Project Sunrise
I have been looking at the company offer.
There is no movement allowed between the 787 and A350 or from the A350 to the 787 as they are now the same category.
No golden or back bid allowed as they are the same category. You can only bid back. You cannot bid sideways.
So if you bid to 787 or A350 you need to choose wisely as your stuck.
Also If your RIN from 787 to A350 you're stuck.
The 23.5 hours on all fleets a cracker too.
There is no movement allowed between the 787 and A350 or from the A350 to the 787 as they are now the same category.
No golden or back bid allowed as they are the same category. You can only bid back. You cannot bid sideways.
So if you bid to 787 or A350 you need to choose wisely as your stuck.
Also If your RIN from 787 to A350 you're stuck.
The 23.5 hours on all fleets a cracker too.
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I have been looking at the company offer.
There is no movement allowed between the 787 and A350 or from the A350 to the 787 as they are now the same category.
No golden or back bid allowed as they are the same category. You can only bid back. You cannot bid sideways.
So if you bid to 787 or A350 you need to choose wisely as your stuck.
Also If your RIN from 787 to A350 you're stuck.
The 23.5 hours on all fleets a cracker too.
There is no movement allowed between the 787 and A350 or from the A350 to the 787 as they are now the same category.
No golden or back bid allowed as they are the same category. You can only bid back. You cannot bid sideways.
So if you bid to 787 or A350 you need to choose wisely as your stuck.
Also If your RIN from 787 to A350 you're stuck.
The 23.5 hours on all fleets a cracker too.
23.5hrs is for single sector only.
And people seem to forget, you don’t have to go to 23.5 hours on a current fleet if there is a delay....the FRMS is irrelevant....if you are fatigued (or project you will be...read the doc carefully...) then get off. Doesn’t matter if it’s 10hrs or 15 or whatever. Your licence, your call.
I think you will find 23.5 is a single planned sector, if you divert you can be extended to 23.5 hours.
And people seem to forget, you don’t have to go to 23.5 hours on a current fleet if there is a delay....the FRMS is irrelevant....if you are fatigued (or project you will be...read the doc carefully...) then get off. Doesn’t matter if it’s 10hrs or 15 or whatever. Your licence, your call.
On the odd occasion I’ve met those that can’t sleep on the aircraft. I would imagine this would pose a problem for more than just the individual. That pilot will have to be transferred to a more suitable fleet. So choose wisely, but it won’t be as iron clad if a genuine reason arises.
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The inability to bid between SFF and the 787 also causes an issue for those who don't live in Sydney or Melbourne. If a base is closed, you have no choice but to commute or move.
Slight thread drift. I have heard a whisper the B744 18 day jaunt due to start on 29 April with Greg Fitzgerald, Owen Weaver and Andrew Packwood may not operate. If so; the charter may be postponed to a later date. There is a possibility the charter may even be rescheduled by 12 months to 2021 depending upon a QF decision to retain a B744 longer than planned. The B747 may even see 50 years of service by QF.
Slight thread drift. I have heard a whisper the B744 18 day jaunt due to start on 29 April with Greg Fitzgerald, Owen Weaver and Andrew Packwood may not operate. If so; the charter may be postponed to a later date. There is a possibility the charter may even be rescheduled by 12 months to 2021 depending upon a QF decision to retain a B744 longer than planned. The B747 may even see 50 years of service by QF.
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Is this the beginning of the end for aviation as a desirable profession in this country !
Management have won the battle but will they lose the war due to their cussedness ?
Is Covid19 the black swan event to herald the great world wide economic reset ?
If it is this is going to get real nasty for a very long time .
A secular bear market for a decade or more is what I’m reading !
There will be a lot of people hurting as a result !
Keep safe and look out for your fellow colleagues in these worrying times .
Management have won the battle but will they lose the war due to their cussedness ?
Is Covid19 the black swan event to herald the great world wide economic reset ?
If it is this is going to get real nasty for a very long time .
A secular bear market for a decade or more is what I’m reading !
There will be a lot of people hurting as a result !
Keep safe and look out for your fellow colleagues in these worrying times .
That could happen now if your base is closed and there’s no other position at the time to go to.
I suspect that this entire negotiation has been overtaken by events. it’s now irrelevant to pilots and management. The way Coronavirus is hitting economies, international tourism is dead for at least two to three years and the A380 is now scrap metal. I fail to understand how QF is going to afford new aircraft either.
Offshore maintenance is also going to look like the stupid idea it always was.
Offshore maintenance is also going to look like the stupid idea it always was.
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The new SO pay is a reduction of up to 50-60% compared to current SOs while the cost of achieving the min requirements are still very high. Also, many of the 500 new recruits since 2016 came from established decent paying jobs. I think many would not have joined Qf under the proposed new SO pay agreement. Last week’s argument was, “yes the new SO pay is low, but the promotion will be fast!”. This week I don’t think that argument stacks up. Things have slowed down as they do quite often in aviation and those stuck as SOs will suffer financially.
On the other hand, if the boom in aviation does return, the new SO pay could still come back to bight Qf on rear end. Qf never really felt the pilot shortage Pre COVID-19. Post COVID-19, if the boom does return, Qf will in time feel the effects of the pilot shortage. The new SO pay could exacerbate the shortage as it greatly reduces to appeal of a Qf job.
So, despite the fact that we really have no choice but to vote yes, I agree that the allure of the profession has taken a huge hit and for Qf the new agreement adds to this. Qf will probably end up regretting this proposed new SO pay in both a slow market and a booming market. In the US, the airlines were forced to throw mountains of cash at pilots when they finally felt the pinch of the pilot shortage.
I have empathy for differing views on YES/No. anyone pushing PIA in this environment is a complete moron.
PS agree with your comments re RIN, redundancy outside seniority. Going to be very messy.
PS agree with your comments re RIN, redundancy outside seniority. Going to be very messy.
Last edited by cloudsurfng; 15th Mar 2020 at 23:05.
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How about some leadership from management if they want to get through this crisis.
They could start by removing the gun they have placed at every long haul pilots head with 5-10++ years left and withdraw the threat of outsourcing 350 flying at the conclusion of this eba vote. Even better suspend the vote and all negotiations until the flying schedule is up and running normally again with a view to coming to negotiate properly without the adversarial threats we have seen this time round.
A little goodwill there might see a lot returned with pilots happy to take leave at half pay/lwop etc. so that the company can emerge out of this in a stronger position. But that goodwill MUST be reciprocated.
Keep safe out there folks.
They could start by removing the gun they have placed at every long haul pilots head with 5-10++ years left and withdraw the threat of outsourcing 350 flying at the conclusion of this eba vote. Even better suspend the vote and all negotiations until the flying schedule is up and running normally again with a view to coming to negotiate properly without the adversarial threats we have seen this time round.
A little goodwill there might see a lot returned with pilots happy to take leave at half pay/lwop etc. so that the company can emerge out of this in a stronger position. But that goodwill MUST be reciprocated.
Keep safe out there folks.
The share price has fallen off a cliff. I too, suspect 350 debate is a moot point right now, but this isn’t about a new aircraft, it’s about a new contract. And that’s the real danger.
Rumour of imminent shutdown too...
Rumour of imminent shutdown too...
People still talking about PIA! Really! We will be lucky to be flying anything anywhere soon. The situation has now changed drastically and dramatically. Stay safe and look after your mates.
wrt redundancy...3 months notice required Mainline with min 26 weeks pay. (So 6 months)
What notice required in the various subcontractor entities especially Jetconnect?
Jetstar fleet has a high percentage of leased aircraft.
how many buybacks have there been? Did someone say capital raising?
this is serious times...I’m not sure pilot redundancies solves the immediate problem. Fortunately superior engagement will see people jumping out of their skins to help.
What notice required in the various subcontractor entities especially Jetconnect?
Jetstar fleet has a high percentage of leased aircraft.
how many buybacks have there been? Did someone say capital raising?
this is serious times...I’m not sure pilot redundancies solves the immediate problem. Fortunately superior engagement will see people jumping out of their skins to help.