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Jetstar EBA 2019

Old 14th Nov 2019, 09:57
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
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Rubbish.

So someone in the negotiating team thought.... ‘I know, we’ll outsmart em, lets do PIA...... check mate Jetstar.’ I can just imagine the backslapping and grandstanding after 50 beers at the BP.

Really? Hats off for strategic thinking boys.

JQ will drag you through the media and internal Comms. Be prepared to experience the ire of the general public and your other work colleagues alike.

Moreover - are you ready for the bigger fight with the mother ship and its leader?

Right now throughout the Qantas Group (and Virgin) non operational staff on significantly less $$ than pilots are being handed letters and told to eff off by the 15th December. Meanwhile, those who are left need to figure out how to get the same work done with less people. Most of these people can only dream of $200k, let alone $300k.

As for wanting more than 3%, are you aware that the rest of the country is getting 2%?????
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 12:57
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Arthur D;

Posts like this do my head in.

In other news, JQ management is running around declaring to every media organization that NB Captains make 305k a year for flying 75 hours a month.

If they offered the pilot body that deal, it'd be signed tomorrow. 305 for 75 hours? Man I'm in.
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 13:07
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Australia
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JQ will drag you through the media and internal Comms. Be prepared to experience the ire of the general public and your other work colleagues


So what? I'm still to hear a convincing argument as to why this should hold JQ pilots back from fighting for their future.

Lets not forget the general publics disgust with todays corporate greed. JQ pilots will be forced to once again go backwards in pay and conditions whilst the corporate execs continue to reap the benefits. Given this, it's not hard to see why JQ pilots are pissed off!
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 19:32
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by 2theline View Post


So what? I'm still to hear a convincing argument as to why this should hold JQ pilots back from fighting for their future.

Lets not forget the general publics disgust with todays corporate greed. JQ pilots will be forced to once again go backwards in pay and conditions whilst the corporate execs continue to reap the benefits. Given this, it's not hard to see why JQ pilots are pissed off!
Nailed it. The more you give them the more they will piss in their own pockets and get larger bonuses. The AFAP and Itís Jetstar members have balls. Wish you all the best.


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Old 14th Nov 2019, 19:44
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 408
Right now throughout the Qantas Group (and Virgin) non operational staff on significantly less $$ than pilots are being handed letters and told to eff off by the 15th December. Meanwhile, those who are left need to figure out how to get the same work done with less people. Most of these people can only dream of $200k, let alone $300k.

As for wanting more than 3%, are you aware that the rest of the country is getting 2%?????
All of that is quite irrelevant. What matters is market forces. So what do RPT jet pilots get paid in Australia, what do they get paid in Asia, what are they paid in the US? Is there a surplus or is there a shortage? Are there barriers to entry so JQ canít easily train someone off the street?

These are the things that influence pilot remuneration, not national average wage growth figures. JQ conditions are behind their Group colleagues and behind their major competitors so clearly there is some catching up to do. JQ is making hundreds of millions in profit so they certainly have the capacity to afford it.

Last edited by Beer Baron; 14th Nov 2019 at 21:14.
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 19:51
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
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Originally Posted by Arthur D View Post
Rubbish.
Right now throughout the Qantas Group (and Virgin) non operational staff on significantly less $$ than pilots are being handed letters and told to eff off by the 15th December. Meanwhile, those who are left need to figure out how to get the same work done with less people. Most of these people can only dream of $200k, let alone $300k.

As for wanting more than 3%, are you aware that the rest of the country is getting 2%?????
Cry me a river - paid leave over Xmas. Whatever their salary, it was bargained for - and remunerated according to their role. If they want to earn what a pilot does? Become a pilot.
My surgeon mate is on $750K - donít begrudge him at all - Iím not a surgeon..

As for the 2% - Qantas Grouo all took some pay freezes previously. Time to pay up while ďthe getting is goodĒ.

Bring on the fight - enough is enough.

Good luck and stay strong.

