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Old 13th Feb 2020, 10:48
  #1061 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Living with consequences
Posts: 22
Tonne for Tino anyone?
.... I’ll be going sick weekly now bring it!
Snag everything....
Please don’t Ladies & Gents.

Remember what happened last time when it was red ties and PA’s? These were apparently well considered strategies and look what happened. Don’t give them an/any excuse to do this or something similar again.
This latest missive is just part of the FUD offensive. Certainly stand your (industrial) ground but just keep doing your normal, professional, disciplined job and let them deal with their self induced helmet fire.


Emmit Stussy is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 10:49
  #1062 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
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Posts: 166
Very good advice
KZ Kiwi is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 11:11
  #1063 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bexley
Posts: 1,789
Snag everything....
Please don’t Ladies & Gents.
Very good advice

I'm not sure that ignoring defects is such good advice. It's not even legal.
ALAEA Fed Sec is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 11:25
  #1064 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: australia
Age: 71
Posts: 903
So thatís why the Jet Connect stalking horse was created and carried for so long !
The new employment entity ?
blow.n.gasket is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 11:46
  #1065 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 140
Why not honour the Aussie greats like The Don, Tubby, Hayden, Simpson and Clarke and make it a Triple Tonne for Tino?

but seriously, advocating NOT writing up defects??
TimmyTee is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 11:59
  #1066 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S33E151
Posts: 975
Safety being Ďourí number one concern is clearly a vitally important Company wide goal. Might I humbly suggest that Cabin Crew be encouraged to be more closely involved in safety issues that may otherwise have escaped Pilotsí attentions? Especially during high workload environments like prior to departure, itís very easy to overlook things that otherwise would be considered quite serious.

Cabin Crew are generally a very reliable set of (up to 36?) eyes and would no doubt be only too keen to assist the Company maintain the justifiably enviable safety record it has. After all, everyoneís job depends on safety.
V-Jet is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 12:07
  #1067 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Living with consequences
Posts: 22
Ok ok, before it gets out of hand.
Look, I have written up everything from a request to clean the windscreens to more serious defects and will continue to do so. My fault for misinterpreting the tone of ALAEA Fed Sec’s post as mischievous, sorry Steve.
What I was trying to say, was don’t do anything that could be construed as unsanctioned, unauthorised, unprotected industrial action.
Emmit Stussy is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 12:25
  #1068 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S33E151
Posts: 975
What exactly is a Ďnecessary return for shareholdersí?

US 10 year t-bills are at 1.59, 30 year 2.05.

You've got to price in Elaineís demonstrably proven incompetence so thatís going to Jack the rate up, but surely thatís his fault!

V-Jet is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 12:57
  #1069 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bexley
Posts: 1,789
/
Look, I have written up everything from a request to clean the windscreens to more serious defects and will continue to do so. My fault for misinterpreting the tone of ALAEA Fed Sec’s post as mischievous, sorry Steve.
All good and I understand your point. We need not take PIA like 2011. The PIA then led to determined outcomes by the FWC. I know LAMEs did very well out of that. I suspect you guys/gals did ok as well, certainly you didn't have to give up anything to get a pay rise. Not like this time where it appears they want you to sell the unborn. You only need to chat to your wives/husbands (I assume you are all married to Flight Attendants) to find out how 2 pay scales has created division in their ranks.

The LAMEs EA expired in Jan 2019. They have offered us nothing. We haven't taken PIA. We don't need to. Qantas has been gutted entirely by the decision makers. No parts. Not enough Engineers. Flights always departing short crewed. Horrible food. Cabins falling apart. I am part of a Frequent Flyer forum and they are always posting about 2-3 hour wait times on the phone to enquire about things. This airline has been destroyed.

The worst of it is not replacing aircraft. The CEO has not ordered one new aircraft type since he started. I don't think he intends to order new planes any time soon. Aircraft are 1/3 of a normal airlines expense. That cost has been removed and as a result, Qantas are always crowing about their excellent financial performance. We all know that Mickey Mouse could run a profitable airline if no new planes are ordered or paid for. In 2008 the average Qantas aircraft age was around 7.5 years. Now it is 12.2. It is being set up to fail.

This EA threat is very poor form but not unexpected. So they need to order planes by end of March.....that doesn't mean they need a new EA by end of March. They could continue to negotiate in good faith past March and settle when negotiations have matured. If that is towards the end of this year, that leaves ample time before this new fantasy plane is meant to arrive. If they can't settle, they can open their new company in a few years time. They shouldn't threaten you like this and certainly don't need to rush an answer to your EA.

Now back to the LAMEs and defects. With every department so short staffed, they are expecting us all to take short cuts to make a broken system work. They want to create new "norms" that will lead to reduced safety. Engineering managers (many with no Engineering knowledge) are telling LAMEs not to look so thoroughly at aircraft because it may impact schedule. We know this pressure is also being applied to you without your knowledge. It may be through EA clauses that leave you stranded without pay if you ground an aircraft or having to do extra onerous paperwork to write something up. I know this is real and happening. We did a study of 800 flights out of Perth to unmanned ports and 800 flights back to Perth. 91% of all defects were reported on the return Perth sector. They have created a system where safety comes second.

As professionals we must ignore the external factors and conduct good airmanship at all times. This means reporting all defects regardless of their nature. If we collectively reject the concept of profit before safety and show that the airline is not being run properly, we may achieve the change that is needed to get the airline back to where it once was.

