Network EBA
Can't help but totally agree that Network crew shouldn't help and you'd see a pretty fast improvement.
What strategic imperatives where needed to secure more A320s during EBA negotiations?
Half yearly results indicate up to 24. Who's going to fly them?
The remainder of the group pilot groups are relying on Network. If you get paid more - the wedge is dead.
What strategic imperatives where needed to secure more A320s during EBA negotiations?
Half yearly results indicate up to 24. Who's going to fly them?
The remainder of the group pilot groups are relying on Network. If you get paid more - the wedge is dead.
Simple solution to all your woes. Advise the QF IR Team of the following non negotiable ‘Strategic Imperatives’:
1. An increase to the work on a Day off Payment to $1,200.
2. Include an allowance for any duty changes within 14 days of at least $500.
3. Increase the number of days off per roster period.
4. Improve protections around days off - 2 RDOs equal at least 65 hours free of duty.
5. The ability to refuse any duty changes within 14 days.
Failure to meet these non negotiable strategic imperatives in 14 days will result in PIA which will include refusing to work days off. Refusal of all MELs and full approaches flown including hold on every sector.
Do this and you’ll have a somewhat respectable EA within 6 weeks.
1. An increase to the work on a Day off Payment to $1,200.
2. Include an allowance for any duty changes within 14 days of at least $500.
3. Increase the number of days off per roster period.
4. Improve protections around days off - 2 RDOs equal at least 65 hours free of duty.
5. The ability to refuse any duty changes within 14 days.
Failure to meet these non negotiable strategic imperatives in 14 days will result in PIA which will include refusing to work days off. Refusal of all MELs and full approaches flown including hold on every sector.
Do this and you’ll have a somewhat respectable EA within 6 weeks.
Spot on Aussiedlyboy!
Time for the Magestic chickens to either Grow a set of wings and fight for a decent agreement or simply continue hunting through the waste land looking for the Chip happy working under a rubbish EA that adds fuel to the fire in the total race to the bottom industry we are against.
Time for the Magestic chickens to either Grow a set of wings and fight for a decent agreement or simply continue hunting through the waste land looking for the Chip happy working under a rubbish EA that adds fuel to the fire in the total race to the bottom industry we are against.
Salary Update:
Airline Pilots in the US registered one of the highest average occupational salary increases in 2022, thanks to significant increases in regional pilot compensations.
Details: https://aerocrewnews.com/m2c0
Airline Pilots in the US registered one of the highest average occupational salary increases in 2022, thanks to significant increases in regional pilot compensations.
Details: https://aerocrewnews.com/m2c0
Thread Starter
It’s important for everyone to realise that we may be standing at the precipice of a once in a generation opportunity to actually achieve some improvements in pay and conditions. Other threads indicate that the group is staring at a pretty small and disinterested pool of candidates (did someone say 10 applicants to jq following the latest ad?), the usual demographic problem and, of course, fierce competition from the US and elsewhere. Add to this expansion plans and other AOCs running close to capacity and dare I say we might be in the midst of a pilot shortage? (Maybe only technically so, but the advantage is as good as it gets).
For anyone new to the company I really really suggest reaching out to the union reps (whether or not you are a member- they certainly won’t make any hard sale about recruitment) or experienced crew. All big employers front load agreements with signing bonuses and, as you’d imagine , they reveal all you need to know about how good the underlying proposed agreement is. Although we have good negotiating conditions, there is a very real risk of losing lifestyle and pay here, and it doesn’t matter how much you dig flying a jet, if we don’t do something now, after a year or two your sick leave balance will be the most interesting part of your payslip- that’s a promise.
For anyone new to the company I really really suggest reaching out to the union reps (whether or not you are a member- they certainly won’t make any hard sale about recruitment) or experienced crew. All big employers front load agreements with signing bonuses and, as you’d imagine , they reveal all you need to know about how good the underlying proposed agreement is. Although we have good negotiating conditions, there is a very real risk of losing lifestyle and pay here, and it doesn’t matter how much you dig flying a jet, if we don’t do something now, after a year or two your sick leave balance will be the most interesting part of your payslip- that’s a promise.
