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Old 19th Jan 2024, 19:18
  #2061 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno
What about over the Pole?
Which one ?
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Old 19th Jan 2024, 19:20
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Thanks everyone for their insights, well looks like another multi stop round the World it will be then....Might be via South America and South Africa this time ...
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Old 19th Jan 2024, 19:36
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Originally Posted by morno
What about over the Pole? Would that be viable/within range?
the same rather unfriendly country is in the way there too. If you go around its eastern side it’s 15% longer than direct.
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Old 19th Jan 2024, 21:00
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The track flies straight over a nation that is currently politically unviable for any Australian airline to fly over, lest alone they need to make an emergency landing in that nation.
The West Australians aren't that bad, surely?
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Old 19th Jan 2024, 21:32
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Originally Posted by dr dre
The standard A350-1000 range without the extra fuel tank would be just enough to do SYD-JFK, and maybe MEL too but with potentially a few less pax. There’s also the 350-900ULR that’s already in service with SQ and has the extra range of the -1000ULR, but sacrifices some passenger capacity. So there’s options on the routes to NYC.

The real issue I think is to LHR. The track flies straight over a nation that is currently politically unviable for any Australian airline to fly over, lest alone they need to make an emergency landing in that nation. Flying a track away that doesn’t go over that country would be too much of a stretch, even for the -1000ULR.

As it looks like the pariah status of that nation won’t be changing for the foreseeable future I doubt that’ll become an option before the flights were due to start.
Very astute observation. And the region you mention is like a Tetris game if which countries can't be overflown. I'm sure that on a great circle within the route structure is viable but that route structure is a firm as warm custard.
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Old 19th Jan 2024, 23:21
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Originally Posted by Kiltrash
Thanks everyone for their insights, well looks like another multi stop round the World it will be then....Might be via South America and South Africa this time ...
Oh, the humanity
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Old 20th Jan 2024, 03:14
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Our broker here in Dubai recommends via SA as you can join the A380 1st class for the final leg.
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Old 20th Jan 2024, 05:00
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If it was Joyce’s baby it will be an unmitigated disaster.
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Old 20th Jan 2024, 06:55
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Originally Posted by dr dre
The standard A350-1000 range without the extra fuel tank would be just enough to do SYD-JFK, and maybe MEL too but with potentially a few less pax. There’s also the 350-900ULR that’s already in service with SQ and has the extra range of the -1000ULR, but sacrifices some passenger capacity. So there’s options on the routes to NYC.

The real issue I think is to LHR. The track flies straight over a nation that is currently politically unviable for any Australian airline to fly over, lest alone they need to make an emergency landing in that nation. Flying a track away that doesn’t go over that country would be too much of a stretch, even for the -1000ULR.

As it looks like the pariah status of that nation won’t be changing for the foreseeable future I doubt that’ll become an option before the flights were due to start.
You know you can just say Russia. I don’t think you have to be all secretive
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Old 20th Jan 2024, 09:38
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Originally Posted by Fridayflyer
You know you can just say Russia. I don’t think you have to be all secretive
I thought he was talking about Iraq or Afghanistan ?
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Old 20th Jan 2024, 10:31
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Originally Posted by Hollywood1

I thought he was talking about Iraq or Afghanistan ?
The great circle route from Sydney to London goes vey near to HongKong, through China and then Russia and the Baltic Sea.

Wasn’t this an old Qantas route from Australia to London via HongKong?
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Old 20th Jan 2024, 11:29
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A map from the Great Circle Mapper - Great Circle Mapper

The GC routes from SYD and MEL end up a surprising distance apart.

it’s surprising to see the route come down the Baltic to London.
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Old 20th Jan 2024, 12:00
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Originally Posted by Hollywood1
I thought he was talking about Iraq or Afghanistan ?
I thought it was Iran!
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Old 20th Jan 2024, 12:53
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom
The great circle route from Sydney to London goes vey near to HongKong, through China and then Russia and the Baltic Sea.

Wasn’t this an old Qantas route from Australia to London via HongKong?
Pretty much. Flights on L888 used to go over the Tibetan Plateau, but someone put the kybosh on that (not sure whether it was Chinese authorities or Flight Ops suddenly got antsy about the LSALTs.)

After that flights used to follow the route from Chengdu to Lanzhou then a hard left turn to Urumqi and into Kazakhstan before entering Russian airspace. That’s clearly not going to happen for some time.
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Old 21st Jan 2024, 00:21
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If Sunrise falls over due range issues with the extra fuel tank or war zones, getting to LHR via HKG and or BKK as well as the current SIN stop would be nice. (Like Qantas used to before AJ gave much of it to Emirates.)
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Old 21st Jan 2024, 02:41
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‘Sunrise’ isnt falling over if Sydney- London becomes too difficult.

Is sounds like the first two routes are LAX and JFK at this stage, with SYD-LHR not on the cards until well into the second or even third year. PER- LHR after that. Obviously that could happen first if Direct from Sydney is unviable at the earlier point. Then it sounds like other routes to the Americas such as Dallas and Chicago are being considered. No other East coast to London (at the early stages anyway).

The first aircraft isn’t due until mid 2026. So it won’t be until towards 2028 that Syd-LHR direct would be happening. A lot of water under the bridge between now and then in any case.

There’s plenty else the 12 ULR configured aircraft can do instead.
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Old 21st Jan 2024, 03:37
  #2077 (permalink)  
 
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Any ideas where they want to be basing crew for 350? I just assumed MEL/SYD but are they looking at replacing the 787 for the PER-LHR?
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Old 21st Jan 2024, 03:44
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Originally Posted by meatbomb01
Any ideas where they want to be basing crew for 350? I just assumed MEL/SYD but are they looking at replacing the 787 for the PER-LHR?
Murmurs allegedly from various sources (pretty reliable ones if true), saying the plan for the 350 is to be a Sydney pilots base only, at least at the initial point.

If the intention is for the initial routes over the first 6/ 7/8 odd aircraft is to be Sydney to Lax, JfK then Heathrow then that would make sense.
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Old 21st Jan 2024, 04:47
  #2079 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ampclamp
If Sunrise falls over due range issues with the extra fuel tank or war zones, getting to LHR via HKG and or BKK as well as the current SIN stop would be nice. (Like Qantas used to before AJ gave much of it to Emirates.)
Problem Being ,many of those pax have since realised the Emirates product in economy and Business (not the 777) is far superior to QF in every way. So can't imagine them coming back. Even if the 350 is nice (it looks good) it doesn't help if you get treated like **** by everyone from the moment you arrive at the airport. Not having to go to Dubai is probably their only advantage.
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Old 21st Jan 2024, 06:10
  #2080 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ExtraShot
Murmurs allegedly from various sources (pretty reliable ones if true), saying the plan for the 350 is to be a Sydney pilots base only, at least at the initial point.

If the intention is for the initial routes over the first 6/ 7/8 odd aircraft is to be Sydney to Lax, JfK then Heathrow then that would make sense.
The 12 Sunrise 350s will mostly be flying out of Sydney but the additional 350s to start replacing the 330s will arrive just a year later. So then it’ll be probable most current 330 flying and bases will be transitioned to 330/350, but there’s also the capability to have 350 only pilots.

Originally Posted by ExtraShot

The first aircraft isn’t due until mid 2026. So it won’t be until towards 2028 that Syd-LHR direct would be happening. A lot of water under the bridge between now and then in any case.
​​​​​​​Two LH EBA negotiations for instance
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