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300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???

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300 Qantas pilots to get the chop ???

Old 15th May 2014, 13:17
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I can also say with 100% reliability that dozens of A330 S/O's are struggling to top 80k after 6 years service
Sorry, I don't mean to detract from the aim of your post (the over exaggeration of
QF t's and C's), of which I agree, but a deliberate bending of the truth only weakens the argument.

A 6 year 330 S/O on MGH should be on a base of around 120k unless they are on a flex line.

Last edited by h.o.t.a.s.; 16th May 2014 at 14:07.
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Old 15th May 2014, 13:23
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
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My best mate is a 330 SO.

172k last year.

He said why would he go to Jetstar when he earns almost what a Jetstar captain earns.

I hope his gamble pays off.
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Old 15th May 2014, 13:30
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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To divert this thread back to the original question:

On the internal QF pilot message board, the AIPA president implied that the 300 figure was incorrect and not to place any weight on that article.

That number (300) seems to have not appeared in any other media articles since then
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Old 15th May 2014, 14:13
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
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I know everyone loves to bang on about how employee wages are breaking the bank etc but seriously have you considered the company line (repeated continuously) has sucked you in? Conservative tech crew cost for an airline is 4%, everyone could take a 50% pay cut and in this case QF would still be making a loss. Maybe everyone should acknowledge the real reasons for the loss and stop taking it out on other pilot groups. Complaints blaming one group for a pay freeze are a joke, SH made a profit (substantially more than j* or any other group airline) and are also included in the freeze. It could also be argued that different investment strategies (possibly less orange ones) could have lead to a better financial position and possible pay increases for all. Management needs to be the focus.
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Old 15th May 2014, 14:20
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Weltschmerz-By-The-Sea, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 826
Ballsdeep, I am shocked! Shocked, I say, to discover that someone actually gave an immature tw*t like you a job flying a jet. I shudder to think of what our many non-pilot members think when they read your A: username. And your B: location. Followed by your C: idiotic invective based on wanting others to fail in order to make your own sorry path seem less miserable.

Why don't you ask your mum what she thinks of your nom-de-plume?

There is a reason employers like QF have a psych test for applicants. That would likely be the same reason you spent eight years in GA/regional

Kindly tell us who employs you so that I may ensure that my loved ones never set foot on one of your planes.

Last edited by Australopithecus; 15th May 2014 at 15:24.
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Old 15th May 2014, 20:00
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Or, the top 300 have been there the longest and help to made the QF reputation what it is today, ( management have recently trashed that reputation, BUT QF is STILL regarded as extremely safe by just about everyone), they deserve the right to complete their careers as they see fit.

The younger ones have the rest of their lives left to make their mark and should get off their computers and attempt to make the world a better place not rely on the legacy of their fathers, but do something themselves.

To a degree its the "ballsdeep" of the world's race to the left seat of a shiny jet and accepting any terms on offer thats creating the issue we are faced with. No i'm not 60 or even close!

I feel very comfortable sitting behind a Captain that has a few grey hairs and hope they stay as long as they chose. I don't feel comfortable leaving the flight deck with some of the young F/O's that are coming along.
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Old 15th May 2014, 20:58
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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"Officially" 100 to go, some quoting up to 300. Here's a few questions.

How many pilots are employed on the 744/767 fleets?

What expansion across other fleets will there be to take up the slack left from these type retirements?

If there is an expansion of sorts, how many additional drivers (above those on type at the moment) will be required?

How many pilots left over when the dust settles?

Seems like simple arithmetic to me. Assuming the clowns running the show persist with their ultimate plan.
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Old 15th May 2014, 21:04
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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ballsdeep
Your "path has been far from sorry" so why don't you practice what you preach, give a young GA pilot a start and retire...or ain't you ready to retire yet.
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Old 15th May 2014, 21:27
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Krusty, there certainly will be no expansion of the 380 fleet.
There are 12 380's with a crew compliment for 14 due to Alan's
amazing last minute idea to can numbers 13 & 14.

The life boats are full.
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Old 15th May 2014, 22:09
  #50 (permalink)  
Keg

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fish

Kristy, about 150 767 pilots and 260 747 Captains and F/Os. The 744 is about 150 crew over stocked for when they end pup at 9 aeroplanes in mid 2016.

There are still 7-9 A330s to come and a few (4-5) 737s.

As for ballsdeep and BNEA320.....
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Old 15th May 2014, 22:18
  #51 (permalink)  
XPT
 
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wake up & smell the roses !!!

boy oh boy, how many people here are in denial ?


The country is worse than broke, most state are worse than broke & so is QF INT.


QF has far too many staff & they are all paid way over the odds, with fare too many benefits, which is why QF INT is stuffed.


Not competitive at all, on the world stage.


The whole travel industry is just waiting for the day that QF INT stops flying.


Most of the public believe the media as well.
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Old 15th May 2014, 22:29
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Keg, you forgot to add in the approx I think 200 on LWOP. Also nearly all ranks on all aircraft are operating to a 160 hour divisor meaning that another 10% of the pilots are really surplus to requirements as we can work to 175 and occasionally 180 hour divisor. If the company is serious about reducing and hiding staff that would mean theoretically another 200 surplus. Very ugly. On another note I see in the March traffic figures that frequent flyer redemptions increased year on year by 10%. I wonder if that's why Joyce has pulled his head in as it was panicking people to redeem points thereby costing the company more money.
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Old 15th May 2014, 22:40
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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QF has far too many staff & they are all paid way over the odds, with fare too many benefits, which is why QF INT is stuffed.

Not competitive at all, on the world stage.

The whole travel industry is just waiting for the day that QF INT stops flying.
QF has far too many staff because it doesn't have any aircraft left because of totally insane and incompetent 'management'.

QF was competitive but it doesn't have any routes left because of totally insane and incompetent 'management'.

The whole travel industry doesn't care about QF (or any airline) but QF particularly because it doesn't fly anywhere because of totally insane and incompetent 'management'.

Most of the public believe the media as well.
The media are simply reprinting the rubbish fed to them by the most incompetent and totally insane 'management team' since ENRON declared they were the smartest guys in the room. The public know no better, but I would expect most people reading this forum to have a basic understanding of business and airlines. Qantas, in a brilliant strategic move, essentially just gave their international business to Emirates, and Emirates are 'very pleased' with the results. I would hope the idiot Irishman Elaine has a big fat Obeid sized payoff from the Arabs sitting in an offshore account somewhere for that generous gift, because if he doesn't, he is even more stupid (and I am struggling with this) than I already thought he was.

An airline is a business that moves passengers from A-B using aircraft. If you don't have any aircraft you are no longer an airline but a travel agent.

To quote Mr Gekko: 'If these guys ran a funeral parlour, no one would die!'
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Old 15th May 2014, 22:45
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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The thing is that the VR will be targeted at getting the top 100 seniority pilots off the 747 / 767 fleets. The balance that the company has to strike now is a package that is financially good enough to encourage them to leave. When British Airways called for VR in 2009 the package they put on the table was one months pay for each year of service capped at 24 months (2 years). They also allowed you to keep staff travel for the same amount of time you had been in the company, so if you were a 25 year veteran you would get staff travel for 25 years

BA wanted 150 pilots to take VR and opened it up to EVERY pilot, most guys thought the top 150 would jump at this offer especially since they had expected to retire at 55 and only the year before were allowed to work until 65. When all was said and done ONLY 78 pilots accepted VR and some 10% of those were 'junior' pilots. The lesson learned was that there is much more at play with these decisions than pure money. Has anyone thought that the top guys may just actually really enjoy their work and no amount of money would convince them to give it up?

A call for the older guys/girls to move aside for the younger generation is 'not on' in my opinion. Everyone joined knowing that seniority is king. The opportunity for VR may actually be attractive for say a junior FO on the 767 or 747 fleet who may have something else in the pipe line and will gladly take the money and run.
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Old 15th May 2014, 22:56
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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I will say however, no agreement / EBA these days of guaranteed last on - first off / strict seniority etc, means much these days. Companies can easily go to FWA (particularly when in hardship and losing hundreds of millions)
This worries me too - we have already seen Qantas ground the airline and go to the FWC to have totally legal protected industrial action set aside.

I'm just wondering if the VR isn't subscribed to their satisfaction that their next step isn't to the FWC.
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Old 15th May 2014, 23:02
  #56 (permalink)  
Keg

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Sure dragon man. Krusty asked for current numbers, those are the current numbers. Of those on LWOP outside if the QF group, I can't see many coming back. That's about half of them.
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Old 15th May 2014, 23:06
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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"The opportunity for VR may actually be attractive for say a junior FO on the 767 or 747 fleet who may have something else in the pipe line and will gladly take the money and run."

Well said Ollie Onion, I would even go a step further and say that this may actually be the group targeted for VR. It's a pretty good windfall if you were already thinking about EQ for example and now could go with a wad of cash in your skyrocket.

Something for the older generation to think about is the VR process. From other areas in the company, just because you express interest in VR doesn't mean you get offered it. From the companies perspective I am sure it is cheaper to pay VR to a junior member and just wait for the 64yo to retire. Two numbers down with one payout.
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Old 15th May 2014, 23:15
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oz
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I don't know that the company will be heading off to the FWA. Can you project forward to the future, pilots putting off promotion from say a modern fleet to the next dying fleet because they don't want to get 'caught' on the dying fleet, only to be made redundant? Then what? Assign pilots promotion only to be made redundant? If they were to go down this path it would be legal action all around and the resulting publicity would be awful.


Then again, when has AJ worried about bad publicity?
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Old 15th May 2014, 23:28
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Ollie - great post and thanks for the BA VR background.

I agree 100%, THAT VR package would probably get results, much below that and I think the attitude will be 'I don't give a toss, you've wrecked my job and airline, I'll enjoy what I can until I have to turn out the lights.'
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Old 16th May 2014, 00:23
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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From the trolls on this forum like small balls through to the QF experts like Keg, no one knows what VR will be on offer and how many may be forced to go with CR ( none hopefully). The company will allocate a pool of money for VR and it will be divided up so as to try and attract the most takers (not 2 years pay and not 6 months, somewhere around a year is my guess). Personal circumstances will decide whether VR is acceptable or not to an individual.

Keg may correct me but the number of airframes remain about the same as now if all the A330s return and the 73s on order arrive. This will mean a shuffling of the deck chairs as some learn French and others move to the maggot, unfortunately there will be demotions along the way which is a great pity as there are very good people in QF who are affected
by all this uncertainty and who are great operators despite what the trolls on this forum have to say. JMHO
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