Wait for a better offer from a company that values you, not the bottom of the barrel. Sure, they’re getting more a/c but with the money they are offering it’s a false economy. Do the math over 20-30 years, it’s not worth it. Go for days off or money or flying experience, either way right now NAA isn’t ticking any boxes for anyone.
The following 3 users liked this post by kimbobimbo:
It’s important for everyone to realise that we may be standing at the precipice of a once in a generation opportunity to actually achieve some improvements in pay and conditions. Other threads indicate that the group is staring at a pretty small and disinterested pool of candidates (did someone say 10 applicants to jq following the latest ad?), the usual demographic problem and, of course, fierce competition from the US and elsewhere. Add to this expansion plans and other AOCs running close to capacity and dare I say we might be in the midst of a pilot shortage? (Maybe only technically so, but the advantage is as good as it gets).
The now expired by 2.5 years Network EBA consists of 25 pages - The soon to expire (31 August 2023) QF Short Haul EBA consists of 128 pages.
At this time, with everything in your favour and Multi-Employer Bargaining written into law...there is no excuse not to be presented with an EBA which in structure and detail mirrors the QF Short Haul EBA. The company will argue that operations are different and they are, but the protections and provisions sought and deserved are not - take the QF Short Haul EBA, copy the structure and fill in the blanks where there are real and tangible differences.
This is the first step for all group companies to get back on a level playing field, albeit only by protections and provisions. Any laissez fare attempt by a union not to present the pilot body with a well structured and planned EBA as illustrated above should be laughed at. The time to be respected in this industry is now, not tomorrow, not the next EBA. The end of the Financial Year is coming and there are some that will be hard pressed to make their KPI's by getting it signed, so as to secure another bonus and share allocation - don't be fooled.
Prepare now for what they are not telling you, as that is always where the danger in these things lie...think FRMS / International layovers / Red-eye flights / Fleet change...leave no stone unturned.
Good Luck!
The following 12 users liked this post by RealSatoshi:
Spot-on RS and Wales!
You cats have to future-proof this dog before it bites you in the arse.
You cats have to future-proof this dog before it bites you in the arse.
Last edited by Buttscratcher; 27th Mar 2023 at 05:52.
The following users liked this post:
A huge part of the problem is that a large percentage of Pilots at Network have no intension of staying so they are either not in a union or don't care that much. They know QF Sydney is going to throw them under the bus (Alan has already said there is nothing more) so they are already moving to greener pastures or holding out for their mainline start date. Leaving everyone else who would like to stay with "F*** All" support. QF thinks they are saving money, but really, while they are patting themselves on the back, they are killing the goose that lays the golden egg. The rush for the door has already begun. This will adversely effect the whole group, not just Network.
Thread Starter
A huge part of the problem is that a large percentage of Pilots at Network have no intension of staying so they are either not in a union or don't care that much. They know QF Sydney is going to throw them under the bus (Alan has already said there is nothing more) so they are already moving to greener pastures or holding out for their mainline start date. Leaving everyone else who would like to stay with "F*** All" support. QF thinks they are saving money, but really, while they are patting themselves on the back, they are killing the goose that lays the golden egg. The rush for the door has already begun. This will adversely affect the whole group, not just Network.
A huge part of the problem is that a large percentage of Pilots at Network have no intension of staying so they are either not in a union or don't care that much. They know QF Sydney is going to throw them under the bus (Alan has already said there is nothing more) so they are already moving to greener pastures or holding out for their mainline start date. Leaving everyone else who would like to stay with "F*** All" support. QF thinks they are saving money, but really, while they are patting themselves on the back, they are killing the goose that lays the golden egg. The rush for the door has already begun. This will adversely affect the whole group, not just Network.
It epitomises the Gen i attitude. “Won’t be my problem soon, so I’ll just shit on the people who are junior to me and who might work at Network one day in the future.”
It also proves my point earlier in the thread that Australian pilots have zero fkg concept that the lowest denominator on the pecking order controls not only their conditions, but to a large extent, those above them.
If people don’t care because they’re on the mainline hold file, they’re pretty naive - because THEIR conditions at mainline into the future will be determined by how low the bottom of the industry is willing to go.
Make no mistake about it, Network pilots have a huge responsibility with this negotiation.
You only have to look at what happened at NJS. They got butt-hurt and scared with empty threats, and so they caved and signed a shit deal. Straight after, a whole bunch of them left because there was no long term future there. And the ones left behind who didn’t have another plan are dealing with an absolute shit-show. Lastly, now the can has been kicked along the road and all other negotiations for group airlines and other Australian airlines have been made worse.
Please don’t sell out on your mates, and on your own long term future. Stop being selfish children.
Regardless if you’ve got a new job lined up, if you wouldn’t work under those conditions into the future, don’t vote it up. You’re just pissing on the industry as a whole.
You accuse Qantas of killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The real golden egg here is the best bargaining position Australian airline pilots have been in for 30+ years. Network pilots saying “fk you, I’m just gonna look after me” are actually the ones killing the goose.
The following users liked this post:
I’m sorry, but that’s an absolute load of horse shit.
It epitomises the Gen i attitude. “Won’t be my problem soon, so I’ll just shit on the people who are junior to me and who might work at Network one day in the future.”
It also proves my point earlier in the thread that Australian pilots have zero fkg concept that the lowest denominator on the pecking order controls not only their conditions, but to a large extent, those above them.
If people don’t care because they’re on the mainline hold file, they’re pretty naive - because THEIR conditions at mainline into the future will be determined by how low the bottom of the industry is willing to go.
Make no mistake about it, Network pilots have a huge responsibility with this negotiation.
You only have to look at what happened at NJS. They got butt-hurt and scared with empty threats, and so they caved and signed a shit deal. Straight after, a whole bunch of them left because there was no long term future there. And the ones left behind who didn’t have another plan are dealing with an absolute shit-show. Lastly, now the can has been kicked along the road and all other negotiations for group airlines and other Australian airlines have been made worse.
Please don’t sell out on your mates, and on your own long term future. Stop being selfish children.
Regardless if you’ve got a new job lined up, if you wouldn’t work under those conditions into the future, don’t vote it up. You’re just pissing on the industry as a whole.
You accuse Qantas of killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The real golden egg here is the best bargaining position Australian airline pilots have been in for 30+ years. Network pilots saying “fk you, I’m just gonna look after me” are actually the ones killing the goose.
It epitomises the Gen i attitude. “Won’t be my problem soon, so I’ll just shit on the people who are junior to me and who might work at Network one day in the future.”
It also proves my point earlier in the thread that Australian pilots have zero fkg concept that the lowest denominator on the pecking order controls not only their conditions, but to a large extent, those above them.
If people don’t care because they’re on the mainline hold file, they’re pretty naive - because THEIR conditions at mainline into the future will be determined by how low the bottom of the industry is willing to go.
Make no mistake about it, Network pilots have a huge responsibility with this negotiation.
You only have to look at what happened at NJS. They got butt-hurt and scared with empty threats, and so they caved and signed a shit deal. Straight after, a whole bunch of them left because there was no long term future there. And the ones left behind who didn’t have another plan are dealing with an absolute shit-show. Lastly, now the can has been kicked along the road and all other negotiations for group airlines and other Australian airlines have been made worse.
Please don’t sell out on your mates, and on your own long term future. Stop being selfish children.
Regardless if you’ve got a new job lined up, if you wouldn’t work under those conditions into the future, don’t vote it up. You’re just pissing on the industry as a whole.
You accuse Qantas of killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The real golden egg here is the best bargaining position Australian airline pilots have been in for 30+ years. Network pilots saying “fk you, I’m just gonna look after me” are actually the ones killing the goose.
