737 Type Freeze coming at Qantas: Crew shortage bites?
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QF crew on LWOP have only had DEC with Jetstar, based on seniority on the LOA. How much money did they save the Company in terms of not having to retrench Pilots? I can only imagine how many a/c would be parked against the fence if management in their wisdom had retrenched approximately 250-odd crew.
No-one in the ME3 will return based on current terms and conditions, and they are not naive enough to know QF, unless they start a fleet replacement yesterday, will be in financial hurt they will be in in 3-5 years time 9if we exist at all)..... Oh look, oil price is heading upwards.....
Last edited by Street garbage; 20th Apr 2018 at 03:55.
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3 lies for the price of one...what a load of crap.
QF crew on LWOP have only had DEC with Jetstar, based on seniority on the LOA. How much money did they save the Company in terms of not having to retrench Pilots? I can only imagine how many a/c would be parked against the fence if management in their wisdom had retrenched approximately 250-odd crew.
No-one in the ME3 will return based on current terms and conditions, and they are not naive enough to know QF, unless they start a fleet replacement yesterday, will be in financial hurt they will be in in 3-5 years time 9if we exist at all)..... Oh look, oil price is heading upwards.....
QF crew on LWOP have only had DEC with Jetstar, based on seniority on the LOA. How much money did they save the Company in terms of not having to retrench Pilots? I can only imagine how many a/c would be parked against the fence if management in their wisdom had retrenched approximately 250-odd crew.
No-one in the ME3 will return based on current terms and conditions, and they are not naive enough to know QF, unless they start a fleet replacement yesterday, will be in financial hurt they will be in in 3-5 years time 9if we exist at all)..... Oh look, oil price is heading upwards.....
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Eagerness to see my industry colleagues in distress my ass. How is that industrial distress?
You all want Qantas to compete in the free market but god forbid any mention about a free labour market.
morno
If you want a 'real' 'free market' in pilot labour, you would have to abolish all work visas and you would have to have one global license accepted by all nations. Which now means you are competing with people who will be more than happy to move here with their extended family from all corners of the globe.
But I don't think you are interested in competing in that sort of free market you just want to abolish seniority and cut the grass of the FOs.
But I don't think you are interested in competing in that sort of free market you just want to abolish seniority and cut the grass of the FOs.
How many F/Os in the “ME3” have 10-15k hours total and 5k hours on type? Yeah didn’t think so...you and Morno can keep dreaming. It’s called a legacy carrier for a reason. No need for mercenaries here thanks very much.
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I was told the reason why no more 787’s were coming in the near term was because of FIRS16 accounting rules and Qantas is busy paying out all of Jetstar’s financial alchemy inspired leasing arrangements in order to be compliant prior to next financial year . Only so much cash flow available apparently ?
Should be interesting to see how different sections of the group are portrayed as the financials transition from GFR to FIRS Standards.
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 20th Apr 2018 at 14:13.
I was told the reason why no more 787’s were coming in the near term was because of FIRS16 accounting rules and Qantas is busy paying out all of Jetstar’s financial alchemy inspired leasing arrangements in order to be compliant prior to next financial year . Only so much cash flow available apparently ?
Should be interesting to see how different sections of the group are portrayed as the financials transition from GFR to FIRS Standards.
Should be interesting to see how different sections of the group are portrayed as the financials transition from GFR to FIRS Standards.
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I was told the reason why no more 787’s were coming in the near term was because of FIRS16 accounting rules and Qantas is busy paying out all of Jetstar’s financial alchemy inspired leasing arrangements in order to be compliant prior to next financial year . Only so much cash flow available apparently ?
Should be interesting to see how different sections of the group are portrayed as the financials transition from GFR to FIRS Standards.
Should be interesting to see how different sections of the group are portrayed as the financials transition from GFR to FIRS Standards.
Operating leases previously have given a dubious benefit of implied ownership on balance sheet, without the corresponding liability of the capitalised lease amount or indeed debt. The change to the standard requires the 'asset' to be 'balanced' against the debt supporting it. Further there is a requirement that the asset be reported where the benefit accrues. This is a big concern for Low Far Airlines like Jetstar. Qantas has in the past been reasonably consistent with the capitalisation of leases, the activity reported by other posters suggestive of a change in policy. ( A change ruled out under the rule change)
Further it would appear that the company is now beavering to establish the narrative and extend the grasp of the skilled shortage 457 Visa potential. The 'stream leader' and the cohort will be active in their pursuits to preserve the Qantas labour unit cost.
Qantas management will thus likely consider all kabuki theatre necessary to demonstrate the 'severity of the shortage' The shortage can be solved, for all markets clear at a price. Qantas will do everything to not increase remuneration.
- Pushing Q400 against the fence provides a nice optic.
- Regional flight cancellations allow the company to use their implied public service obligations to access elements of Essential Services Act 1988 No 41 Part 4 (Preliminary)
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At the risk of being labelled a pilot-shortage-sceptic, I believe that, before any genuine widespread pilot shortage develops in Australia, various levers remain to be pulled by governments and employers to stave off any such shortage – especially in a country such as Australia, which remains an attractive destination for many overseas qualified and experienced professionals.(our emphasis)
While AIPA has previously fought very successfully against the use of 457 Visa programs for pilots and always will, there is no guarantee such schemes will never be exploited.
