Qantas Recruitment
The answer to your question is self evident. Qantas mainline is the proverbial one eyed man in the land of the blind. A big fish in a tiny monopoly, masquerading as an airline industry. A pilot group that lifted the shirt, licked the ring and voted in a B scale for new joiners. Terrified by empty threats centered around an aircraft that doesn’t even exist yet. Pilots apply to Qantas because it’s the lesser of two evils. An outsourced, poorly paid, whipsaw subsidiary. Or a deeply average set of terms and conditions at mainline.
Your schadenfreude is showing,
Your schadenfreude is showing,
It was dead wood if it wasn't for covid
The following 4 users liked this post by maggot:
Still yet to find one in the wild though. It would appear that people who voted up the EBA are like greens voters - they obviously exist but you never seem to meet one.
The following 5 users liked this post by Parrot Pilot:
Back pay is quite useful when you’ve got an indefinite stand down letter in your hand? Context is important when reviewing the outcomes of prior votes.
Leaving it unresolved at that time would’ve left it wide open for unscrupulous opportunistic variations. The outcomes may have been significantly worse than what transpired.
Leaving it unresolved at that time would’ve left it wide open for unscrupulous opportunistic variations. The outcomes may have been significantly worse than what transpired.
Look around;
Jetstar with 80 jets
Network with 15 jets
JetConnect With 6 jets
Alliance contracted for ~26 jets
NJS with 29 jet on order.
All these planes, flying routes we used to fly, (even wearing our uniform and livery half the time) but Qantas set up or bought these entities to do it without us. And they had no problem hiring the hundreds and hundreds of pilots to do it.
So you can tell me Qantas were bluffing when they explicitly told us they would have other pilots fly the A350’s if we didn’t vote Yes? That was going to be the one time they actually didn’t sideline us (despite being crystal clear they would).
Then imagine how many new S/O’s would be hired onto any LH contract if the A350 was not flown by mainline, especially given it is the replacement for 50% of the LH fleet.
Yeah, the new S/O rate is **** but it lasts only as long as you’re an S/O (it’s actually a pay rise for the first 18 months) and that may only be a day currently. But given the existential threat to mainline LH, the fact that PIA was not even an option as we were ALL stood down indefinitely and no one knew if there would even be a paycheck in the next 2 years, the pilots were placed into an impossible situation where we had to eat one of 2 **** sandwiches which would effect future pilots for years to come.
I will admit I voted yes and I have admitted it to all the new S/O’s I fly with and have explained the circumstances.
If the outcome was so terrible then I don’t know how we still have so many people applying for these positions. Perhaps they see the pay and conditions secured where they will spend the majority of their career and may one day understand the reason we did what we did.
The following 7 users liked this post by Beer Baron:
Also: the airline had just ground to a halt, with virtually no revenue coming in and an uncertain future. A lot of people were expecting Qantas to try and cancel the vote and offer up something much worse. Under the circumstances, we were pretty happy to take what was still on offer.
The following 3 users liked this post by itsnotthatbloodyhard:
Network with 15 jets. Keep counting brother. Your maths doesn’t pass grade 3.
The days of SO earning 300k$ are gone. Move on. Take a promotion. Get back to long haul and life is good.
The reason qantas has so many applicants ain’t the conditions. It’s a life in Australia. Beaches, mates, family, somewhere for kids to grow up. Parents eventually dying. Face facts. This job sucks at times. 24 hours in a hotel. Red eye flights.
I sympathise with the subsidiaries. A much harder life on less money and a crapload more difficult job. The guys/girls/thems on the maggot work hard under a **** award. But it’s home. Family. Loved ones.
Pilots are extremely selfish. Myself included. We always complain. But how long does flying the biggest jet count?
We dedicated a lot to do this. How much has any company dedicated to their staff. We are a utility/commodity. I treat them the same. Turn the phone off and go for a swim or surf.
work isn’t everything
Personally I’m still waiting for the 3 day Tahiti/ Hawaii where I’m not trying to recover from the endless nights awake be it from kids/ fatigue/jet lag.
i wish everyone the best
The days of SO earning 300k$ are gone. Move on. Take a promotion. Get back to long haul and life is good.
