QF Short Haul EBA
Well that’s what happened in LH isn’t it? I hear some were not happy with the deal for the 787 so they’ve declined a promotion into that aircraft, which has seen then stay where they are and that available position given to someone more junior. The same will probably happen to the 350 too.
The changes being sought, in my opinion, are minor with the possible exception of the FRMS issue which I won’t comment on as not enough information has been presented yet.
It’s not like they’re asking for a 30% pay cut for 30% more work, or pay for your own endorsement, or days off in slip ports, or part time conditions or some of the other things that have been sought in various companies in recent years.
So as much as some vocal types really want revenge, I think more people would hope our association and the company will continue negotiations (that’s what was indicated on the email) to find a mutual solution.
The changes being sought, in my opinion, are minor with the possible exception of the FRMS issue which I won’t comment on as not enough information has been presented yet.
It’s not like they’re asking for a 30% pay cut for 30% more work, or pay for your own endorsement, or days off in slip ports, or part time conditions or some of the other things that have been sought in various companies in recent years.
So as much as some vocal types really want revenge, I think more people would hope our association and the company will continue negotiations (that’s what was indicated on the email) to find a mutual solution.
It must be **** to be so angry all the time.
Who cares
Who cares
Is this how everyone actually thinks? That the pilot EBA is the determining factor in whether or not the company "secure" aircraft for mainline?
I believe the the A220 order was also subject to screwing pilots down as low as possible. The impression I got was that if the NJS guys voted this unilateral agreement down, the order would not be placed. This puts QF in a weird position in a couple of ways. First, the whole green airline thing means they have to renew the fleet. Second, once the 717 is retired, which by current reliability rates is going to be soon, QF won’t have much of a regional jet presence. In a time where green is good and there are regional jet start ups who will gladly take that market share off QF, I think it’s time for the hipsters to put and end to their futile war against the only group of people qualified to save their airline.
You’d have to be quite dull not to realise there is simply no spare pilots available for QF to start new A220 and A321 companies and their only solution is to have NJS and SH operate the ‘yet to be ordered or confirmed’ new aircraft.
Second, once the 717 is retired, which by current reliability rates is going to be soon, QF won’t have much of a regional jet presence.
So the Qantas narrative so far is: agree to our non negotiable strategic imperatives asap and we might order some aircraft at some point in the future. If you don't agree then we might get someone else to operate the aircraft that we might order if or when we do. 
Well I actually came in here to try and knock some sense into you old codgers, but it appears that’s too hard and you all fight with each other anyway and call everyone who has an opposing view a “Qantas angel”.
I genuinely do wish you all luck in your fight, but you’re not going to get anywhere if you can’t look beyond your rage and be constructive in your negotiations. Yes you’re fighting an uphill battle, but so far I’m seeing the company win big time if you have people like those above doing the negotiating.
Play smart and United, not with rage and division.
I genuinely do wish you all luck in your fight, but you’re not going to get anywhere if you can’t look beyond your rage and be constructive in your negotiations. Yes you’re fighting an uphill battle, but so far I’m seeing the company win big time if you have people like those above doing the negotiating.
Play smart and United, not with rage and division.
Well I actually came in here to try and knock some sense into you old codgers, but it appears that’s too hard and you all fight with each other anyway and call everyone who has an opposing view a “Qantas angel”.
I genuinely do wish you all luck in your fight, but you’re not going to get anywhere if you can’t look beyond your rage and be constructive in your negotiations. Yes you’re fighting an uphill battle, but so far I’m seeing the company win big time if you have people like those above doing the negotiating.
Play smart and United, not with rage and division.
I genuinely do wish you all luck in your fight, but you’re not going to get anywhere if you can’t look beyond your rage and be constructive in your negotiations. Yes you’re fighting an uphill battle, but so far I’m seeing the company win big time if you have people like those above doing the negotiating.
Play smart and United, not with rage and division.
As aussieflyboy says, once it becomes a negotiation instead of the Company demanding everything, we might have a chance!
For the last 9 weeks NJS pilots have been told exactly this.
”If you don’t meet our ‘SI (embarrassing name for company requirements)’ NJS will not get the A220 and you will be made redundant when the B717 is retired”
Fortunately what I’m hearing is most NJS pilots are not ‘Qantas Angels’ having been rejected by QF many years ago (and hired by NJS/Cobham) and will not bend the knee. ‘Negotiations’ have stalled…
You’d have to be quite dull not to realise there is simply no spare pilots available for QF to start new A220 and A321 companies and their only solution is to have NJS and SH operate the ‘yet to be ordered or confirmed’ new aircraft.
”If you don’t meet our ‘SI (embarrassing name for company requirements)’ NJS will not get the A220 and you will be made redundant when the B717 is retired”
Fortunately what I’m hearing is most NJS pilots are not ‘Qantas Angels’ having been rejected by QF many years ago (and hired by NJS/Cobham) and will not bend the knee. ‘Negotiations’ have stalled…
You’d have to be quite dull not to realise there is simply no spare pilots available for QF to start new A220 and A321 companies and their only solution is to have NJS and SH operate the ‘yet to be ordered or confirmed’ new aircraft.
I can understand why we, as employees with a typically massively over inflated sense of self importance, could be lead down the garden path into thinking we're the reason for an aircraft order happening or not.. Getting the aircraft either stacks up or it doesn't, the pilot cost is little more than a footnote in the business case. Same applies for shorthaul mainline.
This has been Qantas’s method of negotiation for a decade. Agree on terms and then we will order the aircraft. It is not to say they won’t order the aircraft without the pilots agreement, but the threat is that another group of pilots will fly them.
The threat was extremely overt with the last LHEA. The CEO was pushing the threat via the media and talking of specific pilots who wanted to do the flying for less.
The threat with the Winton aircraft is a little more subtle but possibly more real because they already have ready trained crew in-house. There are multiple pilot groups in The Group beyond ‘mainline’ already flying the A320 and there are multiple pilot groups flying as QantasLink who’d probably be thrilled to get 20 A220’s.
So no, pilots don’t think the order hinges on themselves but the decision as to who flys them could be effected by the outcome of these negotiations.
That being said, we all have to stand up for our worth and vote no to a bad deal.
The threat was extremely overt with the last LHEA. The CEO was pushing the threat via the media and talking of specific pilots who wanted to do the flying for less.
The threat with the Winton aircraft is a little more subtle but possibly more real because they already have ready trained crew in-house. There are multiple pilot groups in The Group beyond ‘mainline’ already flying the A320 and there are multiple pilot groups flying as QantasLink who’d probably be thrilled to get 20 A220’s.
So no, pilots don’t think the order hinges on themselves but the decision as to who flys them could be effected by the outcome of these negotiations.
That being said, we all have to stand up for our worth and vote no to a bad deal.
Seems intuitive. Why put in place a ‘deadline’ for negotiations by setting a date the first aircraft arrives? Keeps the pilot bargaining position weak.
Not sure about Dr Dre, but Morno is definitely a stooge. Morno already conceded that pilots don't need to earn decent money. These are the sycophants that turned this industry into the bum fight it is today.
If you don’t call $230k+ “decent money”, you are seriously in need of a reality check.
I’m all for good pay, but I believe the context you are looking for, is when someone suggested that we should be earning $460k+ (Double what we earn now I believe were the words used). That’s just unrealistic. Good luck to you trying to get that, but you can take half the jobs in the industry with you.