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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

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QF Group possible Redundancy Numbers/Packages

Old 17th Jul 2020, 10:48
  #921 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Gladstone
Age: 44
Posts: 90
Imagine being on a flight deck with Normanton and Telfer...wowee absolute flogs.

Lets hope there are two CR's made...how these twits get through has me stumped!!

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Old 17th Jul 2020, 10:50
  #922 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1
Well said mmmbop. I've received a few texts today with photos of their posts and a few choice words attached. I can't imagine being brand, brand new and posting such arrogant stuff when you've been around for a second. Had a go at me regarding credibility but it's on show in spades here.

I said it a few days ago but here we go again - do whatever you want. But don't do it thinking you're going to jump someone in the next few years and certainly don't do the ring-around trying to convince people (that are supposed to be your mates) of what you've simply made up with zero relevant information and completely against AIPA's stance of just a few hours ago. Again, I'm no fan of (the current) union but considering they've folded on nearly every fight over the last year or so, do you think they've had a change of heart overnight and gone rogue?

The timeline you've made up (or worse, believed TLS) is completely wrong and doesn't exist anywhere. They must reduce any and all CRs by the use of LWOP and other efficiencies like part-time or EBA changes (I'm paraphrasing); but you've jumped straight to concessions and LWOP. It doesn't work that way. If this goes down the path that TLS is advocating (while admitting that they'd never even thought of it until a handful of SOs emailed them offering to go on LWOP so others ahead of them would be made redundant) then we might as well just rip the relevant pages out of the EBA. Redundancies are complex by design - you/we need to keep it that way. If you make it simple then you're not doing yourself a favour - but your manager will be very, very happy.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 11:22
  #923 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 575
You boys be careful, LWOP with no end date is just redundancy without a need to pay you.

An EBA is not worth much in these unprecedented times.

Last edited by Xeptu; 17th Jul 2020 at 11:26. Reason: Extended
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 11:30
  #924 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by Blueskymine View Post
Someone needs to give you a cuddle Telfar. I mean seriously. Thatís some of the most epic doomsday, empty glass, pessimistic, negative nelly tripe Iíve ever read.
If youíre actually a pilot I reckon you should get onto pan and talk it over before you convince yourself that youíre actually right!
If QF have to CR back to 2000 thatíll be all of the short haul FOS and most of the SOs gone.

You mean like Air NZ just did?
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 11:42
  #925 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 382
Originally Posted by Fujiroll76 View Post
Imagine being on a flight deck with Normanton and Telfer...wowee absolute flogs.

Lets hope there are two CR's made...how these twits get through has me stumped!!
pretty harsh wishing CR on someone, no matter what your disagreements are
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 11:54
  #926 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 441
Originally Posted by ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE View Post
pretty harsh wishing CR on someone, no matter what your disagreements are
Yep, I donít want any one to receive a CR. What a sh!t feeling thatíd be...
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 12:02
  #927 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 37
Posts: 483
Originally Posted by mmmbop View Post
QANTAS RECRUITMENT THREAD.
19th October, 2016, 17:06



I wondered why you had become so outspoken normanton. 47 posts until February this year. 389 since then covering the LH vote and now this. You're not in it for the good of the pilot body, you're in it for yourself.

There will be some very junior people on here (like yourself) who in these horrible times will unfortunately believe what you write, thinking you are something that you're not, and are looking out for them.

Post the all-knowing knowledge that you think you possess about the Award and it's legal aspects on Qrewroom. I note you haven't. So not only are you selfish, you're gutless.
How the **** is me discussing a recruitment timeline selfish?

Desperate for anything to try and use against me because you can't argue valid points.

Disgraceful.

Originally Posted by ConfigFull View Post
Well said mmmbop. I've received a few texts today with photos of their posts and a few choice words attached. I can't imagine being brand, brand new and posting such arrogant stuff when you've been around for a second. Had a go at me regarding credibility but it's on show in spades here.
Or maybe for once in your career someone junior to you has thrown you a hard dose of reality and you can't take it. Seniority seniority seniority. Yet as soon as the company challengers that in compliance with the EBA you shit your pants.

Originally Posted by Keg View Post
No. It’s not that simple. If at step 4, the more senior pilot says ‘instead of making me redundant (circa $60-70K) how about giving me LWOP and I’ll come back when you tell me you want me’. Company says ‘yeah, righto’. The end. Company saves it’s cash both ways (saving both CR and paying accrued annual leave) and the junior pilot on LWOP comes back flying the exact same time they would have if they’d taken the CR package.... except they haven’t accrued anything in the interim!
Keg, I disagree because as mentioned many times by Tino, LWOP numbers will have no affect on the VR/CR numbers (190) required.

