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QF Short Haul EBA

Old 13th Apr 2022, 14:02
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Originally Posted by What The View Post
Terrible response. “If you don’t like it, leave”.
Well that’s what happened in LH isn’t it? I hear some were not happy with the deal for the 787 so they’ve declined a promotion into that aircraft, which has seen then stay where they are and that available position given to someone more junior. The same will probably happen to the 350 too.

The changes being sought, in my opinion, are minor with the possible exception of the FRMS issue which I won’t comment on as not enough information has been presented yet.

It’s not like they’re asking for a 30% pay cut for 30% more work, or pay for your own endorsement, or days off in slip ports, or part time conditions or some of the other things that have been sought in various companies in recent years.

So as much as some vocal types really want revenge, I think more people would hope our association and the company will continue negotiations (that’s what was indicated on the email) to find a mutual solution.
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Old 13th Apr 2022, 14:07
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Originally Posted by What The View Post
So Dr Dre and Morno have been exposed as stooges.

Never to be trusted.
Lay off the red big fella
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 13:58
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Lay off the Koolaid
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 14:50
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It must be shit to be so angry all the time.

Who cares
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 15:21
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
I think we just all need to calm down a bit, so far we don’t know the actual variations to be sought in order to secure the A321 for mainline.
Is this how everyone actually thinks? That the pilot EBA is the determining factor in whether or not the company "secure" aircraft for mainline?
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Old 15th Apr 2022, 23:49
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I believe the the A220 order was also subject to screwing pilots down as low as possible. The impression I got was that if the NJS guys voted this unilateral agreement down, the order would not be placed. This puts QF in a weird position in a couple of ways. First, the whole green airline thing means they have to renew the fleet. Second, once the 717 is retired, which by current reliability rates is going to be soon, QF won’t have much of a regional jet presence. In a time where green is good and there are regional jet start ups who will gladly take that market share off QF, I think it’s time for the hipsters to put and end to their futile war against the only group of people qualified to save their airline.
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Old 16th Apr 2022, 00:03
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You’d have to be quite dull not to realise there is simply no spare pilots available for QF to start new A220 and A321 companies and their only solution is to have NJS and SH operate the ‘yet to be ordered or confirmed’ new aircraft.
Tell me did you see the Qantas - Alliance 18+ aircraft E190 deal coming, or was that a surprise to you?

Second, once the 717 is retired, which by current reliability rates is going to be soon, QF won’t have much of a regional jet presence.
You mean other than the 18+ E190 aircraft?
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Old 16th Apr 2022, 00:04
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So the Qantas narrative so far is: agree to our non negotiable strategic imperatives asap and we might order some aircraft at some point in the future. If you don't agree then we might get someone else to operate the aircraft that we might order if or when we do.

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Old 16th Apr 2022, 00:07
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That sounds like an excellent summary Lapon.
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Old 16th Apr 2022, 00:23
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
Tell me did you see the Qantas - Alliance 18+ aircraft E190 deal coming, or was that a surprise to you?

You mean other than the 18+ E190 aircraft?
18+ ageing aircraft which don’t meet the green, new fleet imperative. And if you have a look at how well Alliance are doing at retaining pilots, I think you’ll see that they can’t do the job either.
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Old 16th Apr 2022, 05:18
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
Lay off the red big fella
When did you become a skygod and join QF morno?

Oh that’s right, you didn’t…you’re just here to troll.
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Old 16th Apr 2022, 06:56
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Well I actually came in here to try and knock some sense into you old codgers, but it appears that’s too hard and you all fight with each other anyway and call everyone who has an opposing view a “Qantas angel”.

I genuinely do wish you all luck in your fight, but you’re not going to get anywhere if you can’t look beyond your rage and be constructive in your negotiations. Yes you’re fighting an uphill battle, but so far I’m seeing the company win big time if you have people like those above doing the negotiating.

Play smart and United, not with rage and division.
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Old 16th Apr 2022, 08:49
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
Well I actually came in here to try and knock some sense into you old codgers, but it appears that’s too hard and you all fight with each other anyway and call everyone who has an opposing view a “Qantas angel”.

