about the minimum most people will work for.
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This is how it worked in the wild west a few decades ago. The pilot group can
be catagorised in about 4 groups.
1. Professional conpetent crew who know their job and pass checks and will do what is right for the pilot group.
2. Crew (nominally 2-3 Captains) who are marginal at the job, scrape through sims and are shit scared to stand up industrially as their job hangs by the next sim. They fly during protected industrial action to garnish favour with the company, lap up the extra crumbs and diminish the effectiveness of industrial action.
3. With no firm seniority system the first officers seeking promotion don't wish to be seen to be militant (read- stand up to their rights) as they fear being by-passed for a command position.
4. A mix of the above who have rarely and in some cases never crewed an aircraft outside of Western Australia (flat earthers..) who crap themselves at the thought of moving interstate for another gig.
By example other group entities are paying a minimum of $2,000 to front up to work on a day off to crew or pax on a positioning flight. To consider doing this for a few hundred $$$ is obscene.
I am thankfully retired now but witnessed all the above involving individuals
who are now at the company in question. You have a huge advantage of having the troops in one crewroom in one base. And yet solidarity is still illusive. Ask yourself where you and your fellow pilots stand and wonder if they will stand with you or you will stand with them when the going gets tough.
Goid luck. You will need it all.
be catagorised in about 4 groups.
1. Professional conpetent crew who know their job and pass checks and will do what is right for the pilot group.
2. Crew (nominally 2-3 Captains) who are marginal at the job, scrape through sims and are shit scared to stand up industrially as their job hangs by the next sim. They fly during protected industrial action to garnish favour with the company, lap up the extra crumbs and diminish the effectiveness of industrial action.
3. With no firm seniority system the first officers seeking promotion don't wish to be seen to be militant (read- stand up to their rights) as they fear being by-passed for a command position.
4. A mix of the above who have rarely and in some cases never crewed an aircraft outside of Western Australia (flat earthers..) who crap themselves at the thought of moving interstate for another gig.
By example other group entities are paying a minimum of $2,000 to front up to work on a day off to crew or pax on a positioning flight. To consider doing this for a few hundred $$$ is obscene.
I am thankfully retired now but witnessed all the above involving individuals
who are now at the company in question. You have a huge advantage of having the troops in one crewroom in one base. And yet solidarity is still illusive. Ask yourself where you and your fellow pilots stand and wonder if they will stand with you or you will stand with them when the going gets tough.
Goid luck. You will need it all.
We don’t need luck, we need crew who correctly value their skills and position. And are willing to take action if there expectations aren’t met.
This is how it worked in the wild west a few decades ago. The pilot group can
be catagorised in about 4 groups.
1. Professional conpetent crew who know their job and pass checks and will do what is right for the pilot group.
2. Crew (nominally 2-3 Captains) who are marginal at the job, scrape through sims and are shit scared to stand up industrially as their job hangs by the next sim. They fly during protected industrial action to garnish favour with the company, lap up the extra crumbs and diminish the effectiveness of industrial action.
3. With no firm seniority system the first officers seeking promotion don't wish to be seen to be militant (read- stand up to their rights) as they fear being by-passed for a command position.
4. A mix of the above who have rarely and in some cases never crewed an aircraft outside of Western Australia (flat earthers..) who crap themselves at the thought of moving interstate for another gig.
By example other group entities are paying a minimum of $2,000 to front up to work on a day off to crew or pax on a positioning flight. To consider doing this for a few hundred $$$ is obscene.
I am thankfully retired now but witnessed all the above involving individuals
who are now at the company in question. You have a huge advantage of having the troops in one crewroom in one base. And yet solidarity is still illusive. Ask yourself where you and your fellow pilots stand and wonder if they will stand with you or you will stand with them when the going gets tough.
Goid luck. You will need it all.
be catagorised in about 4 groups.
1. Professional conpetent crew who know their job and pass checks and will do what is right for the pilot group.
2. Crew (nominally 2-3 Captains) who are marginal at the job, scrape through sims and are shit scared to stand up industrially as their job hangs by the next sim. They fly during protected industrial action to garnish favour with the company, lap up the extra crumbs and diminish the effectiveness of industrial action.
3. With no firm seniority system the first officers seeking promotion don't wish to be seen to be militant (read- stand up to their rights) as they fear being by-passed for a command position.
4. A mix of the above who have rarely and in some cases never crewed an aircraft outside of Western Australia (flat earthers..) who crap themselves at the thought of moving interstate for another gig.