Last edited by normanton; 17th Jul 2020 at 12:16.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 12:14
  #928 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 15
Itís pretty sad to see how quickly pilots turn on each other.

How about everyone has a cup of tea, takes a bex and has a lie down..
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 12:20
  #929 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 575
We are talking about a company that is facing a 50% reduction in size in a market that is not expected to be profitable for at least the next two years. Have I got that right and what are we to do with the excess staff.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 12:29
  #930 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 441
Originally Posted by normanton View Post
Keg, I disagree because as mentioned many times by Tino, LWOP numbers will have no affect on the VR/CR numbers (190) required.
Why the rush to get LWOP locked away on 07 Aug, before the VR and ER results are known?

Something isnít right.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 12:44
  #931 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: sincity
Posts: 1,078
Originally Posted by ruprecht View Post
Why the rush to get LWOP locked away on 07 Aug, before the VR and ER results are known?

Something isnít right.
absolutely
its a con job
normanton has bought into the amway and selling furiously to not be alone
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 12:47
  #932 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1
Seniority seniority seniority. Yet as soon as the company challengers that in compliance with the EBA you shit your pants.
Does that happen after you've p*ssed yourself out of fear by signing away the next 1/2/3+ years? All decided before the JobKeeper review, before the VR close, before any subsequent CR target, before early retirement, before short-term EBA changes? Read your own contract!

I have no idea what you're trying to say with "...as soon as the company challengers (sic) that in compliance with the EBA...". How do you challenge something that already complies?





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Old 17th Jul 2020, 12:47
  #933 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Darwin
Posts: 11
The company has said again and again that they donít to do CR and I actually believe them. Wana know why? Because itís expensive. Not only do they have to cough up the CR payment, they have to pay out your leave balances and give you the required notice period all of which burns cash which they are doing everything they can to avoid. Itís why theyíre pushing the LWOP card so hard, because it costs nothing.

Im in the bottom 200 numbers so I am firmly in the danger zone. If it comes to it, Iíll go on LWOP as well to avoid redundancy but Iíll be damned if I offer it up to them before they release the VR numbers. There are 2 main reasons for this...

Any future job keeper scheme may exclude people on LWOP. I desperately need that money if I can get it. Interestingly, someone on the webinar actually said they have spoken to the ATO twice and they told him that anyone on LWOP should not be currently getting jobkeeper. Even if thatís not the case, the government has consistently said they are planning on tightening the future eligibility of jobkeeper, so watch this space.

Second, at the end of the SO webinar, Doug Alley even conceded that they would probably have to revisit LWOP after the 7th of August deadline in the event that they were forced to run a CR program. And why wouldnít they? Like I said, CR is expensive LWOP isnít. If it comes to it, surely they will continue to work their way up the list offering LWOP as required knowing people will likely take it over redundancy, hence saving the company money.

The company are not trying to arbitrarily axe X number of pilots. They are trying to manage a pilot surplus through the CHEAPEST means possible. The company have said it many times that LWOP is the cheapest and most preferred option (VR/early Retirement Packages for older pilots are a different proposition for a variety of reason I wonít bother listing). If you think that taking LWOP now is some cunning move because the company will definitely CR the bloke above you, then youíre not thinking it through. You might return to work a couple of months earlier than me if I go on LWOP in a few months from now but you might miss out on months of jobkeeper and I might never have to go on LWOP at all.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 12:57
  #934 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1
Well said, Overspeed. Prepare for the incoming from the amateurs...
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 13:50
  #935 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 893
Originally Posted by Slezy9 View Post
You mean like Air NZ just did?
I think Iím going to have to spell this out another time, because I seem to be doing it every couple of posts on this thread:

New Zealand is not Australia
The law in New Zealand is different to Australia, as evidenced by this statement from an IR Law firm below:
Unlike Australia, there are no stand down provisions in New Zealand.
Employment Law Issues with Coronavirus (COVID-19)
Staff in Australia can be stood down, whereas staff in NZ canít.
So whatever is happening in Air New Zealand is irrelevant because itís a different country with different law.

