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Qantas pilot sues the airline for sexual harassment

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Qantas pilot sues the airline for sexual harassment

Old 3rd Nov 2022, 01:29
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Clare Prop View Post
Plenty of female aviation role models past and present. Tokens are not required.
I could list them but there's no need.
The people pushing the "role model" idea remind me of the Tracy Curtis Taylor debacle.

My heroes are Amy Johnson and Neil Armstrong, not because of gender but because they achieved what at the time seemed impossible.

I've read the "the sky would be pink" article, I worked with Louise many years ago, she is certainly one to stand up for herself and as a member of AFAP I'm very happy to have her stand up for me. But that has nothing to do with our gender.

While silly comments about making coffee are annoying, I will add here my only real gender based issue, 30 years ago when a passenger on a charter decided at 9500 feet to get his dick out and have a wank right there in the right hand seat because he "couldn't take his eyes off my legs". After landing I told the boss I was not going to fly with him again and I was sacked on the spot, because "he is our best customer and he can do what he wants". I'm just glad it didn't turn violent.
Wow, That’s amazing!
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Old 3rd Nov 2022, 07:05
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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should certain flying scholarships be available only to women? (I say no, that is discrimination)
The Ninety Nines is a flying organisation for female aviators and they offer various degrees of financial help to their members, and why shouldn't they? Our daughter retired from flying a Titan on single pilot RPT/Charter with about 2,500 total because of children and received a grant from the 99ers in later years towards maintaining currency. Now a manager of safety for a major NT airline, proud parents, and yes we paid for her CPL, instrument and ATPL subjects.

https://www.ninety-nines.org/resources.htm

Those giving the girls flak need to wake up, to call them Neanderthals is to give Neanderthals a bad name, Deb Wardley fought this battle decades ago.
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Old 3rd Nov 2022, 08:27
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
The Ninety Nines is a flying organisation for female aviators and they offer various degrees of financial help to their members, and why shouldn't they? Our daughter retired from flying a Titan on single pilot RPT/Charter with about 2,500 total because of children and received a grant from the 99ers in later years towards maintaining currency. Now a manager of safety for a major NT airline, proud parents, and yes we paid for her CPL, instrument and ATPL subjects.

https://www.ninety-nines.org/resources.htm

Those giving the girls flak need to wake up, to call them Neanderthals is to give Neanderthals a bad name, Deb Wardley fought this battle decades ago.
I’ve no idea what you’re trying to achieve with your post. Who here has given a girl(s) flak? Nobody. Yet here you are straight out of the gate with the ad hominems and a chip on your shoulder.

Good for your daughter. It’s great she has made choices that suit her and her family hey, just like the rest of us. Bet she doesn’t cry victim at every opportunity.
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Old 3rd Nov 2022, 11:22
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Gawd. Now the FAAA is calling for pilot quotas, according to The Aus:

“The Flight Attendants’ Association of Australia has called for Australia’s major airlines to implement gender quotas for pilots, as “more women up the front would have a positive benefit for cabin crew” and help squash the “trolley dolly” stereotype amongst cabin crew.

“Having women (pilots) in authority diminishes gender stereotyping regarding the role of all women on board,” Teri O‘Toole, federal secretary of the FAAA told The Oz. “Female voices from the flight deck can only provide a positive flow on to the authority of cabin crew and recognition that cabin crew , with flight crew, hold responsibility for flight safety
.”

The bloody nerve.

Ok, in that case, I’m going to ask the AFAP and AIPA to call for quotas on the sexuality of flight attendants: to have the ratio of straight vs gay flight attendants accurately reflect that of wider society. Having the correct proportion of straight to gay flight attendants will diminish the sexuality stereotyping of airline crews. Straight voices from the cabin can only provide a positive flow on to the authority of the aircraft’s crew and recognition that cabin crew, with flight crew, hold responsibility for flight safety.

(The last bit is bull-dust. Flight safety is entirely independent of whether the Captain is female or whether the CSM is gay. It is entirely dependent on each’s tech knowledge AND their ability to lead, inspire, communicate. But don’t let those facts get in the way of modern Aus’s stupid woke agendas).

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Old 3rd Nov 2022, 12:05
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Clare Prop View Post
Plenty of female aviation role models past and present. Tokens are not required.
I could list them but there's no need.
The people pushing the "role model" idea remind me of the Tracy Curtis Taylor debacle.

My heroes are Amy Johnson and Neil Armstrong, not because of gender but because they achieved what at the time seemed impossible.