The reason qantas has so many applicants ain’t the conditions. It’s a life in Australia. Beaches, mates, family, somewhere for kids to grow up. Parents eventually dying. Face facts. This job sucks at times. 24 hours in a hotel. Red eye flights.
I sympathise with the subsidiaries. A much harder life on less money and a crapload more difficult job. The guys/girls/thems on the maggot work hard under a **** award. But it’s home. Family. Loved ones.
Pilots are extremely selfish. Myself included. We always complain. But how long does flying the biggest jet count?
We dedicated a lot to do this. How much has any company dedicated to their staff. We are a utility/commodity. I treat them the same. Turn the phone off and go for a swim or surf.
work isn’t everything
Personally I’m still waiting for the 3 day Tahiti/ Hawaii where I’m not trying to recover from the endless nights awake be it from kids/ fatigue/jet lag.
i wish everyone the best
The following users liked this post:
It’s about comprehension not maths, ‘brother’.
The SO rate was also reduced to try and stem the flow of the subsidiaries into mainline.
Almost poetic - the lower SO pay is directly due to the growth of the subsidiaries as Beer Baron explained, and yet most of the complaints I’ve heard are from the same group as they come across.
Not their fault by any means, they’re victims of the QF IR system.
Almost poetic - the lower SO pay is directly due to the growth of the subsidiaries as Beer Baron explained, and yet most of the complaints I’ve heard are from the same group as they come across.
Not their fault by any means, they’re victims of the QF IR system.
The SO rate was reduced to end the back seater for life role and make a move to SH a necessity to make up for the now lost pay.
You don't need a new payscale to stem the flow of subsidiaries into mainline, those brakes are and always have been applied regardless of enthusiasm levels.
The following 2 users liked this post by Lapon:
Yep, never seen an F100 on Kal, KTA, PHE, BME, even DRW ASP when it was the abortion everyone said it would be. Good maths, brother !
You are wrong there. It was no shadow, it was 20 years of Qantas replacing us with cheaper labour.
Look around;
Jetstar with 80 jets
Network with 15 jets
JetConnect With 6 jets
Alliance contracted for ~26 jets
NJS with 29 jet on order.
All these planes, flying routes we used to fly, (even wearing our uniform and livery half the time) but Qantas set up or bought these entities to do it without us
Look around;
Jetstar with 80 jets
Network with 15 jets
JetConnect With 6 jets
Alliance contracted for ~26 jets
NJS with 29 jet on order.
All these planes, flying routes we used to fly, (even wearing our uniform and livery half the time) but Qantas set up or bought these entities to do it without us
If Alliance (and to an extent NJS 717s) have picked up sectors from a 737, then cleary a 737 isn't the machine for it and I doubt those sectors would otherwise exists.
To suggest mainline would have ooperated 100 seat regional jets on the same EBA as a 737 requires a heck of an imagination.
I stand to be corrected but Jetconnect don't 'have' thier own aircraft anymore either.
Jetstar is closest you could claim as having 'taken' a number routes, but again I'd argue a fair portion of of that flying wouldn't otherwise exist in anywhere but the LCC space.
Like it or not the white hat isn't 'our' uniform, its a Qantas group uniform - SH, LH, Sunnies, Easterns, NJS, Network. That Alliance wear it too does little to change the price of bread.
The following users liked this post:
This is all a moot discussion. You can go on all day long about what should have happened in the past, but the thread is about Qantas (mainline) recruiting in the present. Where they are actively hiring the largest number of new recruits in their history at an unprecedented rate, and internal training and promotion is at an unprecedented rate with each training year setting new records. And that’s without the A321 and A350 training vacancies published yet. When they are published the vacancies will spike by 50% over already record numbers.