Last edited by ALAEA Fed Sec; 13th Feb 2020 at 13:28.
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Old 13th Feb 2020, 23:16
  #1070 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Around
Posts: 49
I work for JQ and Iím sorry to see youíre up against the same IR brick wall we are at the moment. Stay strong and united, and send the biggest middle finger NO vote you can. How they think this can be legal (let alone moral) is beyond me. The public have limited appetite for this sort of corporate greed at the moment - donít let the $24 million man give you the pineapple...
Cessna Jockey is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 23:20
  #1071 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Somewhere on the Australian Coast
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So they need to order planes by end of March.....that doesn't mean they need a new EA by end of March. They could continue to negotiate in good faith past March and settle when negotiations have matured. ​​​​​​
One thing that occurred to me yesterday, and appears to have occurred to others, is that the aeroplanes are definitely coming.

In one breath Tino says we need the right agreement before we order aeroplanes by the deadline of 31 March. In the next he says, we want an agreement with the pilots or we'll set up a crewing company to do the job. Either way they seem to think they'll meet the hurdle of pilot costs. The aeroplanes are coming.

This is all about locking in the EA and, more importantly, neutering AIPA in ANY future negotiations for anything. If pilots show they are willing to negotiate with the company while a gun is being held to their individual heads, that's the end of a representative organisation for collective bargaining.

The greatest threat here is to AIPA and the fundamental concept of organised, united labour and collective bargaining which underpins Australian IR. This is a battle for the heart and soul of organised labour negotiations in this country. The ACTU should be all over this as, if it succeeds, you can can guarantee employers will be.
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Old 13th Feb 2020, 23:33
  #1072 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of Oz
Posts: 186
i absolutely agree, AIPA is the threat here!

Everyone in Qantas have to look back at their lives at their Royal Aero Club days. You would have killed to go fly a jet. No itís not shinny jet syndrome, itís a company willing to pay upwards of $400,000 to a capt, $300,000 for an FO and we think weíre worth more? How?

I believe every pilot should do a rotation through a company like Emirates, Jetstar, Easternís mid way through their career so when they come back to Qantas, they dont whinge bitch and carry on about the greatest terms and conditions available.

People donít quit Cathay, donít retire from China to come work for Qantas and live in Australia for a joke. We live in the greatest country in the world and we get paid absolutely above average pay. For a job that quite frankly isnít that damn hard.

if Qantas pilots vote this down, then how stupid are they. Youíre voting for your future. Theyíve told you this is it. And if you donít want to fly the A350. Donít.

if you donít want to be an SO. Donít.

if you donít want to fly long haul donít.

itís not rocket science people!
ROH111 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 23:43
  #1073 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 166
It would be foolish for Qantas pilots to vote this down. It will be flown under the TandCs that QF have proposed regardless of the vote. Surely you want to lock those conditions in to a EBA that is accessible for all Qantas pilots? Rather than the plan B which is having to work for a separate crewing company.

Qantas will get A350s on their AOC.

The aircraft are coming, the sims will be at mascot, DT (or his successor) will be CP and the training and A330/A350 fleet managers will all be working at Mascot.....just like the current 737 arrangement with jetconnect.

Jetconnect pilots are mainline pilots. The only difference is the pay difference every fortnight. This will be the same. And it's not rocket science to see that if it's voted down any future aircraft will never be on the EBA.

It would be crazy to not vote this up and get the aircraft locked in for the QF pilots.


KZ Kiwi is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2020, 23:43
  #1074 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by ROH111 View Post
i absolutely agree, AIPA is the threat here!
Are you agreeing with DirectAnywhere's comment?
thec172man is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2020, 00:07
  #1075 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: australia
Age: 71
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Lots of Angel bull dust being sprinkled !
blow.n.gasket is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2020, 00:53
  #1076 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lower North Shore
Posts: 164
I assume using a contract company would lose the efficiencies of mixed fleet 330/350 flying. Surely this is worth something in negotiations?
Brakerider is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2020, 02:03
  #1077 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
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via Imgflip Meme Generator
Johhny Utah is online now  
Old 14th Feb 2020, 02:29
  #1078 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of Oz
Posts: 186
Go back through my history, youíll find Iíve been around a lot longer than any angel you speak about.

As a QF pilot with a career in front of me, if any QF pilot votes this down, they are fools. Anyone who has worked outside of QF during the LWOP period recently will totally understand how good QF is, how good this deal is!

we vote no, what are we going to have.

747ís
A380ís.
A330ís.
787ís.

3/4 wonít be there in 8-10 years time.

then weíre left with a dozen or so 787ís.

400k plus for a captain
300k plus for an fo.

show that to your mates who donít work in aviation, and if you donít have mates outside of work, I suggest you get some and gain some life perspective.
ROH111 is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2020, 02:46
  #1079 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S33E151
Posts: 975

It would be foolish for Qantas pilots to vote this down. It will be flown under the TandCs that QF have proposed regardless of the vote. Surely you want to lock those conditions in to a EBA that is accessible for all Qantas pilots? Rather than the plan B which is having to work for a separate crewing company.
Did that for the 787. Doesnít seem to have worked out that well so far...

In those lovely words at the beginning of the movie ĎBattle of Britainí: ĎWeíve learnt that Herr Hitlerís guarantees, guarantee NOTHINGí
V-Jet is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2020, 03:11
  #1080 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 810
Originally Posted by V-Jet View Post
Did that for the 787. Doesn’t seem to have worked out that well so far...
I have yet to meet a single Qantas 787 pilot who doesn't like the package.
*Lancer* is offline  

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