I've read the "the sky would be pink" article, I worked with Louise many years ago, she is certainly one to stand up for herself and as a member of AFAP I'm very happy to have her stand up for me. But that has nothing to do with our gender.

While silly comments about making coffee are annoying, I will add here my only real gender based issue, 30 years ago when a passenger on a charter decided at 9500 feet to get his dick out and have a wank right there in the right hand seat because he "couldn't take his eyes off my legs". After landing I told the boss I was not going to fly with him again and I was sacked on the spot, because "he is our best customer and he can do what he wants". I'm just glad it didn't turn violent.
And you're going to maintain there's no disincentive to women becoming pilots???
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Old 3rd Nov 2022, 13:01
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ushuaia View Post
Gawd. Now the FAAA is calling for pilot quotas, according to The Aus:
The FAAA are powerless to stop their own member’s conditions from being eroded, so their ability to institute any form of quota for those outside their profession will amount to zero. This is just an attempt to get a bit of publicity for themselves.

Heck even the pilot unions would not be able to get quotas instituted if they wanted it.

Like I said before there’s been all this talk of quotas going back at least 10 years or so and at the end of the day the ratio of women recruited is similar to application numbers. There has been an increase in female pilots due to more choosing it in the last 10 years. As the article states it’s up to 14% in the regionals who are taking younger pilots.

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Old 3rd Nov 2022, 16:26
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
Tricky, so you ask a colleague out and he/she says no. When you then have them in the sim does that mean you can’t grade them badly for fear of perception that you are being unfair? It will be hard to link a poor grade to previous sexual advances.
It was their choice to ask that person out. Either the appraisal was accurate and you can point to qualitative evidence or it was discriminatory. Deal with it.
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Old 3rd Nov 2022, 17:55
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Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
No. But there SHOULD be no reason nurses are predominently women or pilots predominently men.
But there is a reason why nurses are predominantly women. They choose to join that profession because it is a job they WANT to do. Men and women have different temperaments apparently, and those differences are manifested in the careers that women and men naturally gravitate towards. Women are more interested in people while men are more interested in things. Hence why men like machines, engineering and for a small portion of the global male population, piloting aircraft. That probably also explains why professions like nursing and teaching, for example, are dominated by women.

500 Fan.
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Old 3rd Nov 2022, 18:46
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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I’ve no idea what you’re trying to achieve with your post. Who here has given a girl(s) flak? Nobody. Yet here you are straight out of the gate with the ad hominems and a chip on your shoulder
So you're saying Louise Pole's allegations are nonsense. And your comprehension requires attention, show me where I said folk on here has given Gals flak. You're not Hempy with a new alias? Chip on the shoulder, no, but it sounds like you are well balanced, a chip on each.
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Old 3rd Nov 2022, 23:57
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
So you're saying Louise Pole's allegations are nonsense. And your comprehension requires attention, show me where I said folk on here has given Gals flak. You're not Hempy with a new alias? Chip on the shoulder, no, but it sounds like you are well balanced, a chip on each.
The internet is littered with people like you, so I chose my words carefully. You’re a bully.

You turn up to fora such as this and inject yourself into the debate with a barely relevant anecdote, to attempt to cover what you really came here for. To make yourself feel better by trying to make others feel bad. Throw around a few cliched insults, then feign some indignation when you get called on it, safe in the knowledge that there will be a few white knights (a couple on this thread - I’m sure you’ve identified them) to ride to your rescue to save you from the big bad bloke who called you out on your bullying. Then, straight to some usually, male authority figure to whinge and sook about how bad you’ve been treated having been called out.

Ive concede I’ve made a few assumptions in this reply, but I reckon I’m on the money here.
Never fear, my point is not gendered. There are plenty of males on this forum and the internet generally who exhibit exactly the same traits.

You have a lovely day ok? I suspect you plan otherwise however.

Balance because of a chip on each shoulder? 🤷‍♂️ That cliche is pretty stupid when you think about it - and there lies the problem for the people that do.

Last edited by twentyelevens; 4th Nov 2022 at 00:26.
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Old 4th Nov 2022, 00:50
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by twentyelevens View Post
Sensitive aren’t we.
This you?
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Old 4th Nov 2022, 01:10
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
This you?
Nah buddy.

