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New 'Bonza' LCC launches middle 2022 with B737 MAX

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New 'Bonza' LCC launches middle 2022 with B737 MAX

Old 17th Jun 2022, 11:16
  #461 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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And of course there are well dressed F/Os who cant fly a stick up a dog's arse - but at least to the public he looks like he can.
What on Earth does that mean? Who flies sticks where and why and the dogs, think of the dogs...

Now I'm starting to realise why dog anxiety is on the rise.
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 12:29
  #462 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rodney rude View Post
Das Uber you stun me. "You realise you drive a bus/" In one short (stupid) statement you have entirely destroyed the concept of pilot remuneration
Pilot remuneration is dictated by market forces, not whether I wear a tie to work. You seem to believe that 'prestige' has a part to play in what we are paid. If we are talking stupid statements, you just hit the jackpot. When the mining crunch was in full swing people at McDonalds were making 80k. Train drivers 350k and more. What you do is irrelevant, how diffucilt you are to replace is what dictates how much you get paid. The rest is self important drivel.


Originally Posted by rodney rude View Post
Should we be paid $72k like a bus driver?
Refer above

Originally Posted by rodney rude View Post
You've probably been on these forums pontificating about why pilots must keep remuneration levels commensurate with the responsibilities, the non benign airborne environment, the years of study, hours building and qualifications earned (bus driver??), the checking regime, the medical standards. etc etc.
Nope. Want to have another go?

Originally Posted by rodney rude View Post
We are not JUST bus drivers.
True, we are incredibly narcissistic, self entitled bus drivers. News flash kid. What we do isn't difficult, it doesn't require a towering IQ, kids with a single year of training can do it and do do it, just fine. You are not special. You sound like one of these sad figures who pours their entire identity into this job, then dies 2 years after retirement.

Originally Posted by rodney rude View Post
As for the uniform, your argument is flawed. Sure, a uniform does not make you fly better. Fly in the nude for all I care - it won't affect how you fly. But the uniform is about PUBLIC PERCEPTION and that is all. It is about making you and your airline looking the part, looking professional - looking like the kind of well studied, competent flyer that the nervous flyer wants to trust. I sit in terminals and often look at uniform standards. When I see the guy with tie on but dragged 6 inches down with the top button undone, no jacket on, shirt pulled out a bit, hat under the arm - I think slob, I think bad attitude, I think lazy piece of shit. Not the guy I want flying me as he looks like he hasn't opened a book in 30 years and wouldn't know his memory items or limitations. My point is, he may know them all perfectly, he may fly like a bird, he may be a great guy - but to the public in the terminal, he looks like he's just stepped out of the Bruisers Arms in Blacktown at 2 am on a Saturday morning. If you think that's ok Das, you are better suited to lollypop man on the Princes Highway.
Nice straw man. I haven't argued that you should show up to work filthy and looking like you're homeless. I wear my uniform correctly. I'm arguing that the histrionics regarding the bonza uniform is typical self important pilot tripe. Not wearing a tie is not the death of the profession. The same clowns carried on about virgin's launch uniform with the bomber jackets and relaxed approach and they did just fine. Infact it wasn't until the great rebranding and 'professional appearance' push did the wheels start to fall off.
​​​
Originally Posted by rodney rude View Post
I saw a VA crew come out of the aerobridge recently - F/O looked immaculate - hat on, jacket done up, tie done up. The other guy - I assume captain - but he had no jacket, no wings, no tie, no epaulettes, no hat, just a withe shirt and a nav bag. Great attitude mate. F/O looked like a keen young guy who I would trust. But hey, he's just a bus driver isn't he Das.
Are you even a pilot? Who doesn't know that de identifying is standard practice when paxxing? Love the irony of you lecturing me about perception when you clearly don't have the first clue of what you're even looking at.

10 bucks says this bloke asks the pax if they want a signed copy of his book when he takes crew rest.
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 12:32
  #463 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
So... an Air bus? What a ridiculous term, nobody would ever refer to plane with such an expression right? ..... right?!?

wait a minute..

it's hilarious how seriously some of you lot take yourselves. You drive a bus, you're not rocket surgeons. The bonza uniform isn't to my taste, so I manage that by simply not applying. It's that easy. If a 22 year old can fly an F35 wearing little more than a green garbage bag, I'm sure the great and distinguished profession of disconnecting the autopilot at 100ft and 'sort of' flaring will survive some tin pot operator going easy on the sacrosanct dress standards. Deary me.
You're right, they're not rocket surgeons. BTW, what's a rocket surgeon ?

I've heard of rocket scientists and brain surgeons though.




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Old 17th Jun 2022, 12:36
  #464 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TWT View Post
You're right, they're not rocket surgeons. BTW, What's a rocket surgeon ?

I've heard of rocket scientists and brain surgeons though.
You people don't get outside much do you.



It's a joke, a widely known component of this brand new thing called 'popular culture'.
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 12:38
  #465 (permalink)  
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Mixed metaphors are no joke, I'm sorry
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 12:40
  #466 (permalink)  
 
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You must be fun at parties.
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 12:53
  #467 (permalink)  
 
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As a bus driver I'm deeply offended that you compare pilots to my profession. But in all seriousness you only call a pilot a bus driver if you want to degrade them, which also says you are pompous enough to say that bus drivers are some how some lower form of employment. I don't think of myself above or below bus drivers or whatever, it's a completely different job with different challenges. I have respect for good bus drivers (having worked the job and alongside them) as much as I respect good pilots. When you see a driver navigate traffic with mm to spare from obstacles at a pace to keep schedule and not swap paint, pull in and out of traffic confidently without passengers falling all over the shop and picking lines through roundabouts that don't mount curbs and knock over signs then they are doing good.
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 13:33
  #468 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
As a bus driver I'm deeply offended that you compare pilots to my profession. But in all seriousness you only call a pilot a bus driver if you want to degrade them, which also says you are pompous enough to say that bus drivers are some how some lower form of employment. I don't think of myself above or below bus drivers or whatever, it's a completely different job with different challenges. I have respect for good bus drivers (having worked the job and alongside them) as much as I respect good pilots. When you see a driver navigate traffic with mm to spare from obstacles at a pace to keep schedule and not swap paint, pull in and out of traffic confidently without passengers falling all over the shop and picking lines through roundabouts that don't mount curbs and knock over signs then they are doing good.
Bus drivers being a lower form of employment is literally the argument being explicitly made by several people in this thread. No complaint from you. Funny that. Meanwhile, as I argue that pilots and bus drivers are on the same level (which they are, it's basically the same job) , you somehow manage to conflate this with me declaring the opposite, to which you've drawn issue.

Take a bow.

So much salt that I don't hold your precious title in the reverence you think it deserves. Is your social media profile photo in uniform? Is that the issue? Do you have PILOTGRL numberplates? Let me guess, your credit card name starts with "Captain".

Back to reality. It's a job. You're not special. Bus drivers are cool.


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Old 17th Jun 2022, 13:34
  #469 (permalink)  
 
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how difficult you are to replace is what dictates how much you get paid. The rest is self important drivel
Everything you say in your post is 100% accurate, sadly.

Bonza's bullshit regarding their uniform is embarrassing. The uniform of an airline pilot is important. How you present yourself as a professional is important, regardless of how good or bad you are as a pilot. At least aim for a standard. A high one.

If you're in GA tangling with oil, fuel and all of the other rubbish, a professional uniform is one that reflects the reality of the job.

If I'm jumping on a Part 121 service, some d!ckhead wearing Dunlop Volleys because the bigger d!ckhead (CEO) is trying to prove to their financier that they're the new Richard Branson doesn't cut it with me or probably, the punter.

You don't prove yourself as an airline by wanky gimmicks, you prove yourself by profit, customer service and long term longevity, not ****en idiots trying to look cool in stupid wiggles like uniforms.
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 13:41
  #470 (permalink)  
 
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Funny that. Meanwhile, as I argue that pilots and bus drivers are on the same level (which they are, it's basically the same job)
Are you actually an airline pilot? You're not seriously suggesting that a bus driver does what you do? Bus drivers deal with a lot of shit, a seriously stress full job, but it ain't even close to what an airline pilot deals with and the skills they have achieved. The stress you deal with as an airline pilot becomes normalised through everyday exposure to high level decision making. A bus driver deals with [email protected] in Holden Barinas and Toyota Hilux's
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 13:56
  #471 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tossbag View Post
Are you actually an airline pilot? You're not seriously suggesting that a bus driver does what you do? Bus drivers deal with a lot of shit, a seriously stress full job, but it ain't even close to what an airline pilot deals with and the skills they have achieved.
22 years, I drive a widebody.

You can go from zero to a control seat of a 240 pax airliner with a year of training. Last time I checked it takes 4 years to even become an accountant. Just how qualified do you think you are?

As for bus drivers, what they do isn't easy. They are responsible for the safety of their passengers. They have to operate in an environment saturated in threats. We do things they don't. They do things we don't, but end of the day, it's the same sport. Put people in big metal container and deliver them safely somewhere else.
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 14:15
  #472 (permalink)  
 
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You can go from zero to a control seat of a 240 pax airliner with a year of training.
Not in Australia brutha, to suggest otherwise is disengenuous.

Just how qualified do you think you are?
At what? As a pilot I'm at the medium to top end. I have other qualifications. I'm not a bus driver, but an accident in a bus at 80k ain't the same as an accident in a bus at 130kt, best case, M.080 worst case.

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Old 17th Jun 2022, 15:02
  #473 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tossbag View Post
Not in Australia brutha, to suggest otherwise is disengenuous.
Of course, only Australia knows boats! That got a laugh out of me. Regardless, a JQ cadet course isn't far off, maybe an additional 6 months? It's sfa, and still less than half the time required to even be an accountant.

Originally Posted by tossbag View Post
At what? As a pilot I'm at the medium to top end. I have other qualifications.
An honour to meet a real life rocket surgeon.