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Old 14th Nov 2019, 21:18
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Darwin
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So someone in the negotiating team thought.... ‘I know, we’ll outsmart em, lets do PIA...... check mate Jetstar.’ I can just imagine the backslapping and grandstanding after 50 beers at the BP.
That’s a bit flippant don’t you think? I am sure that considerable resources have been used to get to this stage and the pilots and their union have considered all options before getting to this point. Unfortunately this seems to be the only thing that Qantas I.R. understand. It controls the adversarial model.

JQ will drag you through the media and internal Comms. Be prepared to experience the ire of the general public and your other work colleagues alike.
So?
I think you would be surprised if you came out of your cave what the other operational staff think. There is no love for the basket weaving street dwellers out there I can assure you. I gave up caring about what other people think about me a long time ago.

Moreover - are you ready for the bigger fight with the mother ship and its leader?
See you have put a word in there that doesn’t belong. Delete “leader” and insert “narcissistic overpaid self promoting manager” and there you have it.
He is not a leader. Not by a long stretch.
It looks like they are ready for that fight too BTW.

Right now throughout the Qantas Group (and Virgin) non operational staff on significantly less $$ than pilots are being handed letters and told to eff off by the 15th December. Meanwhile, those who are left need to figure out how to get the same work done with less people.
Why has the business allowed itself to get over staffed that it gets to this point?
I certainly do not see any fat in the operational areas, in fact, quite the opposite. Operational areas have been cut over many years and are critically understaffed in a lot of areas.
Sounds like you are referring to the basket weavers again. Well, you have to share the pain if cuts are needed.
Ask the Airport staff how much pain they have suffered. Ask the Engineers and Ramp as well while you are at it.

Most of these people can only dream of $200k, let alone $300k.
Possibly your dumbest statement.
Most of these people do not hold the qualification to earn that sort of money.
I tell you what, there are a lot of people who dream every week of winning 24 million dollars.

As for wanting more than 3%, are you aware that the rest of the country is getting 2%?????
So?
My insurances went up 7%. Should I write and tell them that as my pay only went up 2% that is all they can do? Or freeze their premiums when I took a pay freeze MULTIPLE times.
You get what you bargain for and I wish the JQ pilots all the very best in their endeavours. They deserve it. Unlike the obscene amounts of money being stolen from the business by managers.

Last edited by What The; 15th Nov 2019 at 03:15.
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 21:23
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
Qantas IR is a huge empire. Creating conflict and dissent, pitting people against each other.

They will spare no expense to prove a point industrial. Economics, logic and common sense won't sway them it is ideology.
Bingo! The only weapon QF have is factional infighting between the different parts of the group. The only thing that will sway them from this tactic is direct proof that it doesnít work anymore. In my old company (Cobham) they dusted off the same old negotiation tactics for the last EA negotiations, pilots did exactly what they didnít expect and the agreement took a quantum leap forward. They are so afraid of the pilotsí ability to be cohesive that the new rhetoric is more vicious, less believable and more desperate than ever before. Negotiations donít start till next year.

Donít believe the bull$hit and STICK TOGETHER!!



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Old 14th Nov 2019, 21:36
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
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To be honest I don’t give a s*$t if other people think my earnings are too high. They are welcome to licence up and earn that money too, just as I could go back to uni if I wanted to earn the $1 million plus that my mate earns as a surgeon. Pilot salaries should only be compared to pilot salaries, my point is that Qantas IR wants the IR action as it gives them a chance to try and split the pilot group (further) knowing that a fractured group is easier to control.
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Old 15th Nov 2019, 00:00
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 14
The AFR is publishing that average Jetstar Cpt/FO widebody pay including super is $323, 274/ $234,516 and $304,576/184,260 for A320.

Last edited by non_state_actor; 15th Nov 2019 at 01:02.
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Old 15th Nov 2019, 00:46
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location Location
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Retort of the year What The.
Well said.
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Old 15th Nov 2019, 04:57
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SYD
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Originally Posted by Rated De View Post
Every Battle is won before it is ever fought.

- Sun Tzu

This is won in Operating Revenue impact.
How's all that ancient Chinese miltary strategy working out for BALPA in British AIrways? https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...0-day-20792927
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Old 15th Nov 2019, 05:41
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Originally Posted by Vindiesel View Post
How's all that ancient Chinese miltary strategy working out for BALPA in British AIrways? https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...0-day-20792927
Not having seen the intended deal yet, perhaps BALPA would be the best judge of which element of ancient Chinese military strategy applies.
The BA pilots themselves will either reject or accept the intended offer.

..... If angry, irritate him. If equally matched, fight and if not: split and re-evaluate.
Whether the Sun can be believed a reputable source of information is one thing.
Withdrawal of labour is a big undertaking and the system now is heavily stacked against organised labour.

Fair Work is "fair" in name only.

With CPI under quoting real lived inflation (as the definition excludes many necessities) and the "Accord" held "bargained" outcomes to CPI Real wages have gone only one direction: backwards.

Last edited by Rated De; 15th Nov 2019 at 06:00.
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Old 15th Nov 2019, 06:03
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
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Why has the business allowed itself to get over staffed that it gets to this point? I certainly do not see any fat in the operational areas, in fact, quite the opposite. Operational areas have been cut over many years and are critically understaffed in a lot of areas.
Sounds like you are referring to the basket weavers again. Well, you have to share the pain if cuts are needed. Ask the Airport staff how much pain they have suffered. Ask the Engineers and Ramp as well while you are at it.
QF are heavy in non-operational staff.
What better way to build an empire of adoring subjects, with whom to wave at from the balcony that "invest" heavily in non-revenue generating staff.

The only thing missing at Coward street are big murals to dear "leader" Little Napoleon
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Old 15th Nov 2019, 07:03
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
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Withdrawal of labour is a big undertaking and the system now is heavily stacked against organised labour.

Fair Work is "fair" in name only.

With CPI under quoting real lived inflation (as the definition excludes many necessities) and the "Accord" held "bargained" outcomes to CPI Real wages have gone only one direction: backwards.
Therein lies the problem. PIA is unfortunately tokenism as it can never be any sort of industrial action that can really have an impact. Deciding to launch PIA before any agreement has been reached and with only a portion of the labour force is tokenism taken to a new level. It is more about the politics of showing how tough the union is and reminds me of the displays of a silverback to a rival rather than a call to battle. What is really going on with the Jetstar EBA is a power struggle for the hearts and minds of the pilots. If it was about better conditions and lifestyle balance then there wouldn't be PIA over what is essentially a blankline roster.
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Old 15th Nov 2019, 08:32
  #116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Posts: 634
PIA has no impact? Did you miss the whole Tiger thing? It cost $20 million. They drove management out the door. And I like to think it cost them a Managing Director.



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Old 15th Nov 2019, 10:37
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Australia
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It was just over $10m actually. They didn't drive management out the door...please! Merren's role was dissolved obviously by Paul as part of his leadership team redesign. You now have the ex-GM of Engineering running TT as a...EGM.
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Old 16th Nov 2019, 03:35
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
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T Vasis on the defence again for anyone Management related...

PS spoke to the peeps on the line. They all had one thing to say. Tiger Management is nothing but a bunch of narrow minded delusional clowns. The proof is in the numbers.

Anyway MM has she pissed on outta there yet?
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Old 16th Nov 2019, 04:37
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 379
You make me laugh PoppaJo. Hardly defending the management team. Simply correcting wheels_down. Have to calm emotional sensationalism. Tigerair has been and continues to be, a long-term failure. It has a poor model and poor strategy. And that is the result of more than just 'management'.
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Old 16th Nov 2019, 05:14
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Anyone on here that thinks the financial woes of the ďcompetitionĒ are as a result of pilot conditions is completely uniformed and possibly delusional. Couldnít be further from the truth.

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