There is this however. Like clockwork.
there will be a few white knights (a couple on this thread - I’m sure you’ve identified them) to ride to your rescue
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Old 4th Nov 2022, 01:29
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Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
This you?
This gave me a good chuckle
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Old 4th Nov 2022, 04:03
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Originally Posted by Wizofoz View Post
And you're going to maintain there's no disincentive to women becoming pilots???
Yes because that sort of thing could, and has, happened in other workplaces and situations as well. It's not specific to aviation.
More to do with the era I was born into when people thought scantily clad girls running away from pervs and double entendres were "comedy"
Thankfully a lot of the crap I had to put up with as a schoolgirl and later as an employee and student pilot is now illegal.
People complaining about a remark about making coffee and pink skies should be grateful they know what it was like being sexually assaulted during a flying lesson and then when reporting it to the CFI being told to stop being a prude and he does that to all the girls....and no, that wasn't going to make me give up.

The world is a much better place now
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Old 4th Nov 2022, 04:16
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Interesting in America that the airlines are actively looking to recruit from demographics that traditionally have not been largely represented within the pilot body. Latinos, African Americans, and other groups that are on the lower socio economic scale. They have ditched the requirement for degrees and are looking to even fund the training so as to attract people who will make excellent airline pilots but economic barriers have prevented them from applying. When people are talking about making aviation in Australia more equal they are mainly talking about Caucasian females from middle class backgrounds having equal numbers in the flight deck to Caucasian middle class males.
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Old 4th Nov 2022, 05:45
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Sensitive aren’t we
Quite an ironic post that I never got to see, seems our balanced chap deleted it, his posts on this thread show that he likes to take the bat to every body. Gave me a good chuckle as well cx.
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Old 4th Nov 2022, 07:53
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The internet is littered with people like you, so I chose my words carefully. You’re a bully.

You turn up to fora such as this and inject yourself into the debate with a barely relevant anecdote, to attempt to cover what you really came here for. To make yourself feel better by trying to make others feel bad. Throw around a few cliched insults, then feign some indignation when you get called on it, safe in the knowledge that there will be a few white knights (a couple on this thread - I’m sure you’ve identified them) to ride to your rescue to save you from the big bad bloke who called you out on your bullying. Then, straight to some usually, male authority figure to whinge and sook about how bad you’ve been treated having been called out.

Ive concede I’ve made a few assumptions in this reply, but I reckon I’m on the money here.
Never fear, my point is not gendered. There are plenty of males on this forum and the internet generally who exhibit exactly the same traits.

You have a lovely day ok? I suspect you plan otherwise however.

Balance because of a chip on each shoulder? 🤷‍♂️ That cliche is pretty stupid when you think about it - and there lies the problem for the people that do.
Wholly Katz, Twentyelevens, what a weird post.

What Megan said was "Those giving the girls flak need to wake up", referring to the idiots in the cockpit who caused the problem at the start. You jump on and make strange accusations.

Have a cup of tea and a Bex and a good lie down, you will be better soon.
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Old 4th Nov 2022, 08:24
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by twentyelevens View Post
Nah buddy.

There is this however. Like clockwork.
'White Knight" of course being a way to attack WHO is arguing, rather WHAT they are arguing.
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Old 4th Nov 2022, 08:28
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Clare Prop View Post
Yes because that sort of thing could, and has, happened in other workplaces and situations as well. It's not specific to aviation.
More to do with the era I was born into when people thought scantily clad girls running away from pervs and double entendres were "comedy"
Thankfully a lot of the crap I had to put up with as a schoolgirl and later as an employee and student pilot is now illegal.
People complaining about a remark about making coffee and pink skies should be grateful they know what it was like being sexually assaulted during a flying lesson and then when reporting it to the CFI being told to stop being a prude and he does that to all the girls....and no, that wasn't going to make me give up.

The world is a much better place now
And, if you look at the various attitudes expressed here, what sort of person made it a better place?
And are you saying the change is complete, or is there still work to be done?
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Old 4th Nov 2022, 08:30
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
Interesting in America that the airlines are actively looking to recruit from demographics that traditionally have not been largely represented within the pilot body. Latinos, African Americans, and other groups that are on the lower socio economic scale. They have ditched the requirement for degrees and are looking to even fund the training so as to attract people who will make excellent airline pilots but economic barriers have prevented them from applying. When people are talking about making aviation in Australia more equal they are mainly talking about Caucasian females from middle class backgrounds having equal numbers in the flight deck to Caucasian middle class males.
Great point. But you can bet, if and when that happens here, the same choir will be decrying it.
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