Originally Posted by tossbag View Post
I'm not a bus driver, but an accident in a bus at 80k ain't the same as an accident in a bus at 130kt, best case, M.080 worst case.
Interesting statement, given nearly twice as many people died in Australias worst bus crash vs Australias worst plane crash.

This argument is boring now. If you think being a pilot makes you special, you're deluded. Feel free to fight amongst yourselves.
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 19:30
  #474 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tossbag View Post
Not in Australia brutha, to suggest otherwise is disengenuous.
This right here is proving Das’s point. This is part of the Austronaut culture where if you have flown a clapped out 210 in the middle of nowhere for 5 years, that you’re somehow incapable of being a real pilot and lack the decision making and manipulation skills to fly IFR in a highly automated jet.

Somehow the rest of the world can let low hour guys and gals jump into a control seat however in Aus, they wouldn’t be considered ‘real pilots’.

Pilots in Australia need a reality check. It’s a job, we’re all replaceable. Look at how many pilots the QF academy is currently pumping out. The majority of candidates will be capable of jumping into the right hand seat of a turbo prop or a jet with no issues.

If you want an ego, go become a lawyer, surgeon, heck join aviation management. They get paid the big bucks because their skills and experience are tightly held. Not everyone wants or has what it takes to study for 10-15 years to get a consultant/barrister level.

The only hurdles to getting a pilots license are costs and holding a medical. Although the cost problem has now disappeared with vet fee.
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 20:58
  #475 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Red69 View Post
This right here is proving Das’s point. This is part of the Austronaut culture where if you have flown a clapped out 210 in the middle of nowhere for 5 years, that you’re somehow incapable of being a real pilot and lack the decision making and manipulation skills to fly IFR in a highly automated jet.

Somehow the rest of the world can let low hour guys and gals jump into a control seat however in Aus, they wouldn’t be considered ‘real pilots’.

Pilots in Australia need a reality check. It’s a job, we’re all replaceable. Look at how many pilots the QF academy is currently pumping out. The majority of candidates will be capable of jumping into the right hand seat of a turbo prop or a jet with no issues.

If you want an ego, go become a lawyer, surgeon, heck join aviation management. They get paid the big bucks because their skills and experience are tightly held. Not everyone wants or has what it takes to study for 10-15 years to get a consultant/barrister level.
An obvious cadet comment here. A true battler knows the benefits of GA. Unfortunately people like this are finding their way into airlines now after many years mowing the grass for a Rex manager and now get to vote on workplace agreements…
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 21:54
  #476 (permalink)  
 
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Das - you are the master at missing the point. I agree with you one hundred percent, what we do isn't hard. How we do it is not affected by how we dress. but...........aah, I can't be bothered.

Why can't you engage in debate without slinging shit like me signing autographs of my books etc? We're having a debate. I said your comments stun me, you throw insults. And you're throwing insults at others. Good job.

To answer you question, am I even an airline pilot - well firstly, I've retired at 58. But just a quick snapshot from the CV
B747-400
A330
A320
Bae 146
Falcon 900
Westwind
Challenger 604/605
13 years RAAF

Now, are you gunna buy a copy of my book or not?
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 22:08
  #477 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy View Post
An obvious cadet comment here. A true battler knows the benefits of GA. Unfortunately people like this are finding their way into airlines now after many years mowing the grass for a Rex manager and now get to vote on workplace agreements…
Not a cadet, just a realist who can see what’s happening in this industry. I trust you don’t fly any European or Asian airlines as their pilots haven’t battled through GA to meet strict Austronaut standards?
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 22:29
  #478 (permalink)  
 
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How long to train to be PIC of a 60 seat bus?
6 months?

Last edited by chookcooker; 17th Jun 2022 at 22:47.
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 22:35
  #479 (permalink)  
 
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Well, in Kweenslairnd, it takes 2 years to become a train driver, and only after you have worked on trains before.
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Old 17th Jun 2022, 23:26
  #480 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Red69 View Post
Not a cadet, just a realist who can see what’s happening in this industry. I trust you don’t fly any European or Asian airlines as their pilots haven’t battled through GA to meet strict Austronaut standards?
I’ve flown with cadets/MPL both here and Asia, and the logic is much the same. As long as things stay on the rails, they are fine. When things start falling outside of the box, then we have problems and my workload increases greatly, they are pretty much useless to me.

I would much prefer the person next to me had made all those silly mistakes in the Piper or Baron, vs next to me flying a 180 seat airliner. At the end of the day the whole point is to mass produce numbers aka pilots, with a good product in a minimum timeframe. Due to the automation of this day, the ability for low time pilots to constantly fumble has been eliminated, which is all that management care about. However when the automation sh!ts itself high in the sky, I need someone next to me that can do what I ask, react as required. I’ve seen and experienced that on one occasion, reaction was poor, clueless, struggled with the basics when I needed them. The training department apologised and sent them back to the sim. Problem apparently now averted.

I have seen many cockups in Asia from these programs. Now if only they all got reported.
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