I genuinely do wish you all luck in your fight, but you’re not going to get anywhere if you can’t look beyond your rage and be constructive in your negotiations. Yes you’re fighting an uphill battle, but so far I’m seeing the company win big time if you have people like those above doing the negotiating.

Play smart and United, not with rage and division.
Old codger? I wish! If I was then maybe I wouldn’t need to be so concerned with the outcome of these “negotiations”.

As aussieflyboy says, once it becomes a negotiation instead of the Company demanding everything, we might have a chance!
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Old 16th Apr 2022, 15:21
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy View Post
For the last 9 weeks NJS pilots have been told exactly this.

”If you don’t meet our ‘SI (embarrassing name for company requirements)’ NJS will not get the A220 and you will be made redundant when the B717 is retired”

Fortunately what I’m hearing is most NJS pilots are not ‘Qantas Angels’ having been rejected by QF many years ago (and hired by NJS/Cobham) and will not bend the knee. ‘Negotiations’ have stalled…

You’d have to be quite dull not to realise there is simply no spare pilots available for QF to start new A220 and A321 companies and their only solution is to have NJS and SH operate the ‘yet to be ordered or confirmed’ new aircraft.
What an absolute crock (not you aussieflyboy, the sentiment). No worries just shut the NJS AOC down that you only recently purchased. Give the flying to a competitor.
I can understand why we, as employees with a typically massively over inflated sense of self importance, could be lead down the garden path into thinking we're the reason for an aircraft order happening or not.. Getting the aircraft either stacks up or it doesn't, the pilot cost is little more than a footnote in the business case. Same applies for shorthaul mainline.
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Old 16th Apr 2022, 23:07
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Is the AIPA constructing an agreement for an aircraft that is yet to be ordered or is the AFAP out there going it alone???
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Old 16th Apr 2022, 23:43
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This has been Qantas’s method of negotiation for a decade. Agree on terms and then we will order the aircraft. It is not to say they won’t order the aircraft without the pilots agreement, but the threat is that another group of pilots will fly them.

The threat was extremely overt with the last LHEA. The CEO was pushing the threat via the media and talking of specific pilots who wanted to do the flying for less.

The threat with the Winton aircraft is a little more subtle but possibly more real because they already have ready trained crew in-house. There are multiple pilot groups in The Group beyond ‘mainline’ already flying the A320 and there are multiple pilot groups flying as QantasLink who’d probably be thrilled to get 20 A220’s.

So no, pilots don’t think the order hinges on themselves but the decision as to who flys them could be effected by the outcome of these negotiations.
That being said, we all have to stand up for our worth and vote no to a bad deal.
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Old 17th Apr 2022, 00:00
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Originally Posted by Beer Baron View Post
This has been Qantas’s method of negotiation for a decade. Agree on terms and then we will order the aircraft. It is not to say they won’t order the aircraft without the pilots agreement, but the threat is that another group of pilots will fly them.
Seems intuitive. Why put in place a ‘deadline’ for negotiations by setting a date the first aircraft arrives? Keeps the pilot bargaining position weak.
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Old 18th Apr 2022, 14:12
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Originally Posted by What The View Post
So Dr Dre and Morno have been exposed as stooges.

Never to be trusted.
Not sure about Dr Dre, but Morno is definitely a stooge. Morno already conceded that pilots don't need to earn decent money. These are the sycophants that turned this industry into the bum fight it is today.
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Old 18th Apr 2022, 21:32
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Originally Posted by deja vu View Post
Not sure about Dr Dre, but Morno is definitely a stooge. Morno already conceded that pilots don't need to earn decent money. These are the sycophants that turned this industry into the bum fight it is today.
Haha, did I just? Would you like to quote that?

If you don’t call $230k+ “decent money”, you are seriously in need of a reality check.

I’m all for good pay, but I believe the context you are looking for, is when someone suggested that we should be earning $460k+ (Double what we earn now I believe were the words used). That’s just unrealistic. Good luck to you trying to get that, but you can take half the jobs in the industry with you.
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Old 18th Apr 2022, 22:35
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
(Double what we earn now I believe were the words used). That’s just unrealistic.
About as unrealistic as the corporate greed?
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