While AIPA has previously fought very successfully against the use of 457 Visa programs for pilots and always will, there is no guarantee such schemes will never be exploited.
These are the thoughts of the current manager. Before rushing to an admirable defence, could it be possible that the 'levers' referred to above are in fact the levers including skilled shortage visas and crew freezes that the 'stream lead' is responsible for pulling, albeit now for management in 'order to stave off' a structural shortage?
Cognitive dissonance is a horrible affliction.
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Rated De, you painted a scenario on the other thread (QantasLink Crewing Crisis) whereby you predicted the potential for 457 visas to be extended to cover 737 mainline. Let’s explore that here (it would be thread drift on the other thread).
Background: Because Qantas has always insisted on maintaining a separate workplace agreement for mainline 737 pilots (despite various approaches from AIPA in the past to combine the agreements), the negative side-effect for Qantas is that they cannot legally force LH pilots onto the 737. That pesky FWA gets in the way. And, as I understand it, they cannot recruit directly to the 737 due to the Integration Award.
The disparity in pay and conditions make the 737 an undesirable promotion for many LH pilots. Indeed, most LH pilots on 4-engine fleets endure a pay cut to promote to the 737 - extra stripe, less pay.
Despite this, historically, sufficient pilot numbers have always applied - presumably those who put career, responsibility and job satisfaction above money. The negative side effect for pilots is that Qantas haven’t seen a need to improve pay and conditions on the 737. (The positive side effect for pilots is that in general the only pilots on the fleet are those who actually want to be there, which makes it a really happy place to be - but I digress...)
So, to date, the 737 has not had an internal supply shortage. The current 737 crewing shortage is actually due to lack of planning and lack of training resources (caused purely by extremely poor higher level management, having ignored repeated requests and warnings from lower level management. I wish they were somehow accountable for that, but it seems that’s not how big business works - I digress again...).
Looking at the demographics and seniority of the internal 737 pilot supply, it’s getting close to the point where one could forsee the potential for the supply to dry up internally. I’m only talking about F/O’s here - in Qantas, it goes without question that there will always be sufficient internal supply for Captains.
So, Rated De, would that open the door for 457 visas for Qantas mainline 737 pilots? No, it wouldn’t.
It would be just an internal crewing problem that Qantas would need to sort out with the FWA and AIPA.
If they become unable to crew 737 mainline F/O internally, then they would just need to negotiate with the relevant parties how to introduce DE 737 F/O. As long as they are the highest paying narrow-body airline in Australia, how could that supply ever dry up?
Background: Because Qantas has always insisted on maintaining a separate workplace agreement for mainline 737 pilots (despite various approaches from AIPA in the past to combine the agreements), the negative side-effect for Qantas is that they cannot legally force LH pilots onto the 737. That pesky FWA gets in the way. And, as I understand it, they cannot recruit directly to the 737 due to the Integration Award.
The disparity in pay and conditions make the 737 an undesirable promotion for many LH pilots. Indeed, most LH pilots on 4-engine fleets endure a pay cut to promote to the 737 - extra stripe, less pay.
Despite this, historically, sufficient pilot numbers have always applied - presumably those who put career, responsibility and job satisfaction above money. The negative side effect for pilots is that Qantas haven’t seen a need to improve pay and conditions on the 737. (The positive side effect for pilots is that in general the only pilots on the fleet are those who actually want to be there, which makes it a really happy place to be - but I digress...)
So, to date, the 737 has not had an internal supply shortage. The current 737 crewing shortage is actually due to lack of planning and lack of training resources (caused purely by extremely poor higher level management, having ignored repeated requests and warnings from lower level management. I wish they were somehow accountable for that, but it seems that’s not how big business works - I digress again...).
Looking at the demographics and seniority of the internal 737 pilot supply, it’s getting close to the point where one could forsee the potential for the supply to dry up internally. I’m only talking about F/O’s here - in Qantas, it goes without question that there will always be sufficient internal supply for Captains.
So, Rated De, would that open the door for 457 visas for Qantas mainline 737 pilots? No, it wouldn’t.
It would be just an internal crewing problem that Qantas would need to sort out with the FWA and AIPA.
If they become unable to crew 737 mainline F/O internally, then they would just need to negotiate with the relevant parties how to introduce DE 737 F/O. As long as they are the highest paying narrow-body airline in Australia, how could that supply ever dry up?
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As was emailed to us today.
These are the thoughts of the current manager. Before rushing to an admirable defence, could it be possible that the 'levers' referred to above are in fact the levers including skilled shortage visas and crew freezes that the 'stream lead' is responsible for pulling, albeit now for management in 'order to stave off' a structural shortage?
Cognitive dissonance is a horrible affliction.
These are the thoughts of the current manager. Before rushing to an admirable defence, could it be possible that the 'levers' referred to above are in fact the levers including skilled shortage visas and crew freezes that the 'stream lead' is responsible for pulling, albeit now for management in 'order to stave off' a structural shortage?
Cognitive dissonance is a horrible affliction.
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