Originally Posted by Keg View Post
They wonít fill the vacated SH F/O role with Ďsomeone elseí. Itíll be left blank and empty. There will be enough pilots left in SH to cover the planned flying for at least the next 12 months. Perhaps as much as 18 months depending on vaccine production. Certainly long enough to start bringing pilots back on from CR.
SH has always been the most flexible fleet. If the 330 is flying less domestically and trans Tasman that may be cause to stand up more 737 crew. As well as return of demand in the domestic market. Donít forget these forecasts are being done for the next 2-3 years. No one, not even the fortune tellers of PPRuNe, can predict what will happen over the next 2-3 years. On an earlier post I mentioned a 50% capacity return in Europe just weeks after lockdowns were lifted, 80% capacity return in China a few months after lockdowns and a return to full capacity in Japan expected within a few months. Short haul domestic flying is returning fairly rapidly over northern summer, and Iíd expect it to return here as the seasons improve as well. International a different story. I think itís very plausible (and totally legal) for the company to state no SH crew surplus is forecast at all over the next few years, ie no redundancy.

Last edited by dr dre; 17th Jul 2020 at 14:03.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 13:54
  #936 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 724
Can a Jetstar long haul pilot essentially knife someone on a narrow body?

Myself and my colleagues are most certainly expecting our wide body part of our base to get the chop, however all those in the left seat (and some right) on the 787 are all ex Airbus Command anyway and donít want to move cities. They are all ahead of us on the list. Basically they want my job. Some of those people I was informed this week have already been talking of taking my job which upset me this week. Iíve got both sides of the seat on the big twin gunning for my job. Thatís a lot of people.

I am happy to sit out for a year or two. Canít move the family so need to do what I can to maintain my position and fleet. CR would mean I would walk away from the job which would have a bad effect on my mental state considering this is all Iíve done for the last 25 years. Working at Woolworths now really is an eye opener.

Last edited by PoppaJo; 17th Jul 2020 at 14:05.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 20:19
  #937 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 329
Can the moderator repeat Overspeeds post every second day please?
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 21:45
  #938 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: HKG
Posts: 188
Anybody with an AFR subscription happy to decode this please?

https://www.afr.com/companies/transp...0200710-p55att
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 21:48
  #939 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: In a house
Posts: 372
Yes they can, because Jetstar have one EBA covering all their pilots.

from a quick look at the FW website under the JQ EBA 2015

24.2 Application of Seniority

F - retention or demotion in the case of reduction of establishment

Jetstar will do whatís cheapest, which means keeping the longhaul guys stood down for as long as possible.



Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
Can a Jetstar long haul pilot essentially knife someone on a narrow body?

Myself and my colleagues are most certainly expecting our wide body part of our base to get the chop, however all those in the left seat (and some right) on the 787 are all ex Airbus Command anyway and donít want to move cities. They are all ahead of us on the list. Basically they want my job. Some of those people I was informed this week have already been talking of taking my job which upset me this week. Iíve got both sides of the seat on the big twin gunning for my job. Thatís a lot of people.

I am happy to sit out for a year or two. Canít move the family so need to do what I can to maintain my position and fleet. CR would mean I would walk away from the job which would have a bad effect on my mental state considering this is all Iíve done for the last 25 years. Working at Woolworths now really is an eye opener.
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 21:52
  #940 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Denmark
Posts: 373
Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
Can a Jetstar long haul pilot essentially knife someone on a narrow body?

Myself and my colleagues are most certainly expecting our wide body part of our base to get the chop, however all those in the left seat (and some right) on the 787 are all ex Airbus Command anyway and don’t want to move cities. They are all ahead of us on the list. Basically they want my job. Some of those people I was informed this week have already been talking of taking my job which upset me this week. I’ve got both sides of the seat on the big twin gunning for my job. That’s a lot of people.

I am happy to sit out for a year or two. Can’t move the family so need to do what I can to maintain my position and fleet. CR would mean I would walk away from the job which would have a bad effect on my mental state considering this is all I’ve done for the last 25 years. Working at Woolworths now really is an eye opener.
JQ787 Pilot can not displace a JQ320 Pilot, so don’t worry to much mate. The EBA is misinterpreted by some older guys with this, they seem to skim over 24.2.1 for you, read that paragraph very slowly especially 2nd last line “Seniority will be a major consideration” that is not iron clad the company don’t have to use seniority in this case. So reality is JQ will not down train wide body guys in this environment simply can’t afford to. As for 320 crew the company has been quiet with what requirements in terms of numbers they need moving forward, again that same paragraph applies so if you’re in ML, BN, SY and maybe ADL you could be fine. Judging by your post you’re in CN or OOL I’m guessing.
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