The following 4 users liked this post by dr dre:
Jesus, some people refuse to see the point of a post and only want to argue over minutiae. One of you insists I count F100’s and the other says I’m crazy to consider 100 seat regional aircraft, you decide amongst yourselves.
As for JetConnect, yes, now they fly from the same pool of aircraft on the mainline AOC but on much worse conditions. Is that less of a threat to mainline jobs or possibly much worse??
The point is, flying was going everywhere BUT mainline. It wasn’t in our imagination. We didn’t hire a new S/O for 7 years. The last LHEA was just the first time they had explicitly told us that they would continue to wipe us out if we didn’t comply. The previous 2 decades experience showed it was no idle threat.
As for JetConnect, yes, now they fly from the same pool of aircraft on the mainline AOC but on much worse conditions. Is that less of a threat to mainline jobs or possibly much worse??
The point is, flying was going everywhere BUT mainline. It wasn’t in our imagination. We didn’t hire a new S/O for 7 years. The last LHEA was just the first time they had explicitly told us that they would continue to wipe us out if we didn’t comply. The previous 2 decades experience showed it was no idle threat.
The following 8 users liked this post by Beer Baron:
Water under the bridge and the passing of time the then International CEO has been onboard many flights.The recount of the interactions had were such an ASX release was ready to go had the vote gone down for Sunrise.
This is verified by discussion with other managers at the time. It was no idle threat. Two asx releases were ready to go. The one we saw, and the other one announcing a new subsidiary. In spite of any legal challenges or whatever else that may have arisen to try and fight it, Alan Joyce was not bluffing. The international/widebody version of network/njs was on the cards.
Just as everyone was being stood down… no chance of effective PIA to fight it, no likelihood of sympathy from courts and governments who were wrapped up in other business at the time.
Many say they can’t believe qantas proceeded with the vote at the time. I reckon management couldn’t believe their luck! They certainly wouldn’t get away with it now.
Last edited by ExtraShot; 22nd Mar 2024 at 01:48.
I was openly voicing my disdain at the time. Everyone was scared of jobs being outsourced.
Empty threats as usual…we always fall for it.
AIPA should be actively looking to abolish any B or C scale. They need to grow a spine
This is verified by discussion with other managers at the time. It was no idle threat. Two asx releases were ready to go. The one we saw, and the other one announcing a new subsidiary. In spite of any legal challenges or whatever else that may have arisen to try and fight it, Alan Joyce was not bluffing. The international/widebody version of network/njs was on the cards.
Just as everyone was being stood down… no chance of effective PIA to fight it, no likelihood of sympathy from courts and governments who were wrapped up in other business at the time.
Many say they can’t believe qantas proceeded with the vote at the time. I reckon management couldn’t believe their luck! They certainly wouldn’t get away with it now.
Just as everyone was being stood down… no chance of effective PIA to fight it, no likelihood of sympathy from courts and governments who were wrapped up in other business at the time.
Many say they can’t believe qantas proceeded with the vote at the time. I reckon management couldn’t believe their luck! They certainly wouldn’t get away with it now.
just sewing doubt in pilot's minds for future votes.
there is very specific rules against this sort of business behaviour, and was absolutely in place at the time.
Unfortunately not crap at all.
Sunrise , as proposed, was not ‘existing business’…. Some may remember One senior manager being reigned in and ‘disappeared’ rather quickly after he had suggested the 350 was also a potential 380 replacement…
they already had experience with Jetconnect, network, njs gaining work , uniforms, products, etc qantas had for years. There was obviously advice they’d get away with it.
Ofcourse if it’s ‘crap’ you can quote said law, and any case that had set a precedent to support the fight?
And suppose you wanted to fight it, good luck taking that through the courts at that time.
The following users liked this post:
19 March 2020: Alan Joyce announced they would stand down 20,000 staff.
20 March 2020: LHEA voting opens
21 March 2020: Received Stand Down notification
Good luck holding PIA when you don’t have a job to attend.
As for your suggestion of legal protections, equally fanciful.
The following 4 users liked this post by Beer Baron: