Project Sunrise
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
About time there is some constructive messages.
Dragon man - You are correct. We won’t get night credits and the legacy over time back. This went in EBA9 and will be redundant from the agreement when the legacy aircraft disappear.
Like any negotiation you never get everything you want. But locking in the a350 to the long haul agreement gives us all longevity in our work place. Hopefully the union and company gained some ground today.
Stick it to the company attitude, or bite the hand that feeds you only ends in tears... Poor tiger 320 drivers could attest to this.
Dragon man - You are correct. We won’t get night credits and the legacy over time back. This went in EBA9 and will be redundant from the agreement when the legacy aircraft disappear.
Like any negotiation you never get everything you want. But locking in the a350 to the long haul agreement gives us all longevity in our work place. Hopefully the union and company gained some ground today.
Stick it to the company attitude, or bite the hand that feeds you only ends in tears... Poor tiger 320 drivers could attest to this.
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Sydney
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are clearly spooked by the company’s threats. So how do you think things would play out at the following EA negotiations when they say;
“Ok, we ordered 12 A350’s under the Sunrise business case. Now we want 30 more to replace the A330’s and you need to give up X, Y and Z to make the business case or we will get external pilots to fly them.”
I don’t know what is in it however I am informed that Qantas have taken what AIPA offered and substantially changed it obviously for their benefit.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 48
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes
on
10 Posts
Hi Secret,
There’s still a transfer of business clause so it just depends on the total number on Mainline crew at the time. They can’t just transfer a chunk of flying out and make mainline crew redundant, that’s what the transfer of business is all about.
There’s still a transfer of business clause so it just depends on the total number on Mainline crew at the time. They can’t just transfer a chunk of flying out and make mainline crew redundant, that’s what the transfer of business is all about.
Remember, it would cost them massive amounts of money to do what they threaten, even if it was legal.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 41
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the company chooses to do this then IMO the ACTU will get involved, it will go to FWA then the loser will take it to the Full Bench for an appeal then to the high court if they will hear it. This is not as simple as Qantas make it out to be IMO.
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=ScepticalOptomist;10697002]Don’t be so scared of some tough bargaining. Your willingness to roll over and take it up the clacker at the first threat is a little worrying.
Remember, it would cost them massive amounts of money to do what they threaten, even if it was legal.[/QUOTE
The willingness of many to risk losing the flying and allow the company to start up a separate entity (and therefore stop any future progression mainline) all for the sake of ego and entitlement is more worrying to me
Remember, it would cost them massive amounts of money to do what they threaten, even if it was legal.[/QUOTE
The willingness of many to risk losing the flying and allow the company to start up a separate entity (and therefore stop any future progression mainline) all for the sake of ego and entitlement is more worrying to me
Ego and entitlement you are kidding. It’s because we have been here for long enough to know what you need to balance long haul flying fatigue with family life. FFS if we are going to debate this let’s at least be sensible. Ego and entitlement FFS.
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Okinawa
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Qantas Management have a long history of unethical behaviour, and I think we are being lied to again.
If they can easily or profitably set up a greenfields operation then why wouldn’t they just go ahead and do it? Backslaps and bonuses all around!
However, if anyone is spooked by this latest threat, do NOT sign unless there is an ironclad statement ensuring the flying...good luck with that.
If they can easily or profitably set up a greenfields operation then why wouldn’t they just go ahead and do it? Backslaps and bonuses all around!
However, if anyone is spooked by this latest threat, do NOT sign unless there is an ironclad statement ensuring the flying...good luck with that.
Has QF ever said categorically that they won’t offshore the flying of you vote yes? Seems some here are blindly assuming that a yes vote will keep the flying in house.
I'd guess they (and any other airline) will offshore when it makes economic sense - the business changes constantly and, as an earlier poster said, legacy conditions are on the way out - and I'd add "worldwide".
I’ll be voting yes to any offer whether it be a negotiated deal or a company only deal to secure the flying and secure a future for myself and my family. It’s just not worth the gamble. Legacy conditions are on the way out and I am completely comfortable with that.
Either way it’s a pretty sad attitude.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 41
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That’s quite funny because I’m not in the LHS. I’m an F/O, I spent almost the entire “lost decade” stuck as a second officer and it took me 16 years to finally get a LH RHS (yet not even in my home base). So those pilots DO agree with me, I am one of them and my similar vintage colleagues agree.
YOU of all people will benefit the most out of a Sunrise deal. Your LHS will come so much quicker.
The new SO's will be hired into mainline or a new entity. PICK ONE!
I hear what you're saying in the rest of your post, but I want to pick up on this point - if we vote yes, and get the A350 onto the EA for LH and ULH operations, could they threaten to outsource A350 flying in the future? Would that pass the 'new flying' test? If so, then bugger.
The Integration Award would not apply in that case either as the A330 is not an ‘existing aircraft type’ as defined in chapter 15.
So yes, they can roll out this threat every 4 years. And if we capitulate and start giving away the silver this time then you can be 100% certain they’ll try it out on next time.
Beer Baron selfish, you kidding me, he’s a realist who knows what’s best in this case. As he said if you want quick promotion and lousy conditions why don’t you try the Middle East carriers.
If you think 16 years to go from SO to FO is something to be proud of, I am so sorry for you. Just because it happened to you, doesn't mean it needs to happen to the next generation of pilots. Your attitude here is absolute selfish.
YOU of all people will benefit the most out of a Sunrise deal. Your LHS will come so much quicker.
The new SO's will be hired into mainline or a new entity. PICK ONE!
YOU of all people will benefit the most out of a Sunrise deal. Your LHS will come so much quicker.
The new SO's will be hired into mainline or a new entity. PICK ONE!
The rest of your post is nonsensical rubbish.
You say that I am “absolute selfish” and then go on to state that, “YOU of all people will benefit the most out of a Sunrise deal.” Yet I’m the one advocating to vote NO!
If I was selfish and stood to gain so much then surely I’d vote YES!?!
I want new S/O hired into mainline on mainline conditions not some ****ty new deal that isn’t good enough for me but is fine for someone else. If I’m as selfish as you attest then shouldn’t I be quite happy to vote yes to significant pay cuts for future S/O’s?
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 41
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also I disagree with your statement about your vintage colleagues. After flying with some who have been directly affected from the lost decade, there opinion is the complete reverse of yours. They were of the opinion they never want to see it happen again, and I agree.
Last edited by normanton; 27th Feb 2020 at 09:15.
Normanton - you’re obviously passionate which is great. Keep that fire burning.
The vote is yours to do as you think is best.
Unfortunately you also seem scared by the threat, and are playing into the IR tactics game. Experience will help overcome this fear, in your own time.
Talk to your colleagues on the flight deck that have been around a while and listen to their logic in why the fear is just a tactic.
Safe flying.
The vote is yours to do as you think is best.
Unfortunately you also seem scared by the threat, and are playing into the IR tactics game. Experience will help overcome this fear, in your own time.
Talk to your colleagues on the flight deck that have been around a while and listen to their logic in why the fear is just a tactic.
Safe flying.