By example other group entities are paying a minimum of $2,000 to front up to work on a day off to crew or pax on a positioning flight. To consider doing this for a few hundred $$$ is obscene.
I am thankfully retired now but witnessed all the above involving individuals
who are now at the company in question. You have a huge advantage of having the troops in one crewroom in one base. And yet solidarity is still illusive. Ask yourself where you and your fellow pilots stand and wonder if they will stand with you or you will stand with them when the going gets tough.
Goid luck. You will need it all.
I'd just add the following to point 2:
Some of those marginal captains who scrape through sims as FO's are in good standing at the local Jandakot aeroclub where they plied thier trade in the circuit before their Perth based Airline gig. Having had little exposure beyond the circuit and training area, in a valiant effort to hide their marginal flying skills, they find the best way to make use of that Grade 1 and make a nuisance of themselves in the training department of said Perth based Airline. There they find passing sims, just a tad easier than when they were just a lowly line pilot. Some with circuit hero bragging rights have even found themselves ensconsed in the lofty heights of training manangement, where they can really make a difference - to their own careers.
These aren't the people you'd trust to be still be around at the Christmas party when it's their shout, let alone have the pilots backs come EBA negotiation time.
Last edited by twentyelevens; 10th Apr 2023 at 12:00.
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oh, but wait, there were scabs then and I’m sure there will be more now. Did someone mention working RDOs for $350?
Network Pilots should keep in mind, they are helping to pay that $24 million Alan just got and that very expensive party they are throwing for themselves in Sydney this weekend. Network is one of the most profitable sectors in the QANTAS group, just have a look at the enormous revenue the Qantas-Link group is banking in WA & tell yourself they are not taking the piss !
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Accept nothing less than 30%.
Air Asia is offering a better deal vs your mob, and I never thought that day would come, sad indeed. In fact, Woolworths are offering better cash for working on a day off vs this outfit. Get with the times people. Don't cave in like camp Jetstar did, pathetic and dumb.
Air Asia is offering a better deal vs your mob, and I never thought that day would come, sad indeed. In fact, Woolworths are offering better cash for working on a day off vs this outfit. Get with the times people. Don't cave in like camp Jetstar did, pathetic and dumb.
This is how it worked in the wild west a few decades ago. The pilot group can
be catagorised in about 4 groups.
1. Professional conpetent crew who know their job and pass checks and will do what is right for the pilot group.
2. Crew (nominally 2-3 Captains) who are marginal at the job, scrape through sims and are shit scared to stand up industrially as their job hangs by the next sim. They fly during protected industrial action to garnish favour with the company, lap up the extra crumbs and diminish the effectiveness of industrial action.
3. With no firm seniority system the first officers seeking promotion don't wish to be seen to be militant (read- stand up to their rights) as they fear being by-passed for a command position.
4. A mix of the above who have rarely and in some cases never crewed an aircraft outside of Western Australia (flat earthers..) who crap themselves at the thought of moving interstate for another gig.
By example other group entities are paying a minimum of $2,000 to front up to work on a day off to crew or pax on a positioning flight. To consider doing this for a few hundred $$$ is obscene.
I am thankfully retired now but witnessed all the above involving individuals
who are now at the company in question. You have a huge advantage of having the troops in one crewroom in one base. And yet solidarity is still illusive. Ask yourself where you and your fellow pilots stand and wonder if they will stand with you or you will stand with them when the going gets tough.
Goid luck. You will need it all.
be catagorised in about 4 groups.
1. Professional conpetent crew who know their job and pass checks and will do what is right for the pilot group.
2. Crew (nominally 2-3 Captains) who are marginal at the job, scrape through sims and are shit scared to stand up industrially as their job hangs by the next sim. They fly during protected industrial action to garnish favour with the company, lap up the extra crumbs and diminish the effectiveness of industrial action.
3. With no firm seniority system the first officers seeking promotion don't wish to be seen to be militant (read- stand up to their rights) as they fear being by-passed for a command position.
4. A mix of the above who have rarely and in some cases never crewed an aircraft outside of Western Australia (flat earthers..) who crap themselves at the thought of moving interstate for another gig.
By example other group entities are paying a minimum of $2,000 to front up to work on a day off to crew or pax on a positioning flight. To consider doing this for a few hundred $$$ is obscene.
I am thankfully retired now but witnessed all the above involving individuals
who are now at the company in question. You have a huge advantage of having the troops in one crewroom in one base. And yet solidarity is still illusive. Ask yourself where you and your fellow pilots stand and wonder if they will stand with you or you will stand with them when the going gets tough.
Goid luck. You will need it all.
