737 Type Freeze coming at Qantas: Crew shortage bites?
Arthur D(aley) from Hyperspace - join date Feb'18. Probably not a person with anything more than a bonus at stake to write on these pages.
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That is not correct. The labour agreement that Qantas have applied to Home Affairs for does not cover mainline operations. ie. Does not apply to 737.
Simple, the trainers just refuse to train 457 visa pilots, if that means they all resign from training, that is going to really put the company in a pickle.
Time to man up and protect your future
Time to man up and protect your future
I’ll put it to you Raded De that the only reason cancellations are being discussed at board level is because it effects Canberra and the boards mates. And that’s the 717/ DSh8 primarily . Anything else would be day of operations and wouldn’t make the minor CEO of Qantas let alone the board.
Andrew David can say all he wants but I doubt he can do much about individual awards.
Now what would AIPA agree to? Let me see Network, Jetconnect and 457 visas are on the table....
It’s always been a union for protecting the conditions of the old men on the gravey train.
“Don’t worry son you’ll be senior one day”
For anyone less than 55 that’s the 787 with no overtime no night credits. And the new award each aircraft will now be on.
The gravey train get shorter and shorter each year. As does the overtime of those on it
Andrew David can say all he wants but I doubt he can do much about individual awards.
Now what would AIPA agree to? Let me see Network, Jetconnect and 457 visas are on the table....
It’s always been a union for protecting the conditions of the old men on the gravey train.
“Don’t worry son you’ll be senior one day”
For anyone less than 55 that’s the 787 with no overtime no night credits. And the new award each aircraft will now be on.
The gravey train get shorter and shorter each year. As does the overtime of those on it
Sources stated that the Jetconnect and Network play was aimed at establishing the narrative for direct entry contract 457 737 pilots.
Respectfully we would suggest the nexus is the 'story' they told about Jetconnect and Network. The lack of progress recruiting 'suitable pilots' a cornerstone of their endeavour to expand the visa issue beyond what was initially stated.
What is the connection here that you refer to? You keep mentioning Jet Connect and 457 visas. You do realise that Jet Connect is based in New Zealand and as such will definitely NOT be sourcing pilots on a 457 visa?
Nunc est bibendum
It ain’t five. Closer to three. And that’d be the three equivalent hulls mainline gets back by having Jetconnect pilots fly VH aircraft.
When Jetconnect and Network can’t get enough crew not sure what 457 visas will achieve. They still need to be employed under the same award as currently. That means they join as S/Os. No way would AIPA agree to a variation to permit DE 737 F/O for 457s
When Jetconnect and Network can’t get enough crew not sure what 457 visas will achieve. They still need to be employed under the same award as currently. That means they join as S/Os. No way would AIPA agree to a variation to permit DE 737 F/O for 457s
Maybe this is a good opportunity for QF to get serious about “short” training courses and coming up with some clever ways to utilise the relative Boeing/Airbus experience within the airline.
We all know the Certified Agreements rule the roost, but surely the pilots, AIPA and the Company can come up with a solution which sees more sensible progression. For example, 737 F/Os go to the 787 or hang around for the left seat of the 737, and the Airbus pilots do something like A380 S/O to A330 F/O and stay on that fleet for a command, rather than the ridiculous flow of people from 737 to A330 and A330 to B787. Specifically those two moves are what is really hurting the company right how.
We all know the Certified Agreements rule the roost, but surely the pilots, AIPA and the Company can come up with a solution which sees more sensible progression. For example, 737 F/Os go to the 787 or hang around for the left seat of the 737, and the Airbus pilots do something like A380 S/O to A330 F/O and stay on that fleet for a command, rather than the ridiculous flow of people from 737 to A330 and A330 to B787. Specifically those two moves are what is really hurting the company right how.
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Plenty of talk of jetconnect crewing Bne-Pom (as a start) despite the stated words in late 17 that j/c would only crew the Tasman (but apparently no assurances.....)
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Maybe this is a good opportunity for QF to get serious about “short” training courses and coming up with some clever ways to utilise the relative Boeing/Airbus experience within the airline.
We all know the Certified Agreements rule the roost, but surely the pilots, AIPA and the Company can come up with a solution which sees more sensible progression. For example, 737 F/Os go to the 787 or hang around for the left seat of the 737, and the Airbus pilots do something like A380 S/O to A330 F/O and stay on that fleet for a command, rather than the ridiculous flow of people from 737 to A330 and A330 to B787. Specifically those two moves are what is really hurting the company right how.
We all know the Certified Agreements rule the roost, but surely the pilots, AIPA and the Company can come up with a solution which sees more sensible progression. For example, 737 F/Os go to the 787 or hang around for the left seat of the 737, and the Airbus pilots do something like A380 S/O to A330 F/O and stay on that fleet for a command, rather than the ridiculous flow of people from 737 to A330 and A330 to B787. Specifically those two moves are what is really hurting the company right how.
This would have to be paid for of course!
This is going to be a fun year with 2 EBAs.
How about QF actually have realistic hiring criteria. There are plenty of experienced, able, competent & qualified drivers getting a thanks but no thanks from Qantas. Skywest doesn't seem to have problems hiring Aussies with just a resume and a skype interview, and they are many many times bigger than QF. Flying in weather and airspace we can only dream of down here in the sheltered workshop of Oz. I predict a whole lot won't ever come back from the USA. It seems like even the Boeing Chief Pilot or Chuck Yeager would have a 50/50 chance of a knockback from QF.
One change to make a cost difference in training.
In UK some airlines pay is tied to seniority not aircraft type. i.e.
A pilot with 10 year Company seniority on an A320, gets the same basic pay as someone with 10 year seniority on the A380. Flying hour pay and allowances can make a difference, with LH flying usually paying more.
The system allows a pilot who wishes to stay in the Short haul lifestyle not having to bid for LH to get the higher pay from a bigger aircraft type.. It also saves the Company multiple Type Rating courses as people move from fleet to fleet.
From a previous post, I'm amazed that a QF S/O on LH types, making no decisions and never flying the aircraft, gets paid more than a B737 FO on two pilot ops.
In UK some airlines pay is tied to seniority not aircraft type. i.e.
A pilot with 10 year Company seniority on an A320, gets the same basic pay as someone with 10 year seniority on the A380. Flying hour pay and allowances can make a difference, with LH flying usually paying more.
The system allows a pilot who wishes to stay in the Short haul lifestyle not having to bid for LH to get the higher pay from a bigger aircraft type.. It also saves the Company multiple Type Rating courses as people move from fleet to fleet.
From a previous post, I'm amazed that a QF S/O on LH types, making no decisions and never flying the aircraft, gets paid more than a B737 FO on two pilot ops.
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The mail I’m getting is that they are also going to go for 457 visas for direct entry 737 FOs. They just don’t get it, fix the short haul contract and the training will drop. I’m also hearing 6 787s coming from October 2019 thru to April 2020 at which point all the 747s will go. All this will do of course will make the training problem worse. I believe Joyce met AIPA on Wednesday, what was discussed I do not know.
And no, that can’t freeze 737 pilots
Presumably later this year, when more 787s arrive, and they pay off a bunch of 747s...there will be another RIN. I wonder if any of those newly minted 787 pilots will lose their slots to the displaced 747 people.
None of this would be happening if QF had a reasonable recruitment system, and took a few pilots every year, instead of turning the spigot on and off every decade or so.
None of this would be happening if QF had a reasonable recruitment system, and took a few pilots every year, instead of turning the spigot on and off every decade or so.
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Presumably later this year, when more 787s arrive, and they pay off a bunch of 747s...there will be another RIN. I wonder if any of those newly minted 787 pilots will lose their slots to the displaced 747 people.
None of this would be happening if QF had a reasonable recruitment system, and took a few pilots every year, instead of turning the spigot on and off every decade or so.
None of this would be happening if QF had a reasonable recruitment system, and took a few pilots every year, instead of turning the spigot on and off every decade or so.
MDC for the B737 please.
No disrespect, but if Mr Yeager didn’t have a 99% likelihood of a knockback, then QF would really have to reconsider its selection criteria. Also, he’s 95, so would have to join as a direct entry FO on the 737.
I'm probably glad that my time is just about up.
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They don't RIN from the top, but from the bottom. And you need to be RINned to be able to displace. So, yes, some can displace to the 380, but not a lot. On the other hand, pretty well all (from 747 and 380) could displace to the 787.
I'm probably glad that my time is just about up.
I'm probably glad that my time is just about up.
I am happy for you that your time is up, because you can get before this mob totally destroy the place. Cheers.
It seems like even the Boeing Chief Pilot or Chuck Yeager would have a 50/50 chance of a knockback from QF.
Nunc est bibendum
To the original premise by Rated De. Freezing pilots on the 737 doesn’t help with crewing the A330, 787, and A380 vacancies that exist. Those vacancies (and there are lots of them) still need to be filled. The crewing shortages are almost as bad on the A330 in any case.